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Author Topic: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison  (Read 20669 times)

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Offline JAH

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2005, 08:25:52 AM »
just checked the file and it shows them as FET based...actualy there were 3 different configurations of fet boards..the orig, then one w/ RF decoupling caps and a drop down R (orig must have been too sensitive), then a third to correct the phase difference from when they switched from electret membrane to back electret technique.

another bit of useless knowledge :P

peace
jah



The "User Instructions" that came with my CK1X capsules read: "Permanently charged condenser capsule design in well-proven CMS technology."  It also has the polar response grids and the technical data for the capsules.  If you don't have one already, it may be good info for your file.

I don't see any reference to FET in the booklet, but then again, I don't understand that stuff very well.

Permanetly charged???  No Idea what that means or what cms is ??? as long as you like 'em that's what counts  :D

Permanantly charged is referring to the style of electret condensor.. ie. Permanantly Charged Back Electret. Instead of getting an electrical charge to the microphone capsule with phantom, these electret mics diaphragm's are made from a material that has a permanent electrical charge. You still need a body to act as a preamp and alot of these were run off battery (an example would be the NAK CM300's or the Senn ME).  So with the AKG's the active head is permantly charged and the 48v is really only operating the body. I got this info straight from AKG.  My understanding from the email that is the way they had to be. Something about the bodies not originally being made to support an active head.  I sent along a bunch of questions to them once (My main question was if they still serviced any of the active components, which unfortunately they no longer do).  But all P.C. Back electrets arent like the NAK and Senn (mid level mics).  They have some very quality ones as well, I found a website which enlightend me to the fact that a bunch of B&K mics were back electret, the Shure KSM32 is also back electret, The Crown CM700, also mics like the AKGC-1000 (which is more at the level of the NAK 300 and the Senn's).

I was thinking something along those line but, dynamic came to mind if a phantom was not required.  So I just left it at "I don't know"  I thought all condensors of today were back electric, meaning the charge is on the back plate vice the diaphram...just a thought out of ingnorance ;-)

thanks for the info.
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Offline ts

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2005, 10:40:53 AM »
I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

I've never heard an A/B of mod 460's vs. 480's, so I can't comment. But I do agree with the above that mod 460's are transparent and detailed and this is a big improvement over the stock 460's. JW compared the mod to when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop. Another effect of the mod is extended bass response and when talking to JW about the mod, he stressed the need really good wind screens.

Iv'e only used my modded 460's once, but the ear popping thing is a pretty good, straight forward description. What about his windscreen comment? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Good beefy screens just attenuate the highs even more. Is he saying that the mod can make them a tad bright and that "good screens" will compensate for it. After one use(large DPA screens on CK1x caps) I didn't think they were bright enough. Just my opinion.

Tony

I've used the JWmod 460's a bunch of times now, with both the CK1x caps and the CK61 and 63's. My comment about not being bright enough was way wrong. I'm still on the fence about stock 460's or modded ones. It may be that the JW 460's>V3 is not the best combo, but the JW 460's sound like stock 460's on steroids, if you know what I mean. The low end is very nice and full, much better than the stocks, but the high end is very bright, fatiguing to listen to at high volumes. I used the big Shure wind screens and at outdoor show and it helped tremendously with the bright highs, but it would look kinda stupid using them indoors.

Offline sygdwm

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2005, 10:58:46 AM »
i dont think it looks stupid running big screeens indoors. it helps w/ HVAC systems and esp. smoke.  i ran my dpa screens ALWAYS.
mics: (4)akg c460b(a60,mk46,ck1x,ck1,ck2,ck3,ck61,ck63)
pres: oade m148/edirol wmod ua5
recorders: marantz stock671/oade acm671/fostex busman vintage fr2le

(P.S.: On a threaded discussion board like this one, there's no need to repeat someone's post when you reply to them; everyone can see all the messages in the thread.)

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2005, 11:00:30 AM »
i dont think it looks stupid running big screeens indoors. it helps w/ HVAC systems and esp. smoke. i ran my dpa screens ALWAYS.

Agreed.  And besides - who cares what it looks like, as long as you're happy with the result?
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Offline johnw

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2005, 12:43:59 PM »
I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

I've never heard an A/B of mod 460's vs. 480's, so I can't comment. But I do agree with the above that mod 460's are transparent and detailed and this is a big improvement over the stock 460's. JW compared the mod to when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop. Another effect of the mod is extended bass response and when talking to JW about the mod, he stressed the need really good wind screens.

Iv'e only used my modded 460's once, but the ear popping thing is a pretty good, straight forward description. What about his windscreen comment? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Good beefy screens just attenuate the highs even more. Is he saying that the mod can make them a tad bright and that "good screens" will compensate for it. After one use(large DPA screens on CK1x caps) I didn't think they were bright enough. Just my opinion.

Tony

I've used the JWmod 460's a bunch of times now, with both the CK1x caps and the CK61 and 63's. My comment about not being bright enough was way wrong. I'm still on the fence about stock 460's or modded ones. It may be that the JW 460's>V3 is not the best combo, but the JW 460's sound like stock 460's on steroids, if you know what I mean. The low end is very nice and full, much better than the stocks, but the high end is very bright, fatiguing to listen to at high volumes. I used the big Shure wind screens and at outdoor show and it helped tremendously with the bright highs, but it would look kinda stupid using them indoors.

Maybe try a warmer preamp?
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Offline ts

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2005, 01:02:56 PM »
I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

I've never heard an A/B of mod 460's vs. 480's, so I can't comment. But I do agree with the above that mod 460's are transparent and detailed and this is a big improvement over the stock 460's. JW compared the mod to when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop. Another effect of the mod is extended bass response and when talking to JW about the mod, he stressed the need really good wind screens.

Iv'e only used my modded 460's once, but the ear popping thing is a pretty good, straight forward description. What about his windscreen comment? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Good beefy screens just attenuate the highs even more. Is he saying that the mod can make them a tad bright and that "good screens" will compensate for it. After one use(large DPA screens on CK1x caps) I didn't think they were bright enough. Just my opinion.

Tony

I've used the JWmod 460's a bunch of times now, with both the CK1x caps and the CK61 and 63's. My comment about not being bright enough was way wrong. I'm still on the fence about stock 460's or modded ones. It may be that the JW 460's>V3 is not the best combo, but the JW 460's sound like stock 460's on steroids, if you know what I mean. The low end is very nice and full, much better than the stocks, but the high end is very bright, fatiguing to listen to at high volumes. I used the big Shure wind screens and at outdoor show and it helped tremendously with the bright highs, but it would look kinda stupid using them indoors.

Maybe try a warmer preamp?
I like the V3 way too much. Id' go back to stock 460's first. I really liked that combo. The CK6x caps don't seem to be as bright as the CK1x caps and the big screens did help. Maybe the perfect answer would be to pick up a pair of unmodded 460 bodies just for use with the CK1x caps and use the JW's with the CK6x caps.  8)

Offline thegreatgumbino

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2005, 01:49:03 PM »
I like the V3 way too much. Id' go back to stock 460's first. I really liked that combo. The CK6x caps don't seem to be as bright as the CK1x caps and the big screens did help. Maybe the perfect answer would be to pick up a pair of unmodded 460 bodies just for use with the CK1x caps and use the JW's with the CK6x caps.  8)

Fozzy's got yer stock 460 bodies for sale.  You might see if he'll work a deal for you.
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Offline thegreatgumbino

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2005, 01:52:26 PM »
Hopefully, OFOTD and I will be able to perform this comparison at ACL in a couple weeks.  I picked up a second pair of stock 461's, my other pair are in JW's hands for the mod as we speak.  OFOTD run 480's.  We're hoping to run 460 / JW mod 460 / 480 > MiAGi silvers > V3 comparisions.  We'll see how it goes.  Anyone attending ACL that has MiAGi silvers > V3 that wants to help out with the comparision for a set or two?
It’s not what you look like when you’re doin’ what you’re doin’, it’s what your doin’ when you’re doin’ what you look like your doin’…express yourself. - Charles Wright

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Offline thegreatgumbino

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2005, 02:04:53 PM »
m148
It’s not what you look like when you’re doin’ what you’re doin’, it’s what your doin’ when you’re doin’ what you look like your doin’…express yourself. - Charles Wright

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Offline Chuck

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2005, 02:31:33 PM »
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
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Offline johnw

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2005, 03:08:14 PM »
An MP2 might warm it up also and is even cheaper.
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Offline Chris K

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2005, 04:05:07 PM »
An MP2 might warm it up also and is even cheaper.

word

mp-2 > modSBM-1

 :headphones:
My gear: JK Labs AKG DVC > M10
              AKG 460 ck61/ck62/ck63 > DR-70D
             
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Offline goose

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2005, 06:28:48 PM »
I think the brick is in a league of it's own, and the psp-2 is merely a very nice preamp, nothing great. the oade smokes it imho, the psp-2 might be a distant cousin but not really a little brother so to speak ;)

save up the extra scratch and getta brick!

i like the 148 better also, but it's like comparing the t-mod+ ua5 to the v3.
psp2 > t-mod+ ua5 = ~$1000
148 > v3 = ~$2200

for me & my limited budget (i.e college student) it's a no brainer. for everyone with real jobs, maybe the 148>v3 is the better choice. my overall goal is to have the ability run transparent when i want to, or warm up the rig when i want to by running the eaa. the psp2 allows me to do that & the fact i can use it when i stealth tape is an added bonus. hell, i just sent my w-mod ua5 in today so i can get it (+) modded by doug. i want to see how that sounds compared to the psp2>t-mod+ recordings, & 148>mod sbm1 recordings i have. not many people have the (+) mod applied to their w-mod, & i'm hoping that it solves the minor "bloatiness" i hear with the straight w-mod.
 :)
tim


Tim,

I find it funny that you say you are on a budget, but have 3 sets of mics, 2 Oade +mod UA5s, silver cables, and probably multiple capture devices.  You could easily sell some of that equipment to cover the difference in prices between desired preamps.  :)

I think you may have a different opinion of the m148/psp2 comparison when you have actually run both with your equipment, rather than just listening to tapes using the preamps.  I have found that to be true, at least.

YMMV

Offline spyder9

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2005, 07:58:39 PM »
Goose,

Timbo is just a nasty slut!   ;D

Offline ts

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Re: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2005, 08:18:50 AM »
what does a psp2 look like?

 

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