Topic: Recording SBD using Zoom H2

[checht]

yes

[jefflester]

A pair of Hosa Technology GXP246 Stereo Male 1/4" Phone to Male 3-Pin XLR Adapters will work, plug into the 'main' outs. Then plug your existing adapter in and you're good.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/252359-REG/Hosa_Technology_GXP_246_GXP246_Stereo_Phone_to.html?ap=y&smp=y&smpm=ba_f2_ll&srsltid=Ad5pg_E4ghC3XSm_JyV_yZkIOln5Vu0WEfn6GghFPS6HsbnvDDCZpfdsAIc


You might want to put together a SBD adapters kit, so you can get signal in any situation with any house gear. Dumped mine out on the desk, pics below. I've slowly added to the bag, may be some duplication, but it's a small thing compared to the total mass of stuff I lug into the venue...

Pic 1:
1: 2 x xlrf to 1/8m like you have
2: 2 x rcam to 1/8f
3: 10db attenuating 2 x rcam to 1/8m
4: 10' 1/8m to 1/8m
5: 18" 1/8m to 1/8m
6: Hosa Male TRS 1/4" to XLRM I recommend above
  pic 2
7: 1/4trs to rcaf - the 2 of em are above and below #8
8: 1/4trs to 1/8f - headphone converter, a couple times I've had to run headphone out, ugh
9: rcaf to rcaf gender converters
10: 2 x rcaf to 1/8 male
11: 1/8f to 1/9f gender converter

Funny enough, that was the first thing that ran through my mind once I realized I didn't have the right cable, "I need to make sure I have every possible connection so I never have to worry about that happening again". So your list is a huge help, I'll look through it and try to find as much as I can, thanks!

EDIT- I had another singer I want to record send me her SBD, and this is what it looks like. I would just plug in to the top right, correct?



And would it matter which cable goes in to which port (L/R)?

The XLRs in top right will most certainly be in use for the PA. If so, use the two 1/4" right below them. R/L does technically matter, but likely none of the channels are going to be panned anyway on such a small board.

[goodcooker]

On boards like that last one pictured I use the "control room outs" even if one of the main outputs is available.

It's good to have a separate level control that won't affect the main outputs at all - especially if you are using a mini jack recorder input that may overload if you can't attenuate it.

re: panning - on a board like that one you can just look at the row of pan knobs. If everything is at 12:00 it's running in mono and it doesn't matter (except for effects that use stereo panning). If things are panned right/left make sure your cables are plugged in correctly. You prob should be in the habit of making sure your R/L channels are always plugged in correctly anyway no matter what. Mark them with tape and a sharpie or a colored sticker with red for right if they aren't labeled already.

My usual bag of tricks is pretty simple -
long RCA to mini cable
RCA to 1/4 adapters
mini to mini female turnaround adapter
long mini to mini cable
also
1/4 to XLRM cables and 1/4 to XLRF cables

If I'm patching soundboards I'm almost always taking balanced XLR connections and running mics too into a multitrack recorder but I have all the stuff mentioned above in a crown royal bag ready for just taking a feed into mini recorder if needed.

[Dan33185]

On boards like that last one pictured I use the "control room outs" even if one of the main outputs is available.

It's good to have a separate level control that won't affect the main outputs at all - especially if you are using a mini jack recorder input that may overload if you can't attenuate it.

I did buy this attenuator...so I'd be connecting it like: Zoom H2 > XLR  to 3.5 MM adapter > Attenuator > 1/4" Phone to XLR Adapter > SBD. Would I need an additional attenuator for the 1/4" adapter?


Also, maybe a dumb question...L/R isn't marked at all on either cable I have...is there a way to tell which is which, or basically just wait until it's plugged in and see which channel is active for each side?

[morst]

So many things to say here, but if this is the original Zoom H2, then the line input should not exceed .775 volts (peak I think!)
I used the Core-Sound -11 dB mini-to-mini attenuator for my successful recordings with it, starting AFTER I botched the meat puppets in fall 2007 by not knowing about the limited input levels on the ORIGINAL ZOOM H2. (not the N)
https://www.core-sound.com/shop/attenuator-cables

You can test the channels of your cable at home - if you tap on an exposed cable end, it often produces a buzz, which can be used to verify left-right channel assignment at the very least.
many boards have control room out as RCA
The photo of the "full" board you show has a totally unused mono Aux 2 bus with all the mix knobs turned down. That could be employed to created a mono output mix in a pinch WITH THE TOTAL COOPERATION OF THE SOUND CREW.
If using the Zoom H2, there is exactly one best setting for input level, and I do'nt recall if it was 80/100 or what, but any setting other than that number would created a sub-optimal signal chain, either adding digital gain with a bit of noise or digitally attenuating, while adding a bit of noise...
Ozpeter and I "met" on the Zoom board so he might recall the correct answer faster than I can find it.


Good luck and let us know if you are using the H2N, it's rather different than the old "electric shaver!"

[Dan33185]

So many things to say here, but if this is the original Zoom H2, then the line input should not exceed .775 volts (peak I think!)
I used the Core-Sound -11 dB mini-to-mini attenuator for my successful recordings with it, starting AFTER I botched the meat puppets in fall 2007 by not knowing about the limited input levels on the ORIGINAL ZOOM H2. (not the N)
https://www.core-sound.com/shop/attenuator-cables

You can test the channels of your cable at home - if you tap on an exposed cable end, it often produces a buzz, which can be used to verify left-right channel assignment at the very least.
many boards have control room out as RCA
The photo of the "full" board you show has a totally unused mono Aux 2 bus with all the mix knobs turned down. That could be employed to created a mono output mix in a pinch WITH THE TOTAL COOPERATION OF THE SOUND CREW.
If using the Zoom H2, there is exactly one best setting for input level, and I do'nt recall if it was 80/100 or what, but any setting other than that number would created a sub-optimal signal chain, either adding digital gain with a bit of noise or digitally attenuating, while adding a bit of noise...
Ozpeter and I "met" on the Zoom board so he might recall the correct answer faster than I can find it.


Good luck and let us know if you are using the H2N, it's rather different than the old "electric shaver!"

I am using the original H2, not the H2N, so basically it looks like a shaver as you said. I'm trying to keep up as best as I can, a lot of this is like Latin to me though  I ordered a few parts I think should be adaptable to the 2 SBD's I'm trying to use right now, I'll ask here if I have more questions. Thanks for the help!

[Gutbucket]

On boards like that last one pictured I use the "control room outs" even if one of the main outputs is available.

Was going to suggest this as well.  Always with the clearance and cooperation of whoever is responsible for running sound. That provides the same mix as the Main Outs but allows you or the board-operator to set the level of the "control room out" as needed to your recorder, AND remain unchanged even if the main-out level to the PA gets adjusted before/during the performance.  This is relatively simple and easy to do. 

Another even simpler way to achieve that is to record via the headphone out, which should work fine, assuming it is not being used.  This is often the best option if you are unsure how to work the mixer, and to minimize the burden on whoever is responsible for running sound.

To use the control room outs on that Mackie GigFX mixer you'd plug into the 1/4" output jacks marked "control room", and adjust level via the pot marked "control room" just above the (green) FX pot.  You may also need to turn the "blend" pot just above that all the way counter-clockwise (to inputs) and maybe push the "to phones/cr" button located between the two.  As long as you touch nothing else, nothing can potentially get screwed up by doing that.

On the Mackie 1402VLZ setting up the correct control room out routing is more complicated and could potentially screw up the main output.  Tread carefully.  Best to have whoever is responsible do it so that you don't screw it up.

On that small Tuga PR6X mixer there is no control room out.  Easy to use the headphone out though.

The photo of the "full" board you show has a totally unused mono Aux 2 bus with all the mix knobs turned down. That could be employed to created a mono output mix in a pinch

This can be the best option, but is somewhat more complicated.  Like the above options it also provides a separate output at whatever level you want, which can remain unchanged during the performance, BUT ALSO can be a mix that is different than what is sent to the Main Outs.  Its more complicated because that mix needs to be dialed in separately, but advantageous in that it could contain whatever you want and not what you don't.  It could for instance be only vocals, which might be the best way to go if you can't really listen to the mix while dialing it in (and is generally what you need most from a SBD feed). All of the above boards are capable of this, although if there are on-stage monitors in use for the band which are being by the AUX Send of the mixer, only the 1402VLZ has a second set that might remain available for this.

WITH THE TOTAL COOPERATION OF THE SOUND CREW

^Always!

[eman]

I don't see it suggested here a lot, but most modern boards you can record direct to USB memory stick. It needs to be set up same as the line out, and the FOH may already be using it but worth a shot and does not require rooting around the back of the board.

[morst]

I am using the original H2, not the H2N, so basically it looks like a shaver as you said. I'm trying to keep up as best as I can, a lot of this is like Latin to me though  I ordered a few parts I think should be adaptable to the 2 SBD's I'm trying to use right now, I'll ask here if I have more questions. Thanks for the help!

I'll scan this old thread and see if I can be more specific about the optimal input level setting.  Ozpeter says it was 100/127, see quote below:
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=89082.0

Likewise the input voltage should be listed in the actual specs, yeah they are using 0.775v as RMS which is a type of average.
https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_H2.pdf

There's two things to consider when setting levels on the H2 - first, the level at the mic preamp, and second, the level after the analog to digital converter.  If you get the first one wrong, there's nothing you can do with the second to put it right.

The first level control is the three position switch.  If the little light flashes, reduce the level at the switch.  If the light flashes when on the lowest setting, the level reaching the mics is too high for them to cope with.  Move back if you can, or get the performers to play more quietly!

The 1-127 control is simply amplifying (positive or negative) the digits coming out of the analog to digital converter.  It seems from comments elsewhere that a level of 100 neither amplifies nor reduces level - it's the "straight through" setting.  If you reduce the level below 100 to try to cope with overloads, you'll probably not succeed because the overload has already happened at the mic preamp.  So, don't set a level below 100.  If you increase the level above 100, you're doing the same as using digital zoom on a camera, which is generally held to be a Bad Thing - there's no point in doing it in the H2 if you have the opportunity later to do it in PC audio software.  The outcome will be exactly the same.  If you increase the level in the H2 you might overdo it leading to digital clipping and distortion.  But if you do it in the PC later, your software should be able to scan the already-recorded file and "normalise" it so that the highest peaks exactly reach the top of the meter scale.  You're working with the benefit of hindsight.

The same applies to the limiters etc within the H2 - they apparently work in the digital domain and the only time they should be used is if you can't use a PC to do the same thing later.  So, if you are playing back direct from the H2 and don't have the means to post process the audio in a PC, then use the limiters and increase the level above 100 if you want.  But if you are going to use your PC software for postproduction, leave everything "flat" when recording (level at 100, all effects off), because you can't undo those operations later if you've recorded them in the H2.

Note that all the above comes from reading the net and the manual - I still await the arrival of the H2 here in Australia - so if anyone who has an H2 can correct my advice, go for it!

[Gutbucket]

I don't see it suggested here a lot, but most modern boards you can record direct to USB memory stick. It needs to be set up same as the line out, and the FOH may already be using it but worth a shot and does not require rooting around the back of the board.

Yeah this!  Easy to keep a couple freshly formatted ones in the bag.

[Dan33185]

So I'm starting to accumulate what I need for different soundboards, and I'm finding it might not be practical. Here's my setup for recording from a SBD that has 1/4" connection like posted previously:



As you can see, 1. it looks ridiculous (the length from the end of the cable to the tip of the plug-in is 9 inches), and 2. it's probably not practical to plug in something that size in most situations. I'm wondering if I would be better off just buying a cheap recorder that would allow me to plug an XLR cable directly in to it, and if that would avoid the need for the attenuator? Or would I need that regardless of which recorder I use?

[Gutbucket]

^ Probably.  Most recorders that feature XLR inputs can accept a hot line-level input without external attentuators.  Take a look at the Zoom F3

The arrangement pictured above is way too awkward and puts a lot of stress on the board's 1/4" output jacks. An alternate option with your current setup would be to use XLR cables between the 1/4" plug and the attenuators.  Use a long enough cable so that you can keep the attenuators in the same bag as the recorder.

[Dan33185]

^ Probably.  Most recorders that feature XLR inputs can accept a hot line-level input without external attentuators.  Take a look at the Zoom F3

The arrangement pictured above is way too awkward and puts a lot of stress on the board's 1/4" output jacks. An alternate option with your current setup would be to use XLR cables between the 1/4" plug and the attenuators.  Use a long enough cable so that you can keep the attenuators in the same bag as the recorder.

The Zoom looks a little out of my price range...opinions on the Tascam DR-60D? There's one for sale for 100 bucks in Yard Sale in good condition.

[Gutbucket]

Sure, that recorder will accept a +4dBu line level output without external attenuation.

[vanark]

Sure, that recorder will accept a +4dBu line level output without external attenuation.

If feeding the board feed into the channel 3/4 1/8" jack, I find I generally need 10-15 dB attenuation. I've got plenty of nice matrixes, but always with attenuation on the SBD on channel 3/4 and mics on 1/2.