Topic: Neumann KM 140 opinions

[John Willett]

John--are you sure that there's a KK 120 capsule in the KM-A/KM-D series? The intention was announced to have such a capsule a long time ago, but have you ever seen a real one?)

Definitely yes - it's been available generally for about a year.

I saw the KK120 at the end of 2009 - several people have bought the Nextel KK120 and KM-A to use as the fig-8 in an MS rig with the Sennheiser MKH 8040.

One guy's rig pictured below:



He wrote it up with several pictures of the mic. rig on Gearslutz HERE.

[johnw]

Since the KM-A series was introduced after the Schoeps pattern on active accessories had expired, its approach to capsule construction can be more straightforward, and alternate capsules cost only about half as much as the "active" capsules of the KM 100 series.

Since the KK184 appears to contain no electronics does this mean the LC4 is a true "active cable" like the Schoeps offering?

Is there a MSRP list available somewhere? Using google I wasn't able to find a price for the KM-A or the LC4. I'd like to try and figure out the price difference between a pair of KM-A with the KK184 and LC4 cables and the older SKM140 pair. I'm guessing that none of the US distributors have these in stock but could get them as a special order item.

The KK184 in nextel is $700 from B&H and is essentially the same price as the Schoeps MK4. The Neumann AK40 is $800 from B&H.

From the pictures, it appears the KK184 capsule is much shorter than the AK40, but the LC4 capsule end is longer than the LC3 capsule end. It would be nice if Neumann were able to make their remote capsule option even more compact than previously offered with the AK series.

John do you know if Neumann plans to sell the KM-A with capsules and cables as part of a stereo matched kit?

[John Willett]

Since the KM-A series was introduced after the Schoeps pattern on active accessories had expired, its approach to capsule construction can be more straightforward, and alternate capsules cost only about half as much as the "active" capsules of the KM 100 series.

Since the KK184 appears to contain no electronics does this mean the LC4 is a true "active cable" like the Schoeps offering?

I didn't thinks so - but I'm not sure.

Is there a MSRP list available somewhere? Using google I wasn't able to find a price for the KM-A or the LC4. I'd like to try and figure out the price difference between a pair of KM-A with the KK184 and LC4 cables and the older SKM140 pair. I'm guessing that none of the US distributors have these in stock but could get them as a special order item.

The UK price list is on-line HERE.  It's no good for the US, but should enable you to do comparisons percentage-wise.

From the pictures, it appears the KK184 capsule is much shorter than the AK40, but the LC4 capsule end is longer than the LC3 capsule end. It would be nice if Neumann were able to make their remote capsule option even more compact than previously offered with the AK series.

I think the KM 184-D is the same size as the KM 184 - so the KM-A version would be the same.

John do you know if Neumann plans to sell the KM-A with capsules and cables as part of a stereo matched kit?

I don't know, I'm afraid.  I think Neumann will pair-match anything as a special order.

[johnw]

Thanks John! It appears neither the KM-A, nor the LC4 are on that price list. Perhaps they are still special order items.

[stevetoney]

My two cents on matching...

Not having matched capsules can result in a shift in the stereo imaging at different frequencies, depending on how mismatched the capsules are at what frequencies and the relative degree of mismatch at those frequencies.  The less the mismatch, the less the stereo image is shifted on the recording at that particular frequency.

I think that most people here on ts.com record music in the live setting, not in the studio.  In this situation, we typically point our stereo pair in some form or fashion towards the vicinity of the PA speakers.  When sound routing is through the PA, the stereo image is largely controlled by the panning/mixing done by the sound guy.  Even if the PA speakers aren't blasting, the sound coming through the PA is gonna shift the imaging of any recorded sound that comes from the stage.  So capsule matching doesn't really add any value to the typical live taping situation.

In situations where you might be live recording the stage amplified or acoustic instruments (no PA speakers), my recording situation is never so controlled that there won't be some degree of imperfection in the recording, whether people talking, less than ideal location, etc.  I'm really not all that worried about whether my stereo imaging has some shifting going on.

So sure, all things being equal, it's nice to have capsules that are matched.  However, for live recording, I don't personally put matching high on my list of priorities.  To me it's not even worth the extra $50 that Schoeps charges for matching, although I'd probably consider it for no other reason than to enhance resale.

That said, if I were using my mics in the studio where you have complete control, I may have a different perspective on the subject.

[John Willett]

Thanks John! It appears neither the KM-A, nor the LC4 are on that price list. Perhaps they are still special order items.

The KM-A is at the top of page 4.

The LC4 has been a standard product for a while.  It's probably Sennheiser UK not being very good at doing price lists properly and including the new accessories.  All the stands, extension tubes and remote cables for the KM-D/KM-A series are missing from the price list as well. 

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

I had no idea there was a newer version of the 140 available.  What planet have I been on?  Seems hard to get though?  I'm confused.  But would love to see pics with the remotes!

[johnw]

Thanks John! It appears neither the KM-A, nor the LC4 are on that price list. Perhaps they are still special order items.

The KM-A is at the top of page 4.

The LC4 has been a standard product for a while.  It's probably Sennheiser UK not being very good at doing price lists properly and including the new accessories.  All the stands, extension tubes and remote cables for the KM-D/KM-A series are missing from the price list as well. 

Sorry for the oversight.
So rough prices after VAT based on google conversion rate:

KM184A nx (card cap and body combo) $1568
KM140 $1645
KM184 $1094
kk185 (hyper cap only) $1006
km185 $1210

That price on the km184 is about 15% higher than actual retail price based on a google shopping search. Factoring in a 15% adjustment brings the KM184A down to $1330. Not bad really and certainly competitive with Schoeps CMC line.

[hi and lo]

I loved my skm140s... regret selling them to this day

[John Willett]

I had no idea there was a newer version of the 140 available.  What planet have I been on?  Seems hard to get though?  I'm confused.  But would love to see pics with the remotes!

For the KM-D/KM-A series, Neumann use the same system as Sennheiser - the base, uprights and swivel are the same.

The extension tubes and remote cables are almost the same - the only difference being that the screw connectors on each end are different.

I can't find any pictures of the Neumann - but here is my MKH 8020 stereoset which uses the same stand.

NB - this picture shows two heads on the top of the stand on a stereo bar - normally you would have a single capsule, which would be much smaller and unobtrusive.

[easyed]

I would also look at the new KM-A series.

The KM 100 series is very old.

So what if it is old and actually it is not really that old, relatively speaking. Some would say that it is not old enough and that the KM84's were a better sounding mic. They certainly go for much more on the used market. Most of the mics I long for are old mics.

If you are looking for a modular design then you should pick up a pair of 140's and sell your 184's. As for sound difference, very little, if any. Both sound great and can capture a fantastic stereo recording! They also can be found for around a $1,000 a pair if you look and wait. However, if you want to wow the jazz crowd then drop some more cash on a really old mic, like the KM84's. Just make sure they are clean and in good operating condition. Most jazz artist covet this mic and will give you some props for having it.

BTW, I have some mics that are matched pairs and some that aren't. As long as the mic is from a quality manufacturer you can easly get away with a random pair. Just test them out before hand to ensure they are within spec.

I have made multitrack recordings using close miking of artists like David Grisman, Mike Marshall and Bob Brozman who travel with their own KM84s and who feel, like most people do, that they are vastly superior to KM184s.  I now own Beyerdynamic MC930s and CK930s (caps separate from bodies) and have put them up for Mike Marshall to compare, blind: he has chosen the Beyerdynamics.  You might want to consider them (the CK930s).  Beyer was a contemporary and friend of George Neumann.  Beyerdynamic CK930s - sound like KM84s but lower noise and higher output.