Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Karl on April 11, 2004, 07:05:21 PM
-
There have been a few in depth threads about the AT 853's, and the consenus has been that you can get the best sound out of them when they are using phantom power. One thing that needs clarification--Sound Professionals offers two different options for phantom power--what EXACTLY is the difference? One option allows phantom OR battery power, the other only phantom power--what's the physical/electrical difference? (see link):
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-4&type=store (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-4&type=store)
In one of the previous threads, joemango asserted that the power adapters choked 48V down to about 10V--I have real doubts about that. I don't know how 10V would get you 13 additional dB of SPL capability.
-
There have been a few in depth threads about the AT 853's, and the consenus has been that you can get the best sound out of them when they are using phantom power. One thing that needs clarification--Sound Professionals offers two different options for phantom power--what EXACTLY is the difference? One option allows phantom OR battery power, the other only phantom power--what's the physical/electrical difference? (see link):
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-4&type=store (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-4&type=store)
In one of the previous threads, joemango asserted that the power adapters choked 48V down to about 10V--I have real doubts about that. I don't know how 10V would get you 13 additional dB of SPL capability.
see Fintstoneesq drawing attached:
>>In one of the previous threads, joemango asserted that the power adapters choked 48V down to about 10V--I have real doubts about that. I don't know how 10V would get you 13 additional dB of SPL capability.
i haven't verified those voltages mentioned above, but you should understand that phantom power (equal voltages across pins 2 and 3 respect to pin 1 ground) is not the same as "plug in" power.
marc
-
I could give a whole bunch of educated guesses as to the difference between plugin power and phantom power......but cannot say for sure. I CAN say for sure that 99% of all high end gear supplies 48 volts phantom power and not plug in power.
Do you have a pre with phantom power? If so I'd say get that phantom adapters...if not get the battery box.
-
if you can swing the cash and you have a pre that provides 48V phantom, go for it. There is most likely no difference between options 2 and 3 as long as you use phantom on option 3, it just gives you the option of battery or phantom....I believe the sound to be much better with phantom.
-
There have been a few in depth threads about the AT 853's, and the consenus has been that you can get the best sound out of them when they are using phantom power. One thing that needs clarification--Sound Professionals offers two different options for phantom power--what EXACTLY is the difference? One option allows phantom OR battery power, the other only phantom power--what's the physical/electrical difference? (see link):
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-4&type=store (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-4&type=store)
In one of the previous threads, joemango asserted that the power adapters choked 48V down to about 10V--I have real doubts about that. I don't know how 10V would get you 13 additional dB of SPL capability.
The difference is that the option with the power box, allows you to be a little more stealthy if you can't crotch the preamp. If you ever think you'll stealth a pretty secure place, it's a nice option.
--hoyt
-
there are lots of threads about this on this board, so I wont go into too much detail, but I can tell you from experience, if you are going to be taping loud rock/rap/metal shows, you will have distortion problems with the mic overloading with the 9V batt box option. By raising the SPLs the mics can manage with the use of a preamp, this risk is minimized.
-
I purchased the phantom power only option of the AT 831s. I'm happy with the results and I bet the 853s will be even better. Keep in mind that the set up from SP is a little differend from what you get from purchasing directly from an AT dealer. SP gives you phantom power modules by Samson, not AT. I think the AT modules have a bass roll-off switch which the Samson's lack. Also, one of my Samson modules was dead and I had to send it back. SP turned it around quickly.
-
So, I'm taking it that the only difference between the two options is how the cables are terminated. Right ??? Does any know for sure?
-
And the power adapters.
-Kevin
-
they have pictures of all this on the site
-
IS there anything in particular about these mics that allow this to mod to be done, or can I do this mod with any SP mics? I have a set of their Innovative Specialist mics... and making them run on phantom power is pretty appealing...
Thanks...
-
Kevin, it looks like both options come with power adapters.
-
Kevin, it looks like both options come with power adapters.
I think Kevin was refering to modified or non-modified. If you get option 2 you do not have the option to run it on a battery box. In other words, if you go to a show where you don't have your phantom powering preamp, your mics won't work. In essence when I modified the mics myself, I would get option 2 if I juts cut my wires and tossed the 1/8" end.
Option 3 allows you to choose (at a show) whether or not you want to run off of phantom powering, or off of a battery box. When I modified mine myself, this is achieved by taking that cut off 1/8" piece and adding male mini xlrs to the ends.
If you're going to stealth with these things, it's certainly worth it to go with option 3. Just in case you can't get in with that pre...
Kevin - your's went in the mail today!
--hoyt
-
Can't wait to try them out...going to Boise this weekend. Maybe then.....repot to follow.
-Kevin
-
Okay, thanks, I think I got it now. Nowhere was it very obvious that the phantom power adapters were modified also.
What I have right now is the standard AT853's from sound pro's, terminated in the 1/8" miniplug (they are the option with the gooseneck). Couple of questions--if I hack the ends off, right near where the miniplug is, can I make the necessary mods right there? Or is the wiring further up in the mics? And is it easy to mod the Samson adapters, to work with phantom and/or battery box power?
-
you can mod the mics anywhere on thier cables
all you do is add mini-xlr connections to the cables, which you can also add to the cut off cable that has the 1/8" miniplug on it. so then if you wanted to run phantom, just unplug the mini-xlrs and plug them into the power adapter/mic pre w/ 48v phantom
you wouldnt need the samson adapters if you chose to run the battery box, so you wouldnt ned to mod them
hope im of help, i dont own any of these mics currently and have never modded or owned modded ones, just info from what ive read
-
ok, you put mini-xlr connectors on the end of each mic. The mini-xlr will plug straight into the adapters providing phantom. Then make a dual mini-xlr > single 1/8" mini adapter cable. This will allow the mini-xlr ends to be converted into a single 1/8" output, just as you had before.
SP will do this for $100 but they might use different connectors, instead of the mini-xlrs.
Hoyt and leegeddy have done this mod themselves, maybe they can post pics or add a link. Either way, it's not that difficult and it would be something I would try if I ever considered going back to battery power (which I wouldn't)
-
FWIW, I bought the phantom power modules from SP about 5-6 months ago and they are indeed genuine AT phantom modules. I mod'ed my setup with mini-xlr's to use both phantom and the 1/8" plug. I must say that it works great! Here's a picture. Peace
-
FWIW, I bought the phantom power modules from SP about 5-6 months ago and they are indeed genuine AT phantom modules. I mod'ed my setup with mini-xlr's to use both phantom and the 1/8" plug. I must say that it works great! Here's a picture. Peace
dano;
just out of curiosity, have you ran your setup WITH phantom power yet? i hate to say that it looks impossible with the setup in that photo.
marc
-
I was about to ask how you got away with one mini XLR for two channels? But maybe he didn't get away with it...
-
Yes, I have used it and it works flawlessly (and sounds WAY better than the SP batt box). XLR has three connections, a "+" or hot, a "-" or drain and a ground. The ground is a shared common so what I did was use a 5 pin mini-xlr and wired it "+" to "+", "-" to "-" and shared the common ground on the 5th pin. It works.
Another side note, the mic2496 comes standard with a 5-pin mini-xlr input. So as it sits stock, it also shares the 5th pin common ground.
-
Yes, I have used it and it works flawlessly (and sounds WAY better than the SP batt box). XLR has three connections, a "+" or hot, a "-" or drain and a ground. The ground is a shared common so what I did was use a 5 pin mini-xlr and wired it "+" to "+", "-" to "-" and shared the common ground on the 5th pin. It works.
Another side note, the mic2496 comes standard with a 5-pin mini-xlr input. So as it sits stock, it also shares the 5th pin common ground.
ahh, a 5 pinner!! that would explain it. i assumed that you were using a 3pinner.
+t for the mod.
marc
-
Sweet. When I get some time in the next few weeks, I'm going to break out the soldering iron and get to work. I have been a little unhappy with the tonal quality of my mics, but hearing that phantom power helps out gives me hope. Thanks a bunch guys, and plus t's as soon as I get 50 posts!
-
those mini-connectors are sweet, saves some space, thanx for the pics and the feedback
+
-
Hoyt and leegeddy have done this mod themselves, maybe they can post pics or add a link. Either way, it's not that difficult and it would be something I would try if I ever considered going back to battery power (which I wouldn't)
Yup: http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15247;start=msg196993#msg196993
All in all it doesn't take long to do it yourself. The real pain is soldering with the tiny mini-xlrs terminals.
--hoyt
-
Hello,
I have a Samson Mixpad 4. I was wondering if I could use AT853s with the Mixpad Phantom option.
Thanks,
Mike
-
yep
-
Alright. Got my 933s done. Went with the dual mini xlrs and Samson adaptors. The hardest part was reading the little numbers by the pins on that connector. Thanks to leggedy, my last-minute fears were overcome and they seem to work. Now I just need to build the adaptor to still be able to use the BB - oh and some music to tape...
-
So if I am reading this right, I should be able to take a pair of 853's (that were not sp mod'd) build up a minixlr to stereo mini and I would be able to use batt box or phantom?
-
Got a lot of AT853's offa an auction (they used to be choir mics) that are coming with transformers. Hoping that I will be able to make a cable to go from the at853's to plug power... Does anyone have the pinouts from the original mics? Don't wanna let the smoke out of em ::)
-
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/images/gold/full/SP-CMC-4-Z.jpg
-
Thanks Schwill, but I think the stock AT853s have mini xlrs or? So I would like to leave those alone (then I could just plug em back into the transformers. The only example that I have seen was using a 5pin xlr instead of the stock ones...
Make sense?
-
the AT853a mics have mini-xlr (i think) that can be used for battery or phantom. The AT853Rx have regular XLR power modules "in-line"
-
And if it helps, in that picture, just imagine mini-xlrs instead of 1/8" minis. Either way it gets the job done
-
Gotcha! Well I have 6 at853's with transformers coming (4 black, 2 white, dunno what I am gonna do with white 853's with 25' cords but hey the price was right!) for $160 shipped! so hopefully between the 2 sets of black ones I can come up with a pair of mics that are close.
Woohoo taping on the cheap!!
-
so the transformers are in-line, attached to the mic cable?
did you get all 6 for $160?
-
Yeah got em all for $160, they are former choir mics. From what it looks like they have the connector on em (actually he said they cut off and need to be reconnected on the black ones) so I am hoping that all of em come with the at xformers... Emailed the guy and they all have card elements too...
-
holy shit, I should have just gotten my recently purchased pair from you :-p
good luck with that. If any of the transformers are AT8533 (not AT8533x) I'd be interested in buying them, if you are selling.
-
What are the differences between the at8533 and the at8533x?
-
One is strictly phantom powered, and the other has the ability to go 1.5v button cell? I think...
-
holy shit, I should have just gotten my recently purchased pair from you :-p
good luck with that. If any of the transformers are AT8533 (not AT8533x) I'd be interested in buying them, if you are selling.
Will let ya know. I might have a line on a few more that went before this batch. Guy got a few of em and only wants 2, and said he might be willing to sell me the rest.
Heck, with all of those, I could pick up a mixer and mic the band myself! ;D
-
What are the differences between the at8533 and the at8533x?
one (3x) is soldered onto the mic cable and the other (3) has a mini-xlr connection, i think
-
AT853rx comes with
AT8533x
Power 9-52 Volts Phantom Power
Switches 2-position: Low-Frequency Roll-Off / Flat
Input Connection Screw Terminals
Output Connection 3-pin XLR-male
Dimensions 3.58 x 0.83" (91 x 21mm) (Length x Diameter)
Weight 2.1 oz (60 grams)
AT8533a comes with
AT8531 power module
Same as above, but allows battery operation lowers dynamic range.
AT8533pmx
Comes with WALL PLATE MOUNTABLE transformer (I think that I am getting a couple of these with the white ones) The mic has bare cable and goes into the xformer with screw terminals.
Even if I just end up with 6 853 and no inline xformers, it still is a smoking deal. As of right now my rig consists of a set of Panasonic mic elements linkiwitz mod'd with a Sound Pro Pre/battery box. So I will more than likely be running 9v for a while anyway.
Seeing as all these would need to be SP mod'd would be the addition of a stereo miniplug, I still think this is a pretty good deal.
-
can someone post the link to the schematic again?
Topic was moved so the link doesn't work anymore.
Thanks.
Reply #24 on: April 14, 2004, 08:27:49 PM »
Quote from: Schwillster on April 13, 2004, 03:25:06 AM
Hoyt and leegeddy have done this mod themselves, maybe they can post pics or add a link. Either way, it's not that difficult and it would be something I would try if I ever considered going back to battery power (which I wouldn't)
Yup: http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15247;start=msg196993#msg196993
All in all it doesn't take long to do it yourself. The real pain is soldering with the tiny mini-xlrs terminals.
--hoyt
-
can someone post the link to the schematic again?
Topic was moved so the link doesn't work anymore.
Thanks.
All you have to do is remove the 'yabbse' from the link.
http://www.taperssection.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15247;start=msg196993#msg196993
-
can someone post the link to the schematic again?
Topic was moved so the link doesn't work anymore.
Thanks.
All you have to do is remove the 'yabbse' from the link.
http://www.taperssection.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15247;start=msg196993#msg196993
We (Bri?) should put a php script in that yabbse directory that will redirect any of these links to the non-/yabbse/ version. wouldn't be too hard to code. I'd offer a script but I haven't done much php. I could do it in asp.net in about five minutes.
-
Can I mod my cmc-4 with xlr plugs to work with a mixer supplying 48v phantom per mic? For running something like a 4 mic or 5 mic mix.
-
The phantom power adapters are XLR.
You can't just put XLRs on them and run them phantom, you have to use the P48 adapters.
-
Is that the AT8333 part that is the phantom adapter or is there some other place I can buy this from. I would like to permanently have these mics terminate with the XLR plugs...so what goes between the mic and those?
-
You'll want the AT8533x (2 of them). This is exactly what I used for the end of my AT933/853's. You can get them from http://www.soundprofessionals.com for about $78 each. I recommend calling them though and talking to Chris... when I got mine last month they had a surplus of them and he sold them to me for $50 each.