Topic: I need help with my first pair of mics

[yltfan]

Re: the upgrade bug

Apart from the crappy, un-sellable Sony stereo mic in my collection, the upgrade bug does not need to be very costly (unless you end up keeping everything). Seems to me that most good mics tend to hold their value pretty well, as long as you take care of them, and get a good deal to begin with.

So my advice is different. Just grab those km184's in the Yard Sale, or these crazy looking bad boys: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=140946.0 or whatever else has some good reviews and is a good deal.

Try them out, and if you're not happy, trade 'em in for some Schoeps or AKG's. I bet any of these mics will hold their value here on TS, and if necessary, you could head over to Fleabay, where the prices are even higher (take a peak at km184's over there, for example).

[stevetoney]

Re: the upgrade bug

Apart from the crappy, un-sellable Sony stereo mic in my collection, the upgrade bug does not need to be very costly (unless you end up keeping everything). Seems to me that most good mics tend to hold their value pretty well, as long as you take care of them, and get a good deal to begin with.

So my advice is different. Just grab those km184's in the Yard Sale, or these crazy looking bad boys: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=140946.0 or whatever else has some good reviews and is a good deal.

Try them out, and if you're not happy, trade 'em in for some Schoeps or AKG's. I bet any of these mics will hold their value here on TS, and if necessary, you could head over to Fleabay, where the prices are even higher (take a peak at km184's over there, for example).

^^ I agree with this recommendation.

You'll only know what you like by trying it out.  It's great to listen to samples to try and hone in on what you might like and rule out what you might not, but in the end until you put the gear in your own hands and try it out in the places you will be taping, you really won't know ahead of time what you like and what you don't...so I like the advice to buy used in the YS.  If you don't like what you bought, you can turn it around later for the same price you bought it for (minus postage and paypal fees).  Just stick with gear that has good resale such as the major brands (AKG, Neumann, etc)...don't buy oddball stuff that won't have a very wide appeal to the mass market or else it might take alot longer to sell.

Until you know for sure what you want, I'd avoid buying new because the new gear depreciates straight out of the box, but used gear retains its value.  If you're patient, you'll find gear that you want and you'll sell gear you want to sell.  It just sometimes takes time. 

In general, you can trust the Yard Sale much more than ebay because this is a community and we take care of each other, so while ripoffs can happen in the YS, they're not very frequent...and you will AT LEAST get the satisfaction that if you get hosed, you'll have an entire community coming to your defense and the perp will also be needing to save face in the same community, both in cyberspace and at the gig.

Finally, if I had exactly $1000 to spend and wanted to get the best mics that a grand can buy on the used market, for my ears I'd put the grand towards either a pair of Neumann KM184, a pair of AKG-480 with cardioid capsules, or a pair of MBHO 603a with cardioid capsules (although the MBHO's aren't seen too often in the YS).

[AmazingPudding]

first find the sound u like, and go in that direction.  if u cant afford what u really want, try to wait till u can. 

I have spent all morning listening to some of my favorite artists in the LMA. I have determined what I really like in my budget, rather than what i like overall. Before I get to what I like, let me state my point on new vs. used: My father is a retired engineer who used to work for Bruel & Kjaer (B&K) when they still had their pro audio division. As a Field Application Engineer who sold many (sound measurement) microphones he has advised me that I should buy NEW as mics are a very fragile and delicate instrument and a newbie like me may not be able to see(or hear) flaws in a used mic. That being said...I am very impressed with the sound of the following mics:

Beyerdynamic MC930 - this was by far my favorite inthe $500 category

I also like the sound and versatility of the Busman BSC1 with switchable caps

and I am intrigued by the Rode NT4 which sound great as well.

I would now like to ask for feedback by those of you who use any of these mics.  Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I AM ALMOST THERE!!!!!

[rastasean]

Statistically speaking, I don't know but I would say 96-99.9% of all microphones in the yard sale have been taken VERY, EXTREMELY good care of. Occasionally microphones do get dented and the paint chips but we like our microphones so they are usually treated better than our bodies. Buying new is nice if you can afford it and are paranoid about the fragileness of the microphone but if that's the case, I wouldn't bother taking it outside of a studio. We expose our microphones to conditions and events young children are usually not able to attend and excellent recordings are made.

The NT4 is neat looking but I think there are better microphones you can shop around for. That mic would be better used in a studio for a guitar or folly work...I have heard great audience recordings from it, though. If you're interested in single point stereo, check out the Studio Projects LSD-2.

[burris]

If you like 414's and have $1000 then get the 214's since they are cardioid-only 414's.

[PeteJE]

Statistically speaking, I don't know but I would say 96-99.9% of all microphones in the yard sale have been taken VERY, EXTREMELY good care of. Occasionally microphones do get dented and the paint chips but we like our microphones so they are usually treated better than our bodies. Buying new is nice if you can afford it and are paranoid about the fragileness of the microphone but if that's the case, I wouldn't bother taking it outside of a studio. We expose our microphones to conditions and events young children are usually not able to attend and excellent recordings are made.

The NT4 is neat looking but I think there are better microphones you can shop around for. That mic would be better used in a studio for a guitar or folly work...I have heard great audience recordings from it, though. If you're interested in single point stereo, check out the Studio Projects LSD-2.

I tend to agree here.  Many years ago I worked in a large scoring facility both as a stage asst. and mixer.  We had a walk-in mic closet with several hundred K worth of now vintage mics - all the majors.  Some would be shocked at the "handling" these work horses could take.  Used day in and day out, set up and down on two stages with sometimes two sessions a day.  They continued to sound great, we had very little failures or sonic issues with them compared to the use and abuse some received - some very good sounding scores came out of these mics in very rough service for over a decade.

[ArchivalAudio]

ok just slightly of the $1G point but the Milab VM 44 links are a great contender.
or if you dont need the actives
 the VM 44 classics
If you talk to a rep (mine's Ron V) at Full Compass you get a much better deal then the web pricing
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/362416.html
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/337331.html

my VM-44 links were about $1200 for the pair....

aroundd the holidays full compass usually runs a special 12 months 0% interest- with thier card- via GE capitol but you can spend a bit more with no interest... get more than you can afford now!

check out the team boards:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=114343.0

peace thru music

[Scooter123]

Ditto on buying used.  Buy from a guy with a lot of posts, and you'll know he took care of the mics--most guys here handle them like eggs. 

Personally, I would start with some used Church Mikes, some cards, and get a handle on taping protocol, figure out what you don't like about the sound, then save money and move up to a decent preamp and boutique mikes from there. 

Location and Luck play a bigger part than any equipment purchase in taping.  I've had great mikes which sound like shit under a balcony, and great tapes with crappy mikes in the sweet spot, and have had both great mikes and a sweet spot and the recording ruined by near by drunks. 

As one guy said, save your money for good tickets. 

[Belexes]

Location and Luck play a bigger part than any equipment purchase in taping.

Sage advice. I completely agree.

[SmokinJoe]

Taste in sound is like taste in ice cream.  I like vanilla, but you might like maple walnut, and I can't stand the stuff.  That doesn't mean you are wrong, just that you have different tastes. I like "detailed" sound and gravitate towards detailed gear.  Other people want "silky smooth".  Until you get an idea of what you actually like, I wouldn't spend large sums of money.

The other thing to keep in mind is that some mics and preamps go together like peanut butter and jelly, and some don't.   To me, it's the combo that makes the sound, not just the mic.  Once you pick your mics, make sure you choose a pre that sounds good with those mics.  AKG480's are good mics with some pres.  An M248 pre is great with some mics, but I don't like AKG480's with an M248 as a combo.

Ref... buying used... I currently own, and have owned, lots of different mics.  I've bought almost all of them from the Yard Sale, or from our "Team suppliers" like Church Audio, and I wouldn't do it any other way.  Buying used off Ebay can be sketchy, but buying from the yard sale is a completely different story.  If someone has a good history here and can supply samples "These exact mics made this recording on the archive", then it's pretty safe.  If you can't get samples or the guy seems sketchy, then perhaps it's best to be cautious.

Personally, I don't think the upgrade bug is a bad thing, at least not for some people.  I've been through a lot of different gear in the last few years, and that's how I've learned what works for my tastes.  It can be an expensive game of trial and error, but it doesn't always have to be.  You buy a set of C4's or Nak 300's for $200 and then want to upgrade... chances are you can sell those C4's for $200 (or maybe $175) a while later and you haven't taken a big loss.  That's not always the case with all gear, but with some gear it is.

[raymonda]

Excellent advice and options. I would agree with buying used and recording from a good seat. I would also add one more mic to your choice. If you are doing open taping and don't mind larger mics, then the LD multi pattern ADK A51TL are an absolute steel. You can usually buy a used pair for around $500. These are by far one of my favorite mics and performs better than other budget mics and as good as many of the big boys.

I consistantly use them as spit omni's for multitrack on location jobs. They are a main stay at the Homer Center for the Arts. If you attend a show there you will always see a spit omni pair of these up front at the stage lip. I have also used them on instruments and in various stereo configurations. They never disappoint.

Here are few shots of live recording sessions where they were used.

Along with the AKG460's these are mics you will keep forever.