Topic: Schoeps Mid-Side

[Jamos]

Hey peeps.

I just picked up an mk8 capsule and am going to be running it M/S with an mk4 and cmc6 bodies.  I don't have any active cables.

I'm looking for a good, simple, solid shockmount set up for the two mics.

The idea of the superlux's zipped together is kinda what I'm after, but maybe a little less ghetto?
If I do go this way, I might get one Avantone SSM shock since it's a much more heavy duty.

Anyone have any more ideas?

[Nick's Picks]

I think a sabra system might work out

[KLowe]

I have a schoeps AMS-22 mount (full size mic M/S mount).




It needs a new clip in the middle (post-horn for 20 bucks).

I'll let her go for 90 bucks.

[Nick's Picks]

I know you can buy those double clips.  find one and then after both mics are in, you stuff them both in a sabra.
thats where my thoughts were headed any way

[Jamos]

Thanks for the suggestions and offers, guys...
I've inquired with Jerry at Posthorn to see if the double clip can be purchased individually.
I already have an AT shockmount  that I think the double clip can be fit into...if not, then a Sabra SSM would probably be perfect.

I also found these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/497702-REG/Rycote_048466_48466_21RD_21RD_21RD_21RD.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/497681-REG/Rycote_048457_48457_19RD_19RD_19RD_19RD.html

But I know the cmc6 is 20mm, not 19mm or 21mm like the two rycote options above.

Will a 21mm mount work?

I'm sure this has been covered before, so sorry to rehash, but I'm unsure.

[Matt Quinn]

Save for the difference in frequency response between a Fig8 and a normal directional (card, subcard...etc.., I'm just wondering how this would be better than just turning a blumline rig on its side and running it through a ms decoder. Certainly an easier set up, no?

Figure-8s Mid-Side and decoded 50/50 becomes Blumlein.  Changing the ratio of Mid to Side during decoding just changes the included angle of the resulting figure-8 patterns; it doesn't change the resulting stereo L/R figure-8 patterns.  The attached image shows a pair of figure-8s set up Mid-Side and the resulting sum and difference (L and R channels) after decoding to stereo.  You can see how the different ratios simply change the included angle, and not the resulting pattern.  (Table lifted from a paper posted earlier in the thread.)

Single MS with figure-8s allows the user to adjust <a> the front and rear lobes of the Mid channel together, and <b> the left and right lobes of the Side channel together.  Double MS with forward-facing cardioid Mid, rear-facing cardioid Mid, and Side figure-8 allows the user to adjust <d> the front Mid independently, <e> the rear Mid independently, and <f> the left and ride lobes of the Side together.  It's this ability to independently adjust the rear Mid channel that allows one to control reverberant sound separately from stereo width.

In single MS, any reduction of the orange Mid's rear lobe signal would also reduce the orange Mid's forward lobe signal (see attached single MS image ms-single-schoeps.jpg).  In the attached double MS image (ms-double-schoeps2.jpg), you can see that I've reduced the green rear-facing Mid relative to the orange front-facing Mid and yellow Side.  It's this independent control of the rear-facing Mid in double MS that allows one to adjust reverberant sound independently of stereo width:  adjust the rear-facing Mid to control reverberant sound, and adjust the Side to control stereo width.  Again, I'm assuming a lot here, and need to dig a little bit to make sure my assumptions regarding the rear-facing mid and decoding are correct.

If that is correct, it is wildly cool. 

[beanstalk]

Thanks for the suggestions and offers, guys...
I've inquired with Jerry at Posthorn to see if the double clip can be purchased individually.
I already have an AT shockmount  that I think the double clip can be fit into...if not, then a Sabra SSM would probably be perfect.

I also found these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/497702-REG/Rycote_048466_48466_21RD_21RD_21RD_21RD.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/497681-REG/Rycote_048457_48457_19RD_19RD_19RD_19RD.html

But I know the cmc6 is 20mm, not 19mm or 21mm like the two rycote options above.

Will a 21mm mount work?

I'm sure this has been covered before, so sorry to rehash, but I'm unsure.

This might work if it can be turned which I've been wondering if it does rotate.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/147531-REG/AKG_H300_H_300_Clip_for.html

[Matt Quinn]

I've been thinking about this double M/S stuff, and wondering how it all gets recorded. There are 3 channels to deal with, yes? So you record the output of the 3 mics, then load up the 3 tracks in a multitrack editor & mix to taste?

Has anyone here ever actually run double M/S? I am just completely intrigued by the concept.

[KLowe]

I'm pretty sure you record 3 tracks independently.  Load up the plug-in to your audio editor of choice and Play away.
I think the program gives you the ability to 5.1 stereo surround or 2 channel stereo.

I am VERY tempted to run a double M/S for Bisco next weekend.

keep us informed with your results.

Kevin

[fozzy]

I've been looking into the double M/S as well.  With the schoeps mount the lower/rear 4v is pointed at all the shockmount junk.
This seems less than desirable.

[KLowe]

I've been looking into the double M/S as well.  With the schoeps mount the lower/rear 4v is pointed at all the shockmount junk.
This seems less than desirable.

Time for a Ghetto Rig on dat ass!!!

[Matt Quinn]

I'm pretty sure you record 3 tracks independently.  Load up the plug-in to your audio editor of choice and Play away.
I think the program gives you the ability to 5.1 stereo surround or 2 channel stereo.

I am VERY tempted to run a double M/S for Bisco next weekend.

keep us informed with your results.

Kevin

 


Nice, I'm trying like heck to make it down for those! 

[Jamos]

I started another thread with this pic too, but thought I'd throw it up here since this was where my initial question came up.

This is what I came up with.

[DSatz]

The_Tube, Schoeps has a couple of short three-track recordings on their Web site which you can download and use their VST plug-in to mix to stereo if you want. To get at them, sign up for the plug-in (it's free but you have to register), then you get access to the recordings. It's not complicated and it's very interesting.

As for the rear-facing cardioid looking into shock mount junk, I think the angle of the photograph is maybe a little deceiving because I've seen this rig in real life and it didn't look that way to me, if I recall it correctly. I'll see whether there's another photo around.

--best regards

[fozzy]

As for the rear-facing cardioid looking into shock mount junk, I think the angle of the photograph is maybe a little deceiving because I've seen this rig in real life and it didn't look that way to me, if I recall it correctly. I'll see whether there's another photo around.

--best regards

that would be awesome, the picture is deceiving.  I would love to pick up a 744T and run a mk8/ccm8 into one of the pres and use the lemosax into the line inputs.

I like the idea of a rycote w/ a furry rather than engineering a custom setup.