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Poll

Which version of the song sounds better? 1 or 2

1 sounds better
9 (60%)
2 sounds better
4 (26.7%)
they sound about the same
2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Author Topic: Nbox/CMR Comp  (Read 22916 times)

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Offline edtyre

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Nbox/CMR Comp
« on: July 27, 2010, 07:30:13 PM »
Last week at the Keswick, Nicky C and i taped The Levon Helm Band.
We were sitting next to each other, were both recording @ 24/44.1
both had a hat config of DINA, we both used a Sony PCM-M10.

mk-4>actives>nbox+>pcm-m10
mk-4>cmr>naiant tiny box>pcm-m10

I know this isn't very scientific, but i'm posting these samples so people
that are interested can hear.

Flac
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UJS18ITW
MP3
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H97DARQ3

There are 2 files, same song recorded with each setup.

1 or 2

Let me know which sounds better? Why does it sound better? After some people have given their opinions
i'll post which rig recorded each.

have fun!
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline dennisrtyler

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 09:47:08 PM »
very interesting, thanks Ed. i will listen some more but my initial thoughts are that 1 has a more defined low end, punchier i would say. after 2 listens, i prefer source 1. gonna do more listening though.
4. im so abrasive i make sandpaper nervous.

Schoeps CMR/mk4 > Naiant PFA > Oade Concert Mod Marantz PMD-661

Offline dennisrtyler

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 09:55:47 PM »
im hearing a little more "openness" in source 2. the more i listen, the more the extra punch in source 1 becomes less impressive. does that make sense? i mean i like punch, dont get me wrong, but i'm not automatically giving the gold to source 1 just cause of the extra punch.
4. im so abrasive i make sandpaper nervous.

Schoeps CMR/mk4 > Naiant PFA > Oade Concert Mod Marantz PMD-661

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 10:11:33 PM »
Thank you!

I'm finding the levels are significantly different.  Beyond mere peak issues that can be easily fixed, one of the files appears to have been compressed.  Maybe due to overs?

  RMS
avg  level              peak         gain
-18.8208dBFS -0.1354dBFS  6.8208dB   lhb1.wav
-16.3950dBFS -4.4382dBFS  4.3950dB   lhb2.wav

If everything had gone right, I should be able to bring both samples up to 0 dBFS and have the avg RMS levels be very close.  But if I bring both of these peak levels up to 0dBFS, sample 2 will be around -12 RMS AVG, vs -18 for sample 1.  That is a huge difference in loudness.

I tried matching the RMS levels at -16, but the files still didn't sound close in terms of levels.
Also, the files are out of sync by about 4 or 6 seconds. That makes it hard to compare specific passages.

I may look at the files more, but I don't think these files can be made equivalent for comparison.


Offline su6oxone

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 10:56:29 PM »
Thanks for the comp Ed!  I've been curious about this myself.  And actually it's about as scientific as a comparison gets, since you've controlled all variables except for one -- the Nbox versus the CMR/little box (which is fair since it seems people are only using the little box with the CMRs currently)... and in a real-world, concert setting instead of some sterile studio/lab where the results would not translate to live concert recordings nearly as well.  At least you could make a conclusion that one sounds better for taping this specific concert at that specific venue with those specific conditions, etc.  8)

As for the actual comparison... I find them nearly indistinguishable and hence both sound great.  If I had to choose, I would choose file #1 but it's really pretty much a toss up for me. 

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2010, 11:14:04 PM »
And actually it's about as scientific as a comparison gets, since you've controlled all variables except for one -- the Nbox versus the CMR/little box (which is fair since it seems people are only using the little box with the CMRs currently)...

Farcical.

Offline darktrain

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2010, 11:52:21 PM »
They both sound pretty good and nothing "stood out" for me that made one seem better than the other, nice job on both

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2010, 06:06:27 AM »
It's not true that tinyboxes are only being used with CMRs, only about half thus far and I expect that ratio to drop as more Nak, AT, PIP, and phantom tinyboxes hit the streets.

Also note that tinybox is not littlebox--there are only a couple of CMR littleboxes vs. many many PIP/phantom littleboxes.


(which is fair since it seems people are only using the little box with the CMRs currently)

I think su6oxone could have worded it better.  I think what he was trying to say was that just about everyone here at ts.com who is running the CMR's is using either a littlebox or a tinybox, (as opposed to some other pre-amp or battery box with the CMR's).  and not that everyone using a tinybox or littlebox is running CMR's.

Offline su6oxone

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2010, 09:15:53 AM »
I think su6oxone could have worded it better.  I think what he was trying to say was that just about everyone here at ts.com who is running the CMR's is using either a littlebox or a tinybox, (as opposed to some other pre-amp or battery box with the CMR's).  and not that everyone using a tinybox or littlebox is running CMR's.

Thanks, that is what I meant to say.  8)

Offline JD

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2010, 10:38:10 AM »
Thanks for the comp.

I found them to be pretty close, but went with file 1. It just seemed a little fuller on the bottom end.
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Offline sparkey

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2010, 11:58:10 AM »
I can't download the file.....boo....
#Generalstrike for president in 2024

Offline audBall

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2010, 12:44:08 PM »
I can't download the file.....boo....

Did you Click Link, enter 4-digit code, wait 45 seconds, and click on "Regular Download", which replaces the timer?

edit - to add that I've had issues with DL sites in the past.  Sometimes it's difficult to wade through ads to find the link.

As for the download, both sound great, and close.  I ultimately went with the first as well, but couldn't take a guess as to which gear it was.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 01:11:32 PM by AudBall »
mg m20.21.23 ■ akg ck61.62.63 »  nbob■naiant »  aercomp2 ■ v2-3 ■ sx-m2d2
dpa 4061 » mma-a.6000
d100 ■ r44ocm ■ f3

Offline Jhurlbs81

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2010, 01:18:46 PM »
who had the better seat?  :-\
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2010, 01:26:21 PM »
What were the gain settings on the recorders and tinybox?

Offline edtyre

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Re: Nbox/CMR Comp
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2010, 01:29:06 PM »
What were the gain settings on the recorders and tinybox?

tiny box was 28 db gain and 4 on the m10
nbox is 20 db gain fixed and 5+ on the m10
music>mics>pre>recorder

 

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