Topic: what the heck are "SBE's"??

[RedDawg]

I posted a show on the Archive yesterday and got this review....

I'm normally not an AKG fan but the sound but this one sounds really nice. There are SBE's on almost every track but that's another issue...


Can someone tell me what SBE stands for??

By the way, if you want to check out some Hookah...GET YOU SOME...2 set is on fire.

www.archive.org/details/eh2007-04-13.eh2007-04-13.aud.flac16

[jkbyram]

sector boundry errors.

[RedDawg]

sector boundry errors.

please excused my stupidity....but what is that??  And how do I fix it.  I think the show sounded pretty good, not great, but good.

[jkbyram]

basically the tracks were not split exactly on sector boundries, it looks like you used cdwave to track which does split on sector boundries. not sure why you have em. if you did any editing with audition or wavelab sbe can be present. they can be fixed. i use traders little helper.


get it here: http://thor.prohosting.com/roh0205/

[pmonk66]

sector boundry errors.

please excused my stupidity....but what is that??  And how do I fix it.  I think the show sounded pretty good, not great, but good.

You will only hear SBE's when you burn the file onto a CD-R, then you will hear a index click between the tracks were the SBE are!

[RedDawg]

so basically its the "clicking" noise between tracks.  If I run Trader's LIttle Helper on my FLAC files prior to uploading I guess it will smooth the transition between tracks??  Is this correct?

[RedDawg]

After some research I think I figured it out.  If I click on "align on sector boundaries" when I'm converting to FLAC, this will correct the issue correct??

[pmonk66]

Trader's Little Helper will fix SBE's.

I believe Aligning on SB when when using FLAC Frontend also fixes them as well.

[sleepypedro]

After some research I think I figured it out.  If I click on "align on sector boundaries" when I'm converting to FLAC, this will correct the issue correct??

yes, that's all you need to do.

[terrapinj]

if you are using CDwave and getting SBEs you may have a bigger problem

they are easily correctable with either TLH or FLAC Frontend, but you should not be getting them at all with CDWave. you can also just check fro SBEs with TLH as well. i always leave the "align on SB" checked in Frontend unless doing 24bit conversions.

what editing are you doing from CdWave > Soundforge? generally tracking should be the last step before converting to FLAC, perhaps adding some fades but that shouldn't effect the Sector Boundaries



i see this was in Yellow Springs - do you know Jeff by any chance?

[jkbyram]

if you are using CDwave and getting SBEs you may have a bigger problem

they are easily correctable with either TLH or FLAC Frontend, but you should not be getting them at all with CDWave. you can also just check fro SBEs with TLH as well. i always leave the "align on SB" checked in Frontend unless doing 24bit conversions.

what editing are you doing from CdWave > Soundforge? generally tracking should be the last step before converting to FLAC, perhaps adding some fades but that shouldn't effect the Sector Boundaries

this is what i am thinkng too. some editing was done with an audio editor to introduce SBE's

[RedDawg]

i see this was in Yellow Springs - do you know Jeff by any chance?

Don't know or got to meet a Jeff Friday night.  Only 2 others taping that night and I knew both of them.  Heck of a show though!!


I have been tracking 1st with CDWave.  Then I use Soundforge6.0 for slight touch ups...then Encode to FLAC.  I guess I cut it first so I can play with each track on it's own. 
The way I look at it, I continue to do the same EXCEPT when I encode, I'll check the Align the SB box. 

+T for you folks if I knew how to give them....Gawd I'm still a neebie

[terrapinj]

i see this was in Yellow Springs - do you know Jeff by any chance?

Don't know or got to meet a Jeff Friday night.  Only 2 others taping that night and I knew both of them.  Heck of a show though!!


I have been tracking 1st with CDWave.  Then I use Soundforge6.0 for slight touch ups...then Encode to FLAC.  I guess I cut it first so I can play with each track on it's own. 
The way I look at it, I continue to do the same EXCEPT when I encode, I'll check the Align the SB box. 

+T for you folks if I knew how to give them....Gawd I'm still a neebie

you should try to do all edits prior to tracking out - depending what you are doing (normalizing, resampling, dithering, EQ etc) it will be easier to apply to the entire wav file and will keep your edits consistent and should make your work flow easier. you are likely causing SBEs when you are going back an editing the files after tracking. fades would be the only thing i can think of that may be necessary to be done after tracking but generally you should be able to do that prior as well.

also, try to get in the habit of saving your cue sheet in CDWave - it makes it much easier to go back and retrack a file down the road.

Jeff runs Small Diaphragm ADKs - not sure if hes been out taping lately, but i imagine your paths will/have crossed at some point in Yellow Springs

[dorrcoq]

+T for wanting to get your files correct!  I have pointed out SBE's to a few people on the archive, and got comments like "well, I can't hear them, so I don't care".  Come on!  This is the ARCHIVE!  Shouldn't all the files be as perfect as possible?

[F.O.Bean]

+T for wanting to get your files correct!  I have pointed out SBE's to a few people on the archive, and got comments like "well, I can't hear them, so I don't care".  Come on!  This is the ARCHIVE!  Shouldn't all the files be as perfect as possible?

AGREED!

[1westkc3]

I got SBEs on a Gourds show I taped.  I tracked a medly using Nero 7 Ultra.  I've used TLH to try to correct them but I still hear them.  Below is the log of the fixes TLH performed.  Any ideas why after the fix I still hear the SBEs?


The Gourds Tr22.flac --> The Gourds Tr22-fixed.custom
  - beginning of track will be moved backward by 2148 bytes
  - data size will increase by 1608 bytes

The Gourds Tr23.flac --> The Gourds Tr23-fixed.custom
  - beginning of track will be moved backward by 540 bytes
  - data size will decrease by 1008 bytes

The Gourds Tr24.flac --> The Gourds Tr24-fixed.custom
  - beginning of track will be moved backward by 1548 bytes
  - data size will increase by 468 bytes

[dorrcoq]

Did you run the shntool test to see what it says?

[1westkc3]

If you're referring to the "Test Encoded Audio File(s)" tab in TLH, yes and the results state tested ok (file will decode properly. 
If this is not the tool you're referring to, please direct me to the location of the shntool.

[dorrcoq]

"Audio File Details" tab - "len mode" (right hand side box)

[1westkc3]

shntool test result;

    length     expanded size   cdr  WAVE problems filename
     4:07.19       43616276    -b-   --   ---xx   The Gourds Tr22.flac
     3:18.10       34951772    -b-   --   ---xx   The Gourds Tr23.flac
     4:17.50       45451976    -b-   --   ---xx   The Gourds Tr24.flac
    11:43.05      124020024 B                     (totals for 3 files, 0.7075 overall compression ratio)

Any help explaining what this means and what it idicates I need to do to fix the SBEs would be greatly appreciated.

[pmonk66]

shntool test result;

    length     expanded size   cdr  WAVE problems filename
     4:07.19       43616276    -b-   --   ---xx   The Gourds Tr22.flac
     3:18.10       34951772    -b-   --   ---xx   The Gourds Tr23.flac
     4:17.50       45451976    -b-   --   ---xx   The Gourds Tr24.flac
    11:43.05      124020024 B                     (totals for 3 files, 0.7075 overall compression ratio)

Any help explaining what this means and what it idicates I need to do to fix the SBEs would be greatly appreciated.

The b means SBE.

The xx means the since it is flac it cannot be played on a cd-r

[pmonk66]

More detailed explanation --->  http://www.etree.org/shnutils/shntool/support/doc/shntool.txt

             

[1westkc3]

Thanks for the guidance pmonk.  It says;
 "An 'x' in any of these slots indicates that the particular problem does not  apply  to this file, or cannot be determined."  So I guess I can stop trying to fix it (at least with TLH).  Thanks again to both dorrcoq & pmonk for the assistance.

[pmonk66]

Thanks for the guidance pmonk.  It says;
 "An 'x' in any of these slots indicates that the particular problem does not  apply  to this file, or cannot be determined."  So I guess I can stop trying to fix it (at least with TLH).  Thanks again to both dorrcoq & pmonk for the assistance.

If you convert the flac to .wav, the xx will no longer appear.

TLH will fix the b

[J.Maye]

I had this problem once. I used cd wav to track, no post work, then flac frontend with the allign option checked. It showed sbe on the flacing and said something about moving a piece to the begining of the next track or something. I couldnt figure it out, so I deleted it, re-tracked it from the original wav and it was fine. Everything I have read tells me this shouldnt have happened with cd wav, but it did. Only 1 time out of 40+ shows though. 

[dorrcoq]

Thanks for the guidance pmonk.  It says;
 "An 'x' in any of these slots indicates that the particular problem does not  apply  to this file, or cannot be determined."  So I guess I can stop trying to fix it (at least with TLH).  Thanks again to both dorrcoq & pmonk for the assistance.

You're wrong there!  You still have SBE's, and you CAN fix them with TLH.  PM me your e-mail address and I will send you my SBE tutorial/

[Brennan]

+T for wanting to get your files correct!  I have pointed out SBE's to a few people on the archive, and got comments like "well, I can't hear them, so I don't care".  Come on!  This is the ARCHIVE!  Shouldn't all the files be as perfect as possible?

Good point, +T

[taosmay]

I've been concerned about SBE's also, since I usually track on a standalone cd recorder (an HHb cdr-830). I transfer from dat > cd on the HHb as an all one track disc, then listen and make notes where to insert the track ID's from the all one track disc, onto the next disc with track ID's. Is that asking for trouble with SBE's, or just something that can fixed down the road?

Plus, the other big concern for me is that I use a Mac (MacMini G4), and I've never uploaded my standalone burned disc's onto the computer for normalizing,etc. I have Toast with Jam6. Is their a tutorial on this or another board that can help a slow computer person work with this software? Thanks

[bluntforcetrauma]

SBE's (sector boundary errors)
Tracking at Sector Boundaries

Paying attention to a simple technical issue during tracking can make a noticeable difference in seed quality. Each track of a standard audio CD is composed of "sectors" or "frames" that are each 1/75 second long (also expressed as 2352 bytes or 588 samples long). If a track is properly cut on a multiple of 1/75 second, it is "sector aligned", or cut "along sector boundaries." When it is not properly cut, the last sector is like a ragged end, which CD burning software just fills in with silence. Listeners will hear a click or pop between tracks because of the music -> sub-second silence -> music transition. This is extremely annoying and easily avoidable.

For Mac,
I use Peak pro 5.2, but you can get audacity freeware, and xact for SBE's

[Chuck]

I have WaveLab and CuBase, but still prefer to use CDWave for cutting up CD tracks. With CDWave, cutting on correct sector boundries is fool proof. Just remember to cut the begining of the first file and the end of the last file with CDWav too.