Topic: SoundField SPS200

[J.T.L]

Against my better judgement, I might have to be an early adopter for this one. I've been waiting for info on it and got it the other day from Soundfield...





This new product is scheduled to be shipping in 6-8 weeks, below is some detailed information:

The SPS200 system includes:

1 x SPS200 microphone
1 x 5m mic cable (miniature multi-pin connector to 4 male in line XLR’s)
1 x SPS200 Surround Zone plug-in
1 x microphone holder/stand adaptor
1 x professional protective case
1 x owner’s manual

For your reference I have attached an image of the SPS200 in its protective case in addition to the preliminary data sheet.

Please contact our US distributor for more information, details below:

Transamerica Audio Group, Inc.
www.transaudiogroup.com

...I have inquired about a street price but have yet to hear anything. Does anyone here have any info?

[sygdwm]

wow.

[johnw]

Looks like MBHO capsules?

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

Looks like the Tetra mic does it not?  Frankly I'm a little scared to run a soundfield w/ a 7 series from all the trouble FOCKER is having. 

[J.T.L]

Frankly I'm a little scared to run a soundfield w/ a 7 series from all the trouble FOCKER is having. 

SPS200>R44 would be a small ambisonic footprint.

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

That would have to be the smallest 4 channel rig ever.   

[J.T.L]

Like FOCKER was saying in another thread, the ability to adjust patterns, angles, etc in post is my taping dream also...





...easy looking interface for the jump down to stereo. Nice for an audio lame'n like myself. Surround looks nice too...

[boojum]

It would look like the TetraMic because the physics is the same.  It is an interesting rig.  Price will make a difference, a big difference.  And performance, of course.  It looks interesting and is easier than the Schoeps 2MS setup.  But does it have the Schoeps sound?

I was thinking of getting another set of mics but now may have to pause a bit.  I'd like to see how the SPS200 works.

Looks good.

[rokpunk]

i played around with this thing last year at AES. seemed pretty neat, but also seemed *very* fragile to me. I don't think I'd take it out in the field.

[mmedley.]

Looks like the Tetra mic does it not?  Frankly I'm a little scared to run a soundfield w/ a 7 series from all the trouble FOCKER is having. 

It may look like it, but I guarantee you this one actually works and is 1000X better. Len's shit is just that...shit. I am guessing around a $3500 street price for the kit.

[jimmyrow]

I recall being quoted a price closer to the $2,500 range a year or so ago when this was still vaporware.   This was before the global bitchslapping of the dollar, though, so I'll be shocked if it comes in around there.

As for the fragility of this with the 7xx series, I wouldn't be too worried.   This will run on your favorite phantom powered preamp, so as long as your V3/M148/Sonosax plays well with your current recorder, it should work just fine with this mic.

JTL, I look forward to hearing any preliminary reports you will have!   

[macdaddy]

checking in. neat product.

+t

[rokpunk]

As for the fragility of this with the 7xx series, I wouldn't be too worried.   This will run on your favorite phantom powered preamp, so as long as your V3/M148/Sonosax plays well with your current recorder, it should work just fine with this mic.

I mean the capsules, where they attach to the body, seems like a physically weak point to me.
As for price, I think I remember the Soundfield guy telling me it would list around $6K....but that was last year and my memory is teh suck.

[J.T.L]

As for price, I think I remember the Soundfield guy telling me it would list around $6K

  I think I'll go back to offering Jimbo money and sex with my wife for his ST250.

[halleyscomet8]

As for price, I think I remember the Soundfield guy telling me it would list around $6K

  I think I'll go back to offering Jimbo money and sex with my wife for his ST250.

does that mean we will actually hear jimbo's rig go for it...

[Scooter]

Looks like MBHO capsules?

def look like mbho's to me...  or at least the capsule and the body housings do.

[Colin Liston]

I just want to know who does the foam cut outs for the pelican case.  I need that guy.

[jimmyrow]

LV Pro Audio confirms that this will be shipping from England in about 6-8 weeks.    They do not have a price for it yet, though, but will have it up as soon as it is available.

[bhadella]

As for price, I think I remember the Soundfield guy telling me it would list around $6K

  I think I'll go back to offering Jimbo money and sex with my wife for his ST250.

does that mean we will actually hear jimbo's rig go for it...

But.....what Jimbo lacks in transfers/seeds he makes up with fatty extra tickets for upcoming shows!   

[halleyscomet8]

As for price, I think I remember the Soundfield guy telling me it would list around $6K

  I think I'll go back to offering Jimbo money and sex with my wife for his ST250.

does that mean we will actually hear jimbo's rig go for it...

But.....what Jimbo lacks in transfers/seeds he makes up with fatty extra tickets for upcoming shows!   

yes he does

[F.O.Bean]

Looks interesting as usual w/ SoundField

Does look a bit too fragile to me tho! And how can one accomplish MS and any other config/pattern when each capsule points in a diff direction and on diff horizontal angles/tilts

[boojum]

Looks interesting as usual w/ SoundField

Does look a bit too fragile to me tho! And how can one accomplish MS and any other config/pattern when each capsule points in a diff direction and on diff horizontal angles/tilts

Bean, it is all in the math.   

[dancesonrocks]

yep,
its all in the math.  this configuration can reproduce
pretty much any mic configuration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonics


I use Plogue Bidule for ambisonic processing
using the plug-ins from Daniel Courville

http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/

[F0CKER]

I'd already inquired about it and may change over at some point.  I love the fact you can power it with any 48V preamp...just to hear the results mixing up pres.  I do love my 350...when it works.

$2500 was the ballpark price I'd heard.  It's long overdue for release though.

[F.O.Bean]

I'd already inquired about it and may change over at some point.  I love the fact you can power it with any 48V preamp...just to hear the results mixing up pres.  I do love my 350...when it works.

$2500 was the ballpark price I'd heard.  It's long overdue for release though.

Just $2,500.00 I bet its damn near DOUBLE that when its actually released to the public. I mean, there are 4 capsules, and  all. Although, you may be right, because you dont need the power supply like you do w/ the ST250 and the ST350. That is BADASS that you can power it w/ ANY +48v phantom source Maybe because this one doesnt require a power supply, it will be at a cost around what FOCKER stated. I bet you'd see alot more of these in the field in the future since theyre +48v phantom powered, and have the ability to do surround recordings, and MS and pretty much any pattern/config possible, right folks? If so, that is one AMAZING idea for a microphone. I just hope that its sturdier than it looks in the one picture of it!

Its ALL IN THE MATH, right?

[boojum]

I would love to see how this compares to the Schoeps 2MS setup which can do 2, 3, 4 or 5 channels out of their software decoder from three (2 Mk4 and 1 Mk8) feeds.  Anyway, the SF250 sure is interesting.  I am eager to see how it performs.

[Kewl]

Looks like the Tetra mic does it not?

It may look like it, but I guarantee you this one actually works and is 1000X better. Len's shit is just that...shit.

Yikes... I don't know what kind of experience you have with Len's shit, but the TetraMic does work. Some samples are available at http://www.ambisonia.com. There's also a detailed account of using the TetraMic here http://ambisonic.info/tetramic.html.

- Daniel

[J.T.L]

Looks like the Tetra mic does it not?

It may look like it, but I guarantee you this one actually works and is 1000X better. Len's shit is just that...shit.

Yikes... I don't know what kind of experience you have with Len's shit, but the TetraMic does work. Some samples are available at http://www.ambisonia.com. There's also a detailed account of using the TetraMic here http://ambisonic.info/tetramic.html.

- Daniel

That maybe, but enough experience has been gained by many others to know to stick with another company. Anyways, there has been questions and threads started asking Len to go more in-depth about the T-Mic that went unanswered. His own thread on his mic stays locked so moving on to the Soundfield...'nuf said.

[Kewl]

OK, I didn't know about Len's reputation and I never bought anything from him... I was on the TetraMic software dev team for about, like, 15 minutes and my email exchanges with him were always cordial and professional. So there you go...

At least, the TetraMic forced SoundField to take a pause and think about making their own incarnation of a tetrahedral mic where the A-Format to B-Format conversion is done digitally within the computer. Although the real inspiration for that A to B digital conversion was the AGM MR-1 in 1992 http://www.agmdigital.com/page2/files/77a5535ce4bacf67c382b03168ce73c3-4.html.



- Daniel

[J.T.L]

B&K 4011's for caps! That thing looks yummy...

[J.T.L]

Huh...



...here's to hoping it's the one on the right for the body but the angles look more correct on the left one. Maybe it's the pic...

[Əkoostikal]

B&K 4011's for caps! That thing looks yummy...

Yes it does.... I would love to hear some samples of that.

[boojum]

I like the tiny footprint and ease of use.  I was working with the Schoeps DMS for a few pulls but have not gotten it to work.  I am posting a clip of how they can manipulate three mics with this plugin or their hardware ($$$).

[Kewl]

...here's to hoping it's the one on the right for the body but the angles look more correct on the left one. Maybe it's the pic...

The most recent prototype is the left one. When the first prototype picture was released, everyone on the Sursound mailing list commented on the wrong angles...

- Daniel

[Kewl]

I was working with the Schoeps DMS for a few pulls but have not gotten it to work.  I am posting a clip of how they can manipulate three mics with this plugin or their hardware ($$$).

I made sort of a copy of the Schoeps DMS plug-in, but for Mac OS X since the Schoeps VST is Windows only.
http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/dms2five.html

- Daniel

[J.T.L]

I was working with the Schoeps DMS for a few pulls but have not gotten it to work.  I am posting a clip of how they can manipulate three mics with this plugin or their hardware ($$$).

I made sort of a copy of the Schoeps DMS plug-in, but for Mac OS X since the Schoeps VST is Windows only.
http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/dms2five.html

- Daniel

Big plus-tee for you!

[live2496]

I was working with the Schoeps DMS for a few pulls but have not gotten it to work.  I am posting a clip of how they can manipulate three mics with this plugin or their hardware ($$$).

I made sort of a copy of the Schoeps DMS plug-in, but for Mac OS X since the Schoeps VST is Windows only.
http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/dms2five.html

- Daniel

Daniel I was wondering about if you charge anything for your plugins? I don't see any prices mentioned.

The H2 plugin is quite an interesting idea too.

[Kewl]

Daniel I was wondering about if you charge anything for your plugins? I don't see any prices mentioned.
The H2 plugin is quite an interesting idea too.

For numerous reasons, ranging from internal university politics to the level of customer support made (im)possible when using a software like SonicBirth (the plug-in authoring app), I prefer for the plug-ins to remain free. So, download and enjoy!

Thanks for the H2 plug-in comment: from the webpage hits statistics, I believe that the Zoom2Five is my biggest success!

- Daniel

[fotoralf.be]

I believe that the Zoom2Five is my biggest success!

That plug-in alone should earn you a prize, Daniel! Bravo, et un grand merci également de ma part !

Ralf

[Kewl]

That plug-in alone should earn you a prize, Daniel! Bravo, et un grand merci également de ma part !

Thanks for the comment!

I saw on rec.audio.pro and 2090.org that you're successfully using the Zoom2Five in conjunction with TwistedWave. I was thinking of maybe adding a rotation control in the Zoom2Five to complement the Front/Back and Left/Right flip controls: would you find that useful?

Since your French seems to be in good shape, you should follow the TwistedWave thread on SoundDesigners.org: you would have access to the latest version and could suggest additions to the software directly to the author. http://www.sounddesigners.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4521

- Daniel

[fotoralf.be]

I saw on rec.audio.pro and 2090.org that you're successfully using the Zoom2Five in conjunction with TwistedWave.

At last, after weeks of crashes each time I tried to save my work. Took a little prodding but was solved eventually and now I'm a happy camper. :-)

I was thinking of maybe adding a rotation control in the Zoom2Five to complement the Front/Back and Left/Right flip controls: would you find that useful?

I haven't had the need for this so far but there might well be situations where this could be of great help. So, yes, it would be welcome.

TwistedWave thread on SoundDesigners.org...

Funny you should mention this. Incidentally, I've just registered myself there a few days ago. Not so much because of TwistedWave but rather as a French-speaking forum. I'll have a look at the TwistedWave forum over there, right after posting this message.

A+
Ralf

[boojum]

I was working with the Schoeps DMS for a few pulls but have not gotten it to work.  I am posting a clip of how they can manipulate three mics with this plugin or their hardware ($$$).

I made sort of a copy of the Schoeps DMS plug-in, but for Mac OS X since the Schoeps VST is Windows only.
http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/dms2five.html

- Daniel

I am unworthy.  I was a code monkey for years but never did any of this kind of stuff.  Hats off to you/Chapeau!

[Kewl]

I am unworthy.  I was a code monkey for years but never did any of this kind of stuff.  Hats off to you/Chapeau!

Thanks for the compliment, but I feel I must share it with an other Montreal native, the SonicBirth programmer. Creating plug-ins in SonicBirth is "fairly easy" and this guy, Antoine Missout, made it all possible. Last November, he was kind enough to invite me at his place so we could debug SonicBirth together to make the VSTs work in Nuendo 4 and Cubase 4.

Add Plogue Bidule to the mix of audio software out of this town and I say "Vive la Montreal French Connection!"

- Daniel

[Kewl]

Back to the topic...

The SPS200 is officially available.

- Daniel

[J.T.L]

Yeah, Ive been hammering TransAudio with calls on a weekly basis and yesterday I was told..."They (SF) say two weeks, two weeks...we don't know if they'll ever get here."

[Scooter]

so are the mics MBHO made??  the metal work seems to be the same.

[live2496]

$2995 USD

http://www.transaudioelite.com/trgranavofaf.html

[J.T.L]

$2995 USD

http://www.transaudioelite.com/trgranavofaf.html

I thought that was street price. I was quoted 2750 from them earlier...and I was told today that they probably won't have them till after AES...or that was what they said.

[boojum]

I am looking forward to the first user reports.  I am also interested how much use they will get in the pro arena.  They sure are an interesting setup, and finally almost affordable.  I wonder how the sound is.  Not the "Soundfield" sound but the musicality.

[Kewl]

And on the secondary topic (Schoeps Double MS), there's now an official, Schoeps-labelled, Mac OS X VST and RTAS plug-in for Double MS.

- Daniel

[boojum]

^^^^  Good-oh.

[J.T.L]

AES 2008 footage...

http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=10494

...even with F0ckers problems, I still want one.

[boojum]

Thwe SPS200 is software dependent.  That can be better, after it is debugged in use.  I think this setup, the SPS200, has the promise to be a real winner.  As I am invested in Schoeps I hope they come up with a way to make the Mk4's and a Mk8 fit together with a simple clip.  I have suggested a way to Jerry at Posthorn but I am sure that Schoeps thought of it, too, and rejected it.  I will know as soon as I hear back from Jerry.  This is an exciting area.  Each method, SF and Schoeps, offer a lot of possibilities.  One is the perfect Blumlein with a guaranteed 90 degrees between each lobe.  And the Schoeps software is supposed to do some magic in compensating their sound profiles.  I have read this but do not know.  All exciting developments.  And right here, on TS!   

[J.T.L]

The SPS200 is software dependent.  That can be better, after it is debugged in use.

As cool as it seems, I still wouldn't mind having a controller box like the ST250*/350 so I can use the stereo outputs when I feel like running a sbd matrix. I think my forsaken hopes of getting an ST250 are what keeps me from getting the SPS200 or just making my own.






* still looking at you Jimbo.

[jimmyrow]

* still looking at you Jimbo.

 

[F0CKER]

AES 2008 footage...

http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=10494

...even with F0ckers problems, I still want one.

Now I know why Pieter isn't working on resolving my issue.  He's out promoting their new mic!

[J.T.L]

I bit the bullet...it will be here on Friday.

[sygdwm]

just in time for panic, no?

[boojum]

I bit the bullet...it will be here on Friday.

Keep us posted on this.  Looks like you are the first on the board to dip your toe in the water.  I am very interested.  Are you doing hot shit stereo or going the 5.1 or what?  Fill us in.  Minds of all types want to know.   ;o)

[J.T.L]

Stereo for now...but all A/B format files will be archived for future playback setups. I'm slooooooowly building a 5.1 system for my home office. From what I was told, the US shipment has been stuck in customs for a while now and they had the AES demo mic which was never plugged in or used for $350 less so I jumped on it. I and one other person are the only ones in the country with them...it doesn't make my penis any bigger, but kinda' cool none the less.

[F0CKER]

..it doesn't make my penis any bigger, but kinda' cool none the less.

Soundfield also sells Viagra for $2,000 a pill.  But it's chances of success are 50/50.  Learned that the hard way too.

[J.T.L]

Don't harsh my mellow Brah.

[J.T.L]

My thoughts about windscreen options were either four windtechs trimmed to fit or one LD screen to cover the whole thing with a foam insert to cover the bottom ala the tetramic windscreen. Is there advantages/disadvantages to either of them? I welcome your diy input.

[boojum]

...it doesn't make my penis any bigger, but kinda' cool none the less.

You better check, just to make sure.     

[F0CKER]

My thoughts about windscreen options were either four windtechs trimmed to fit or one LD screen to cover the whole thing with a foam insert to cover the bottom ala the tetramic windscreen. Is there advantages/disadvantages to either of them? I welcome your diy input.

JTL, what are you using to power the mic?  As I'd mentioned in my pm, the way to run the SF for best results in A/B Format is to make sure your gain is set equally across all 4 channels.  Stepped gain seems to be easiest to insure accuracy.  You'll see variances in signal strength across all 4 but that's key to insuring a good decode to stereo, 5.1, etc...My biggest mistakes were running all 4 channels at different gain setting to make sure I had equal levels.  It f'ed up the decode process in some ways.  I followed up with SF and the above is the advice they gave me for best results.

I saw in that video SF makes a 4 channel pre for it, I'd guess it's portable and can be supplied with DC power, but that's just a guess.  Also, Aerco was willing to build a 4 channel pre for it when I inquired.  Stepped or linked gain, internal rechargeables with an option for external DC as well.  That would be an interesting pairing, IMO. 

If for some reason I can't get my replacement 350 working consistently and flawlessly I';ll be following your lead here, and think I'll take Aerco up on building a pre to support it.

Still holding out on the 350 though.  Not sure how much sonic difference there is between the 200 and 350, it would come down to the pre I'd imagine.  I bet the pre SF is selling with the 200 would make it almost identical to the 350...provided there's an option for DC powering.

[Kewl]

Still holding out on the 350 though.  Not sure how much sonic difference there is between the 200 and 350, it would come down to the pre I'd imagine.

The capsules are not the same, that sure could make a difference...

- Daniel

[jimmyrow]

Stereo for now...but all A/B format files will be archived for future playback setups. I'm slooooooowly building a 5.1 system for my home office. From what I was told, the US shipment has been stuck in customs for a while now and they had the AES demo mic which was never plugged in or used for $350 less so I jumped on it. I and one other person are the only ones in the country with them...it doesn't make my penis any bigger, but kinda' cool none the less.

SWEET NEWS J.T. - you going to bring it down to Chucktown for Panic this weekend?   We could have the ST-250 vs SPS200 battle royale 

[cfox]

But does it have the Schoeps sound?

he hopes it does 

[J.T.L]

- SPS200 > Oade R-44...no preamps (for now).

- I'm trying to make Charleston but the wife has me on lockdown due to my shenanigans at Mud Island, well see how much groveling must be done. If I win, do I get the 250?

- If I wanted the Shempz sound I would patch outta the 20 or so other people I know running them. It's all about forging new ground and if this mic does it for me...it's a keeper (I mean it this time).

+Ts all around, it will be here thursday now!

[F0CKER]

he hopes it does 

C Fox you coming to the Irving Plaza, NYC show?  I want to setup a battle royale between Soundfield and Schoeps.  I'm gonna take you down to Chinatown.  I'm watching you!

[F0CKER]

- SPS200 > Oade R-44...no preamps (for now).

- I'm trying to make Charleston but the wife has me on lockdown due to my shenanigans at Mud Island, well see how much groveling must be done. If I win, do I get the 250?

- If I wanted the Shempz sound I would patch outta the 20 or so other people I know running them. It's all about forging new ground and if this mic does it for me...it's a keeper (I mean it this time).

+Ts all around, it will be here thursday now!

You're gonna have the most compact, easy to run rig ever.  Nice!

You're gonna love not having to worry abotu what caps to run...and being able to switch between patterns/width in post.  It's addictive.

[mmedley.]

It's all about forging new ground and if this mic does it for me...it's a keeper (I mean it this time).

Haven't EVER heard that before. 

[J.T.L]

It's all about forging new ground and if this mic does it for me...it's a keeper (I mean it this time).

Haven't EVER heard that before. 

Touche

[carlbeck]

he hopes it does 

C Fox you coming to the Irving Plaza, NYC show?  I want to setup a battle royale between Soundfield and Schoeps.  I'm gonna take you down to Chinatown.  I'm watching you!

I will be there running some AKG four channel action!

[F0CKER]

I will be there running some AKG four channel action!

Battle Royale of the Four Channels is on!

[carlbeck]

Sweet!

[F0CKER]

JTL get yer ass up here and bring that new mic.

[jimmyrow]

I will be there running some AKG four channel action!

Battle Royale of the Four Channels is on!

All of this talk is just making me tingly inside 

Anyone have an extra (or two) for the Irving show?

[bhadella]

I will be there running some AKG four channel action!

Battle Royale of the Four Channels is on!

All of this talk is just making me tingly inside 

Anyone have an extra (or two) for the Irving show?

Are you going to seed it?   

[jimmyrow]

Are you going to seed it?   

ass 

[mmedley.]

If he doesn't seed it does it still win?

[F0CKER]

If he doesn't seed it does it still win?

Yes.

[carlbeck]

If he doesn't seed it does it still win?

I don't know, if a tree falls in a forest & no one hears it does it REALLY make a sound?

[hugh]

If you want a shoot-out with a TetraMic, in the Boston area, I'm on :-)

[carlbeck]

If you want a shoot-out with a TetraMic, in the Boston area, I'm on :-)

Nice, I am in NH hopefully we will meet at a show real soon.

[J.T.L]

It's here...pics tomorrow when I get my camera back.

[F0CKER]

It's here...pics tomorrow when I get my camera back.

Congrast JTL!

I wish my SF would arrive soon.

Fuck

[boojum]

It's here...pics tomorrow when I get my camera back.

Congrast JTL!

I wish my SF would arrive soon.

Fuck

F0CKER, you have to be the Cinderella of the SF world.     

[F0CKER]

It's like every show at midnight my gear craps out and I go back to being a little house tramp.  Maybe I should only tape bands where I know the show will end prior to midnight.  Barbershop quartets and one man bands for me from now on.  And maybe the sounds of nature.

hahahaha!

Sersiously my new rig is coming any day now and I'll be master of my domain again...seriously, just you wait.  Any day down......any freakin' day...

[J.T.L]

Pics...

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,112057.0.html

...the build quality is great. It is a lot stronger than it looks and is heavier than I expected. The cable build seems top notch...I have plugged everything in and can confirm it works so far. It's first run will be in one of Carrboro's worst sounding clubs, which seems perfect to me. I'll post samples when I can.

[mmedley.]

It's like every show at midnight my gear craps out and I go back to being a little house tramp.  Maybe I should only tape bands where I know the show will end prior to midnight.  Barbershop quartets and one man bands for me from now on.  And maybe the sounds of nature.

hahahaha!

Sersiously my new rig is coming any day now and I'll be master of my domain again...seriously, just you wait.  Any day down......any freakin' day...

Just for the record you have always been the little house tramp. Just sayin'.


Congrats JT. Looks neato.

[F0CKER]

Just for the record you have always been the little house tramp. Just sayin'.

That's a solid argument.  I'd have to agree.

<< even Santa's Little Helper agrees.

[mmedley.]

Santos L. Halpar 

[stirinthesauce]

JT, posts samples please!  Oh, and how much are these selling for?


 

[F0CKER]

JT, posts samples please!  Oh, and how much are these selling for?


 

$3k I believe

[J.T.L]

JT, posts samples please!  Oh, and how much are these selling for?


 

$3k I believe

Working on getting some samples up tonight and they sell for $2800.

EDIT: surround zone is awesome! I don't think I can ever go back to a stereo pair ever again. I've made one recording so far of a local pop/rock/indie kinda band in a horrid sounding club, onstage and was messing with the options for over an hour today trying to settle on something. It's like I have too many options when I was so used on settling with what my 2 mics gave me in whatever config I chose. I think I still want a 250 so I can do this with LD capsules...

F0CKER, is there anything special I should know about SZ that is not mentioned in the manual?

[F.O.Bean]

JT, posts samples please!  Oh, and how much are these selling for?


 

$3k I believe

Working on getting some samples up tonight and they sell for $2800.

EDIT: surround zone is bad ass! I don't think I can ever go back to a stereo pair ever again. I've made one recording so far of a local pop/rock/indie kinda band in a shit sounding club, onstage and was messing with the options for over an hour today trying to settle on something. It's like I have too many options when I was so used on settling with what my 2 mics gave me in whatever config I chose. I think I still want a 250 so I can do this with LD capsules...

F0CKER, is there anything special I should know about SZ that is not mentioned in the manual?

Can you snap a picture on the mic pointing towards a sound source or stereo I am still VERY CONFUSED on how its setup. I have a def idea but just wondering. Do you use it like a side vertical capsule, or does it point at the sound source like a normal capsule ala AKG 480/MBHO/Schoeps/Neumann does Doesnt the 2 'front' capsules point left/right towards the sound source at a 90* angle, while the surround ones point upwards and downwards in the rear at a 90* angle

[F0CKER]

F0CKER, is there anything special I should know about SZ that is not mentioned in the manual?

hmmm...not really sure.  I don't touch the gain at the master level, I boost it on the channel level instead.  Just play around with it, that's the best way to learn it, not too complex.  What I do like to do in Nuendo is load all the individual audio files into Nuendo in sequence then process them in szone together (walk away and do something else, it'll take some time)  After you have your two channel wav file, select the whole range for export and you'll have one file of the whole show  Easier to track one file instead of multiple and joining broken wavs, etc...

Have fun messing with it but don't labor over it.  I usually go for about 20 minutes before I settle on a pattern that way any changes in the sound have been realized.

[J.T.L]

Look at the first pic in this thread and that is one way to set it up...with the logo facing the stage. The software allows you to invert the signals or end-fire if you have it hanging upside down or aimed like a regular mic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundfield

[F0CKER]

Can you snap a picture on the mic pointing towards a sound source or stereo I am still VERY CONFUSED on how its setup. I have a def idea but just wondering. Do you use it like a side vertical capsule, or does it point at the sound source like a normal capsule ala AKG 480/MBHO/Schoeps/Neumann does

The correct answer Bean is......all the above.  You can run it side addressed, you can run it end fire, you can run it inverted if you want.  It's still the same concept you just have to tell the software which way you pointed it.  I always run mine side addressed with the logo facing the sound source.

[F.O.Bean]

Can you snap a picture on the mic pointing towards a sound source or stereo I am still VERY CONFUSED on how its setup. I have a def idea but just wondering. Do you use it like a side vertical capsule, or does it point at the sound source like a normal capsule ala AKG 480/MBHO/Schoeps/Neumann does

The correct answer Bean is......all the above.  You can run it side addressed, you can run it end fire, you can run it inverted if you want.  It's still the same concept you just have to tell the software which way you pointed it.  I always run mine side addressed with the logo facing the sound source.

that is CRAZY I am just wondering, I mean, wouldnt you WANT your capsules pointing TOWARDS a sound source? You mean you can literally just point it upwards towards teh ceiling using it like a side address and point teh caps in no particular direction or goal towards the sound source, and it will eventually decode itself back to normal I guess with a 'surround' mic, it doesnt matter, but id STILL THINK that youd want at least the 'front' 2 caps pointiong towards the sound source, and the 'rear' 2 caps shouldnt matter because theyre simply just filling in a surround sound, right? I dunno, I guess the concept just amazes me on some levels thats all GREAT BUY! And at only 2800 i personally think thats a GREAT DEAL, espec w/ 4 capsules They are MBHO DEAD KNOCKOFFS THO

[F.O.Bean]

and ive been recording for over 10+ years w/ a nice rig and Ive NEVER HEARD 'End-Fire' Does that just mean it would be pointing like a 'regular capsule' would be and pointing DIRECTLY TOWARDS THE SOUND SOURCE from the 0* of the capsule axis

[boojum]

Has anyone on the board worked with the Core Sound TetraMic?  Or, better yet, run it against any SF gear?  I can get the TetraMic and be up and running for half of the SF SPS200.  Same deal: four mics, special cable and software to decode it.  Whazzzzup?

[Brian Skalinder]

Bean -- side address is like AKG 414.  "End-fire" is like AKG 480s.  Inverted would be like an upside-down AKG 414.  (At least in terms of physical orientation of the microphone in space.)

Based on my limited knowledge, the beauty of soundfield mics - and the reason one may use any of those three orientations (side-address, end-address, inverted) - is that they capture the entire sound field at a given point in space, i.e. 360° of sound in all three dimensions:  vertical (up/down), lateral (side/side), depth (front/back).  The reason this is possible:  each capsule on a soundfield mic overlaps with the other capsules, ensuring total coverage in all directions (more on this in a moment).  In post-processing, the user then may decide "how much" sound from each direction/dimension to use in the final mix.  Kinda similar to M/S recording, where the user may control the width of the stereo image by deciding how much Side to mix in with the Mid signal.  With a soundfield mic, the user doesn't just decide how much Side to mix in.  The user decides how much sound to mix in from each dimension:  vertical (up/down), lateral (side/side), depth (front/back).  In other words, the user may decide to "throw away" some (or all of) sound captured on the recording.  For example, in a cruddy venue one may wish to throw away ALL the sound from the rear of the mic.  (Think of how cardioids don't capture sound from behind them.  Only in a soundfield mic's case, the sound is captured, but simply not used in the final mix.)

Another way to think of it:  the mic captures an entire sphere of sound around the mic.  Think of a single omnidirectional microphone that captures sound from all directions (for the sake of discussion, ignore that these nondirectional characteristics change to more directional characteristics at higher frequencies).  With an omni mic, it's very simple (for the sake of discussion) - a single channel that includes sound from all directions.  What you hear on that one channel is what you get - that's it.  But with a soundfield mic, think of that entire sphere of music sliced into multiple, different 3-dimensional "wedges".  The user may select which of those "wedges" to use, the extent to which one uses each, and which to discard outright.

The above is way overly simplistic, and not necessarily technically accurate in terms of how a soundfield mic works - it's just an attempt to help visualize the concept.

And Perhaps a graphic will help.  Here's an image of a soundfield mic's pickup pattern.  It includes 3 overlapping figure-8 patterns plus an omnidirectional pattern.  If you can visualize how M/S may be decoded to control the stereo width, perhaps you can visualize how a soundfield mic allows the user to control not only the width (the figure-8 pattern oriented on the Y axis), but also the height (Z axis) and depth (X axis).  (The omni mic is "W", which I've left out of the discussion for the time being.)

[F0CKER]

Has anyone on the board worked with the Core Sound TetraMic?  Or, better yet, run it against any SF gear?  I can get the TetraMic and be up and running for half of the SF SPS200.  Same deal: four mics, special cable and software to decode it.  Whazzzzup?

Not against per se, but here are some samples of the Soundfield 350 I've made for comps sake...

Dead Confederate - FOB/DFC in the sweet spot
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=519169

Lucero - On stage Blumlein & Card Mix
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=517817

Raq - FOB
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=516425

[J.T.L]

I asked Richard about the caps being MBHO and he told me he was pretty sure the similarity ends with the casing and that soundfield likes to make their own capsules.

[boojum]

F - OK, pulling in DC now.  I am expecting a real rsuh, ya know.     

OK, I will be interested to hear it and learn what SF sound slike.

Thanks.   

[F.O.Bean]

Thanks for the explanation Brian, you RAWK +T And thanks to FOCKER(I think or maybe JTL) whom posted the wikipedia links. I read up the short written piece of the SF on wikipedia and it is AMAZING to say the last. It has (4) Subcardioid capsules, and in post, you can make them an omni/subcard/card/hyper/fig8 on ANY of the capsules Thats just MINDBLOWING IMO

So, after reading Brians example, and the wikipedia link, I am STARTING TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT Like most ALL THINGS IMO, it can never be FULLY CONCEIVED by me unless I were to actually use it and do the post work and I dont see THAT happening anytime soon

Its just SIMPLY AMAZING what you can do in post with it. I also think its TRULY MIND BLOWING that you can just PLOP that sucka onto a stand on a side-address and just hit record, and then go back and alter it to your liking/standards and BAM, DONE!

The ONLY DOWNSIDE I can see to that AMAZING MIC is that the thing is SOOOO COMPLEX, and I have OCD< and I would NEVER get done w/ a recording, let alone in time to record my next show :p I would be on a recording FOREVER to get it JUST RIGHT ya know? Also, how does one TRULY make a PERFECT SOUNDING SURROUND MIX On headphones? Or a COMPLEX 5.1 or 7.1 TOP OF THE LINE HIGHEND speaker component system How would the final mix be mixed

IM SORRY for ALL of the questions, but this thing REALLY INTRIGUES ME TO TEH FULLEST I have only been recording for around 10+ years, and this concept just NEVER HIT ME until seeing this mic. Its just AMAZING how far recording technologies and capabilities have come THIS FAR in just the 10 or more years Ive been recording I mean, hell, back in 1997 when I bought my trusty ole Sony D-8 Dat deck, it was either buy a DAT deck or a MD, and the DAT was the CLEAR WINNER, As far as mics went, it was a HQ PAIR of condenser mics in your TYPICAL mic configs and THAT WAS IT. But NOW, nowadays we have mics like the SF surround SD mic How frickin CRAZY IS THAT Its MINDBLOWING TO ME and I know there are a few brands that make a head-like sphere thats also a surround mic. I think Hydrosphere or someone like that makes them. Theyre in teh Full Compass mag I get(I think thats what mag it is) and theyre TINY and come in 5.1 and 7.1 models I think And they are TINY IMO!!!

Thanks alot for the info guys!!!

Bean

[Kewl]

I asked Richard about the caps being MBHO and he told me he was pretty sure the similarity ends with the casing and that soundfield likes to make their own capsules.

SoundField made their own capsules way back when it was Calrec. SoundField doesn't have the in-house expertise to make their caps anymore (Calrec is now Hebden Sound). The caps in the ST350 and the SPS200 are made by MBHO.

As for the SPS200 SurroundZone, they will update it soon so it can output B-Format: for now, it can "only" output mono, stereo and various surround formats. Having access to the B-Format stream will open up the post-production software choices.

- Daniel

[Kyle]

Brian - thanks from me as well for the explanation. It is coming together much more clearly now.This microphone is a fantastic concept. Someday...

[F.O.Bean]

I asked Richard about the caps being MBHO and he told me he was pretty sure the similarity ends with the casing and that soundfield likes to make their own capsules.

SoundField made their own capsules way back when it was Calrec. SoundField doesn't have the in-house expertise to make their caps anymore (Calrec is now Hebden Sound). The caps in the ST350 and the SPS200 are made by MBHO.

- Daniel

WOW, thats actually kind of surprising to me I mean, I KNOW they look ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL but WOW. Maybe KNOW FINALLY MBHO will get the recognition they DESERVE for being a FINE GERMAN MICROPHONE COMPANY I mean, theyre mics are like 99% handmade, and have a LIFETIME WARRANTY

So, since the SF under wikipedia states that the SF SPS200 has (4) Subcardioid capsules, so that would DEFINITELY make sense w/ them being made by MBHO, since MBHO MAKES the KA300 NB Subcardioid capsules So its really just (4) of those in a tetramic-esque array w/ some CRAZYASS SOFTWARE that can do ANYTHING w/ those 4 signals, including making any 4 of those subcards into omni/subs/cards/hypers/fig8's all in the software in post FUCKING CRAZY MANG!!!!

[J.T.L]

I asked Richard about the caps being MBHO and he told me he was pretty sure the similarity ends with the casing and that soundfield likes to make their own capsules.

SoundField made their own capsules way back when it was Calrec. SoundField doesn't have the in-house expertise to make their caps anymore (Calrec is now Hebden Sound). The caps in the ST350 and the SPS200 are made by MBHO.

As for the SPS200 SurroundZone, they will update it soon so it can output B-Format: for now, it can "only" output mono, stereo and various surround formats. Having access to the B-Format stream will open up the post-production software choices.

- Daniel

+T

[Kewl]

So, since the SF under wikipedia states that the SF SPS200 has (4) Subcardioid capsules, so that would DEFINITELY make sense w/ them being made by MBHO, since MBHO MAKES the KA300 NB Subcardioid capsules

The SoundField Wikipedia entry doesn't explicitly talk about the SPS200: the "classic" SF models employ subcardioids because of the technical limitations in getting a cardiod pattern with a cap with such a small back chamber. The SPS200 employs MBHO KA 200 caps. Having cardioids caps on a tetrahedron assembly (TetraMic, SPS200 and, back in the 90s, the AGM-MR1) produces better S/N ratio in the XYZ channels.

The choice of subcardioid (cap with small back chamber) or cardioid (cap with usually bigger back chamber) for assembling a tetrahedron comes down to a balance between physical coincidence (which will impact the B-Format accuracy at high frequencies) and S/N ratio in the XYZ channels (because less directional caps will have less directional difference between them).

- Daniel

[live2496]

Thanks Daniel. Good stuff.

I noticed that Oktava has a 4 capsule mic. But their capsules are much farther apart.
http://www.oktavausa.com/ProductsPages/Ambient4DMic.html

I was thinking that higher frequencies would be out of phase as the capsules are not as coincident. However this is interesting because the capsules are quite common and relatively cheap. I guess the top could be modified for B-format recording.

[J.T.L]

These samples are from a small club with a horrid PA system. The mic was onstage/dfc/~3' high. The drums were behind the guitar amps and the vocal monitor was hanging against the wall, stage right. The bass has no bass but yet can still be heard, this is not from the mic but how the bass player had his rig set. The band requested that I not circulate their show due to all the songs are on an up coming album but I am allowed to post one track to this forum only. It was the last song of their set and I have it zipped below...

http://the-home-team.org/other/SPS200.zip

Out of the three tracks, one is Blumlein, one is cardioids at 110º and the last is mid-side with a hyper setting as the mid...decoded 50/50. In my opinion, not the best test for this mic but is useful to the tapers here who frequent odd clubs more than theaters, coliseums and amphitheatres.

[mmedley.]

Nice work. First impression after a quick 30 sec listen to each config. I liked the blumlein the best, then mid-side, then cards.


Can't wait to hear this badboy at some indoor Panic.


Edit: On second thought, I think I like the cards more than the mid-side after another listen.


Alright, enough procrastinating, back to my hole to do schoolwork.

[boojum]

Nice work. First impression after a quick 30 sec listen to each config. I liked the blumlein the best, then mid-side, then cards.


Can't wait to hear this badboy at some indoor Panic.


Edit: On second thought, I think I like the cards more than the mid-side after another listen.


Alright, enough procrastinating, back to my hole to do schoolwork.

As a state certified MS fluffer I have to say the the M-S ratio can be varied in MS.  So you may not have had the best ratio.  I generally record at 50/50 and later dial more M into the mix, especially with a noisy crowd.  Then again, you may have done all that, and the XY is better.   

I am also interested in seeing how the Core Sound Ambisonc mics work.  His comes in at about half the SF setup.  If it is any kind of close to the SF it would be a viable alternative.  I see Ambisonic really nice, but I would also run a pair of omnis and/or cards just so I could sort out what is best of the lot.  In a certain situation even Ambisonic XY may not sound as good as regular XY because of the difference in the mics "signature."

If, however, the Ambisonic has a good signature in its various configurations it would be the "go to" mic for all seasons.  This is an interesting, and developing, story.

Oktava is larger.  Russians like big, bolshoi, in Russian.  Big like house, strong like ox.  Oh, the stereotypes.  I can't wait until someone on the board springs for the Oktavas.

Cheers

PS - I listened to F0CKER's Dead Confederate recording.  It has a very nice sense of space to it, ambiance.  The downside of live recording is that too often you get a good recording of a bad PA system.

[jimmyrow]

The downside of live recording is that too often you get a good recording of a bad PA system.

QFT

[live2496]

Oktava is larger.  Russians like big, bolshoi, in Russian.  Big like house, strong like ox.  Oh, the stereotypes.  I can't wait until someone on the board springs for the Oktavas.

In Saskatchewan (where I was born) I have known the Russian's to say "is strong like bull".  :-)
So I guess Oktava is strong like bull.

I liked the blumlein recording the best too. Though it seems more guitar amp and less drums.

[F.O.Bean]

thats CRAZY that you have the ability and control to MAKE all 3 configs IN FUCKING POST This mic is starting to open up to me and im understanding it more and more so you can TOTALLY just make a STEREO recording instead of the surround end result right? you can basically do whatever the fu&* you want to

[F0CKER]

thats CRAZY that you have the ability and control to MAKE all 3 configs IN FUCKING POST This mic is starting to open up to me and im understanding it more and more so you can TOTALLY just make a STEREO recording instead of the surround end result right? you can basically do whatever the fu&* you want to

As long as it's XY, yes.....pretty much.

[Brian Skalinder]

you can basically do whatever the fu&* you want to

Within reason.  Keep in mind that the mic basically captures the soundfield at (roughly) a point in space - it's a coincident technique.  So the stereo output one selects is also effectively coincident.  In other words, one can't produce a stereo mix that is NOS, ORTF, etc.

[F.O.Bean]

you can basically do whatever the fu&* you want to

Within reason.  Keep in mind that the mic basically captures the soundfield at (roughly) a point in space - it's a coincident technique.  So the stereo output one selects is also effectively coincident.  In other words, one can't produce a stereo mix that is NOS, ORTF, etc.

big ole +T. Ahhh, its beginning to all make sense now. how are teh caps 'coincident' when NONE OF THEM are on the same plane and NONE of teh caps are directly over one another for "TRUE COINCIDENCE", correct

So JTL, youre saying that there ARE a couple or at least one mic company that uses (4) subcardioid capsules instead of (4) cardioid capsules Thats also CRAZY about MBHO making them their capsules. I take it you like their sound on the 350 as well Alot of people think their capsules are too bright, but paired w/ the right preamp, theyre amazing. I really like them w/ the 7xx thus far

[Brian Skalinder]

how are teh caps 'coincident' when NONE OF THEM are on the same plane and NONE of teh caps are directly over one another for "TRUE COINCIDENCE", correct

"Close enough."

[jimmyrow]

Again Bean, the software that decodes the B Format knows EXACTLY how far apart the caps are.....the software can take that into account to put them in whatever position they need to be put into.

[live2496]

big ole +T. Ahhh, its beginning to all make sense now. how are teh caps 'coincident' when NONE OF THEM are on the same plane and NONE of teh caps are directly over one another for "TRUE COINCIDENCE", correct

Bean,
The work that Gerzon and his peers did with a multiple capsule mic built on the work of Blumlein but in 3 dimensions. Actually with B-format you can manipluate in whatever plane you want to when decoding (up-down, forward-backward, left-right.)

The idea is to get the capsules as close as you can to each other so as to maintain the phase relationship of all waves at that single point in space. The only waves that will be out-of-phase would be the higher frequencies. ie. those whose wavelength is the distance between caps or less.

[hugh]

The "precisely coincident" thing still confuses me no end.  Here's the Gerzon paper describing the concept and math behind it:
http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Public/B-format/A2B-conversion/Gerzon/Design_Precisely_Coincident_Microphone_Arrays.pdf

But regardless, these ambisonic mics do create a stunning soundstage.
This one is an example of TetraMic: http://www.halfbricking.com/Samples/Qwill%20-%20When%20We%20Come.mp3

Some time I'd love to do a direct compare with the SPS200.  The Tetramic "post" software, VVMic (http://vvaudio.com/vvmic/), has quite a nice graphical way to play with mic orientations etc in post.  Ability to rotate, alone, is worth its weight in gold.

[J.T.L]

Jimbo, F0CKER...ST250 vs ST350 vs SPS200 3-way fob cage match for Asheville WSP? 

[F0CKER]

Jimbo, F0CKER...ST250 vs ST350 vs SPS200 3-way fob cage match for Asheville WSP? 

Make it Irving Plaza and you've got a deal!

[boojum]

big ole +T. Ahhh, its beginning to all make sense now. how are teh caps 'coincident' when NONE OF THEM are on the same plane and NONE of teh caps are directly over one another for "TRUE COINCIDENCE", correct

Bean,
The work that Gerzon and his peers did with a multiple capsule mic built on the work of Blumlein but in 3 dimensions. Actually with B-format you can manipluate in whatever plane you want to when decoding (up-down, forward-backward, left-right.)

The idea is to get the capsules as close as you can to each other so as to maintain the phase relationship of all waves at that single point in space. The only waves that will be out-of-phase would be the higher frequencies. ie. those whose wavelength is the distance between caps or less.

If they were cardioids I would think that DPA could rig four 4061's together nicely.  They are soooo tiny that coincidence would be better.  Their sound is supposed to be quite good.  Folks on the board who have them seem to like them.  Hmmm.  With all the push to multi-channel I would think that DPA could bring in a killer Ambisonic package with those mics.

[live2496]

My thinking as well. I'm not sure why DPA's miniature mics are all omni's and interestingly Core Sound chose larger capsules for the tetramic. It may have something to do with the frequency response but I really don't know enough about mic design to say.

Anyway, it's great to see these types of mics coming to the market. I'm sure it will change taping in some way. It will certainly make surround sound more of a possibility.

[boojum]

The problem that I have with surround sound is that I need four channels to do it.  I suppose I could rig up something.  I would most likely do it with 4 AR-2ax's.  I have two already and they have a great sound.  Four channel receivers are all that is out there now, it seems, so that is solved.  I guess the playback is on a DVD.  Hmmm.  As if I am not broke enough already.  And the economy does not look good.

Cheers

[live2496]

The problem that I have with surround sound is that I need four channels to do it.  I suppose I could rig up something.  I would most likely do it with 4 AR-2ax's.  I have two already and they have a great sound.  Four channel receivers are all that is out there now, it seems, so that is solved.  I guess the playback is on a DVD.  Hmmm.  As if I am not broke enough already.  And the economy does not look good.

Cheers

The workaround for this is render to a stereo file and in high-fidelity as possible using a DVD I suppose. If you want surround you could encode to DTS and decode on the receiver. (I did get an Auzentech pci card that can encode/decode to DTS or Dolby Digital using hardware. That will probably come in useful.)

There was some discussion on sursound about using VLC (videolan client) software to decode B-format. We will see if something comes of that.

I have seen receivers with 8 channels. Some of them have direct channel passthrough also. Yamaha and Denon were brands I saw that on. Probably there are others.

[Dr.FOB]

Not against per se, but here are some samples of the Soundfield 350 I've made for comps sake...

Dead Confederate - FOB/DFC in the sweet spot
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=519169

And an excellent comp for sure.  This sat in the truck through a dozen play throughs before I kicked it down to the guy who sold me his Black Crowes tickets at face;)
When I get my SZ running I'll want those original files to render up some 5.1 with.

[F0CKER]

Not against per se, but here are some samples of the Soundfield 350 I've made for comps sake...

Dead Confederate - FOB/DFC in the sweet spot
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=519169

And an excellent comp for sure.  This sat in the truck through a dozen play throughs before I kicked it down to the guy who sold me his Black Crowes tickets at face;)
When I get my SZ running I'll want those original files to render up some 5.1 with.

Jim, let me check I think I still have the B Formats on the card.  If not I'll see if I can save them.  I *think* I did, but I need a new HD and haven't been savign all my B Format recordings.  Glad you liked it.

[J.T.L]

Here is another sample of it getting a workout. Black Crowes fob action fo' that ass...

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=520010 [SoundField SPS200 (Mid-Side) > Oade R-44]
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=519997 [Schoeps MK4 (ORTF) > KC5 > CMC6 > Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-671]

...Jimbo was there with his ST250 on the stand next me so look for his source any moment now...









...any moment now...




...

[J.T.L]

Ok, for the people who do not want to download both torrents for comparison, I am hosting 2 tracks from the show for anyone who wants to hear the difference. Granted, this is a loose comp but an interesting listen. From the included info file...

Black Crowes - Good Friday
2008-11-08
Street Stage Raleigh, NC

SoundField SPS200 (Mid-Side) > Oade R-44
Schoeps MK4 (ORTF) > KC5 > CMC6 > Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-671

fob/dfc/8'

- both setups were on the same stand, the schopes were a few inches higher, the soundfield was a few inches closer

http://the-home-team.org/other/schoeps_vs_soundfield.zip

...Thank you to RDunn for Schoeps source. There were a few other setups of varying tastes/styles and I'll try to add them here once they pop-up...except Jimbo's.

[F.O.Bean]

...Jimbo was there with his ST250 on the stand next me so look for his source any moment now...









...any moment now...




...

  ZING!!! SNAP!!! BOING!!! DING!!!!

Thanks for hosting those 2 tracks JTL I will def give them a THOROUGH LISTEN later today when I wake up +T

[J.T.L]

Anyone? Thoughts?

[F.O.Bean]

Anyone? Thoughts?

I'll bite First off, I think the levels were a BIT OFF. Yours seemed a TAD HIGHER in output levels, but overall, they were pretty even I guess.

Schoeps recording - Obviously a little bit "darker" than your recording, and overall VERY NICE. Great lowend response, clear and pristine vocals, not alot of chatter at all, and super smooth highs. Overall an A+ recording IMO1

Soundfiled/MBHO recording - Well, The Highs are CRISP AS HELL and are as SMOOTH AS BUTTA, the mids are just as consistent, and the lowend is very steady and consistent without being "dark" or "muddy" at all. What REALLY CAPTURES ME and why I like YOUR RECORDING BETTER, is DEFINITELY the presence and the overall HUGE DIFFERENCE in soundstage and 3D imaging HANDS DOWN the winner of the 2 sources IMO, and an EASY A++ recording I would CREAM MY FUCKING PANTS if I had that particular mic and pulled consistent recordings liek this all of the time I just LOVE the 3D IMAGING/SOUNDSTAGE and the overall HUGE PRESENCE in your MS recording over the "darker" and "muddier" Schoeps recording IMO.

LOVE IT JTL. Keep those samples/recordings COMING MY MAN I am TRULY FUCKING IMPRESSED w/ your recording brotha! But probably for the EXACT SAME REASONS that I LOVE my MBHO setup, because it IS a little bit "brighter" overall, but because of that, the presence and 3D Imaging/Soundstage is IN YOUR FACE, and just has a character of PRESENCE and DETAIL that the Schoeps just DOES NOT HAVE IMO. And yours maintains a KILLER PRESENCE/SOUNDTSGAE/3D IMAGERY, but while also MAINTAINING A PERFECT LOWEND RESPONSE AS WELL. The detail and presence didnt take away from the lwoend AT ALL IMO

What do all of you think

I think BOTH TAPERS DID AN AMAZING JOB, but my vote DEFINITELY and BY FAR goes to the SF source

[live2496]

Thanks for posting the files...

Here is a comparison of the recordings. The lighter green trace is the soundfield with the schoeps being the darker one.
The soundfield has a bit of a boost above 3k. Also a bit more in the 1k-3k region.

What is a surprise is the near identical response in the lower frequencies, but the schoeps recording is lacking clarity in the low end. The soundfield has much clearer bass. I guess this can be attributed to the difference in arrival time in the separated capsules vs the coincident caps in the soundfield I hope that I am reaching the right conclusion.

[page]

I generally concur with Bean's dissertation.

I've heard Dunn's setup before (his Pumpkin's tape from this fall mini-tour being a great example). Aside from balance, one thing I notice is that the schoeps seems much flatter (or less airy) in a spacial perspective. I haven't really comp'ed schoeps vs something else from the same show, so this is a first critical listen for me. Thats the biggest thing I noticed.

I'll bite, why is the balance off?

[live2496]

Different capsules. The soundfield is just brighter sounding. I would prefer the flatter sound, but the clarity of the soundfield in the low end tips the balance for me.

[kbergend]

This mic just sounds OH so very intriguing!  I've always liked the MBHO sound and I really like that Black Crowes sample.  And Cowboy Junkies' Trinity Session album (recorded with a CalRec Soundfield system) has one of the most realistic stereo images I've ever heard.  A couple of questions for those who understand the technology better than I do:

1.  Is crowd noise a serious issue for this system in the environments most of us often tape in?  I would think with four subcards pointing in different directions you'd pick up a lot of chatter (as opposed to a pair of hypers pointed more or less toward the music).  Or can you synthesize the raw mic signals during processing such that noise from the unwanted directions is minimized?

2. Anyone know if the VST processing plug-in will work with Adobe Audition 3.0?  If not, does running Pro-Tools HD for Windows require any special hardware (other than a beefy PC), or can you just read the four raw .wav tracks from a card reader straight into the program?

thanx in advance...

[J.T.L]

1. Sorry I have not used enough in chatty circumstances.

2. Contact them about it, the vst seems very fickle due to iLOK being used with it I assume.

[live2496]

There are free tools available too...

If you can get the audio into b-format for windows there is David McGriffy's VVMic application which is a standalone app and also is available as a VST plugin.
http://mcgriffy.com/audio/ambisonic/vvmic/

If would think that you could minimize the effect of crowd chatter by altering the virtual mic placement.

There is info on decoders at ambisonia.com. Currently I cannot connect to it, but here is the link...
http://www.ambisonia.com/wiki/index.php/Playback_Software

[page]

If would think that you could minimize the effect of crowd chatter by altering the virtual mic placement.

Good thinking; since you have Z data, then in post, try incorporating more of it to "aim upwards" till you find a happy balance.

[hugh]

1.  Is crowd noise a serious issue for this system in the environments most of us often tape in?  I would think with four subcards pointing in different directions you'd pick up a lot of chatter (as opposed to a pair of hypers pointed more or less toward the music).  Or can you synthesize the raw mic signals during processing such that noise from the unwanted directions is minimized?

Crowd noise is just exactly as much an issue as any other standard (first-order) mic setup.  (I'm excluding higher-order directional mics, e.g. shotgun).  But the advantage is that you can change the mic orientation any way you like after the recording is done.  So in post, you play with different angled pairs of various degrees of cardioid and find one that gives best balance against the crowd.  Of course you can't get rid of the crowd altogether, and directionality is limited to first order (i.e. anywhere along the sub/cardioid/super/hyper/figure8 pattern family).

2. Anyone know if the VST processing plug-in will work with Adobe Audition 3.0?  If not, does running Pro-Tools HD for Windows require any special hardware (other than a beefy PC), or can you just read the four raw .wav tracks from a card reader straight into the program?

I like Bruce Wiggins' "WigWare" VST decoders, and use them for my 5.1 mixes:  http://sparg.derby.ac.uk/SPARG/Staff_BW.asp
Haven't tried them in Audition, only AudioMulch.

[hugh]

Some examples of different post mixdowns: http://halfbricking.com/Samples/Mixdown/

[Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)]

you can basically do whatever the fu&* you want to

Within reason.  Keep in mind that the mic basically captures the soundfield at (roughly) a point in space - it's a coincident technique.  So the stereo output one selects is also effectively coincident.  In other words, one can't produce a stereo mix that is NOS, ORTF, etc.

You can do it using two or more ambisonic mics, just like you'd do with standard fixed-pattern mics.

[J.T.L]

Four channel amp made for the SPS200 but it's AC only ...
http://www.soundfield.com/downloads/smp200.pdf

[mmedley.]

Four channel amp made for the SPS200 but it's AC only ...
http://www.soundfield.com/downloads/smp200.pdf

Time to get a power inverter and a car battery to lug to shows. 

[boojum]

Time for me to get serious about the Schoeps DMS system: three mics, period.  Free decoder plug-in.  No vertical axis, but if you are not planning on a four channel with a speaker overhead, no problemo.     SF does still fascinate, though.

[Kewl]

Time for me to get serious about the Schoeps DMS system: three mics, period.  Free decoder plug-in.  No vertical axis, but if you are not planning on a four channel with a speaker overhead, no problemo.

The processor/decoder is bundled with the SPS200 (so I guess it's sorta "free"...). For other SoundField mics, there are free processors and decoders for both PCs and Macs.

As for the vertical axis, it's not necessarily for a overhead speaker: it can be useful if you want to virtually tilt the SoundField when decoded to stereo or surround. The DMS can't do this.

- Daniel

[phreshie]

Very impressed with its sound. I DL the WSP 11-28 show from NC. Fantastic show ! 
Great clarity with this fob recording, not as much bass present as I would like, but then again I had my Velodyne turned off. I want to listen again with the sub 'on' and see if the bass results increase. The post production is a little confusing tho ......
What is the cost of this mic ....... I'll try and read back in the thread some say 3500 another says expect to pay 2500, I'll read it again.
Thanks for the post JTL - your Widespread pull sounds great !!

[Kewl]

The SPS200 SurroundZone plug-in is now iLok-free (so, basically, free) and features B-Format output.

http://soundfield.com/products/sps200_s_zone.php

- Daniel

[englishwob]

Thanks mine(the short body) is on the way.
I do not know if any one has said it but does any one monitor and playback in B-format on the Sounddevices 788T? Is the playback realistic?

[F0CKER]

I do not know if any one has said it but does any one monitor and playback in B-format on the Sounddevices 788T? Is the playback realistic?

I don't know about the 788, but with the 744 it just lets you play the B Format file as a stereo file.  It's not realistic in the sense once you get back and decode using the szone plugin, you get an entirely different sound, based on pattern, width, etc.