Topic: Prospective taper::: What can you tell me about mic setup / placement?

[Kevin Straker]

Subcards outside or up front in a large room=NOS
cards in the sweet spot up front=ORTF
cards stuck in a narrow room or further back=XY 90 degrees
subcards on stage or stage lip=NOS or XY 110 degrees

Thanks, but I have no idea what that means This is what I really need help with

Check here:http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Microphone%20University/StereoTechniques.aspx

....also, look at the TS archive under mic setup.

[princecaspian]

Wow... thanks Kevin! That should help

[paulbaptiste]

Agreed with what's said above.  Especially if it's a venue you've been to before, if not it's worth checking out the venue for a free or cheap show and just check the layout of the room, even talk to the owners about taping, some guys will restrict where you can tape from.  Example, i was in a long narrow room and he made me set up in the corner, terrible place to set up, wall right behind me, sound just bouncing around at all angles.  So it never hurts to check out a venue, small club ect. before hand.

That being said, even some of these small mics do a damn good job open taping.  I open tape and used to stealth with my 853 set up all the time, don't really stealth anymore, but they still sound great flying high on a stand.  So it's not a bad idea to get some AT853's or Church CA-14's that you can tape with in both open and stealth situations.  Because even if you upgrade mics for open taping, which i have, you'll still use those 853's, church mics along the line.  My 2 cents

Nick

[Belexes]

That being said, even some of these small mics do a damn good job open taping.  I open tape and used to stealth with my 853 set up all the time, don't really stealth anymore, but they still sound great flying high on a stand.  So it's not a bad idea to get some AT853's or Church CA-14's that you can tape with in both open and stealth situations.  Because even if you upgrade mics for open taping, which i have, you'll still use those 853's, church mics along the line.  My 2 cents

That's good advice.

I have my busman mics for open taping, but my 853's and CA-14's are great either for stealth or open taping when I don't want to hassle with getting the busman's out.

[jlykos]

but in general, higher=better

No.

Higher is not always better, *especially* if you are taping in small bars and clubs.  The stacks in these places are often angled so that the people standing on the floor receive the best sound, not a hypothetical race of people who are 10 feet tall.  If you run the mics too high in these places, you run the risk of capturing a very off-axis recording that may have abnormally exaggerated frequencies.

If you want to tape Phish shows in large amphitheaters and the like, then you can run quite a bit higher because the PA will distribute sounds to a wider space so you have some leeway in stand height.  The crowd is also much louder at arena shows so you will want to get above the din of the crowd.  Crowd noise is usually not such an issue at smaller clubs, at least the ones that I frequent.

I can't tell you any hard and fast rules, but I usually try to run ~7-8 feet in clubs and ~10-12 feet in arenas.  Also, if you are recording in poor-sounding clubs (which is where I do the majority of my taping), you may want to consider investing in a set of hypercardioid capsules because they will give you a more direct response in poor-sounding environments.

[rhinowing]

but in general, higher=better

No.

Higher is not always better, *especially* if you are taping in small bars and clubs.  The stacks in these places are often angled so that the people standing on the floor receive the best sound, not a hypothetical race of people who are 10 feet tall.  If you run the mics too high in these places, you run the risk of capturing a very off-axis recording that may have abnormally exaggerated frequencies.

If you want to tape Phish shows in large amphitheaters and the like, then you can run quite a bit higher because the PA will distribute sounds to a wider space so you have some leeway in stand height.  The crowd is also much louder at arena shows so you will want to get above the din of the crowd.  Crowd noise is usually not such an issue at smaller clubs, at least the ones that I frequent.

I can't tell you any hard and fast rules, but I usually try to run ~7-8 feet in clubs and ~10-12 feet in arenas.  Also, if you are recording in poor-sounding clubs (which is where I do the majority of my taping), you may want to consider investing in a set of hypercardioid capsules because they will give you a more direct response in poor-sounding environments.

I didn't say it was better, I said it generally is better

[yawnfactory]

clips can help when stealthing. get ones that can rotate, as some are stationary. this way, you can point mics a little more upright
when standing on the floor.

[princecaspian]

Thanks for the advice, jlykos!

yawnfactory - I won't be stealthing, but thanks

[page]

If you want to tape Phish shows in large amphitheaters and the like, then you can run quite a bit higher because the PA will distribute sounds to a wider space so you have some leeway in stand height.  The crowd is also much louder at arena shows so you will want to get above the din of the crowd.  Crowd noise is usually not such an issue at smaller clubs, at least the ones that I frequent.

the problem with that is if they start to tune their line-array properly for distance, then running too high gets an even worse effect then what you describe at the club (exaggerated frequencies) as you are catching sound that is intended to dissipate between the stacks and where it's angled, so you're catching more of some things earlier that dissipate more (and would sound proper further away).

I wouldn't run higher then 10' at Phish anymore for fear that they finally get their shit together and tune for distance, and I end up capturing sound in a different bracket of the audience.

ymmv I guess.