Topic: Sony PCM-M10 or the Olympus LS-11

[singing banker]

Hi everybody! I hope somebody is still reading this post...
I'm one of those still not decided between the M10 and the LS-11... I know that most people agree on the recording quality of the Sony PCM-D50. I cannot afford it, so to get something close to it (as far as sound is concerned), I decided to use the cello recording on the Wingfield website to compare the M10 and the LS-11 to the D50. To my ears, the sound of the LS-11 seems much closer to that of the D50 than the sound of the M10 does. The M10 seems to lack brightness in the mid-range. Do you think this might be due to the recording conditions? Has somebody also experienced that in real situations? I kind of like the lack of brightness of the M10, but I don't want something flattering to the ear, but rather sth as close to reality as possible: I'm an aspiring opera singer (a mezzo) and I really want sth as close to reality as possible; I don't want sth that is going to make me sound better than I really do....
It's also interesting to note that in my country the LS-11 is 100 euros CHEAPER than the M10... which seems the exact opposite to what is in the US.
All that taken into consideration, what would you recommend?

Thanks a lot!

[Cheesecadet]

M10 for sure...

[jbell]

The sony pcm m10 is more popular among the taping commuinty!  Not too many LS11 users, but what would you be using it for?  That might help.  Will you have external mics and a pre?  I would stick with the sony m10 or maybe look at an edirol R09HR.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Sony M10. Tried and true. I've used mine for speeches with the internal mics as well as shows (both mic in and line in from a Tinybox). Never had a single issue.

I chose the Sony since so many tapers are using it and I've never really heard a complaint.

[dallman]

I have an LS -10 and it is a great and very tiny deck.  I have made some excellent recordings with it. I do not use it too much, but I do like the build and quality. My understanding is that the LS 11 has great internal storgae as well as an improved low end response. If it is 100 dollars less, unless the Sony has a specific feature you want, I think the LS 11 is a great deal.

(If I can recall correctly though, Chris Church hates this deck!)

[singing banker]

Thank you everybody for your answers.

jmbell: I'd be using the recorder to record my singing practice (opera), using the internal mics most of the time. I might invest in some external mics at some point, but it's not budgeted yet...

I knew most people on this post preferred the M10 (I read everything...), but I still doubted because of that cello recording: has anybody tried to listen to the cello recording on the Wingfield website to see what I was talking about? Here is the link: http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-sound-samples.html

Can somebody explain to me why the M10 sounds so weak in the middle range and why, when listening to the M10, PCM-D50 and LS-11, the LS-11 seems closer to the D50 than the M10 does, please?

Has somebody some samples of something recorded both (and at the same time) on the M10 and on the LS11, please?

THANK YOU ALL!   

(dallman: whom do you call Chris Church?)

[rastasean]

chris church sells microphones and pre-amps on this site:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136212.0

it is unlikely that people have BOTH the ls11 and the m10 so a true tapers tested side-by-side comparison probably hasn't taken place.

be happy with whichever deck you get.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

The built in mics in most recorders are incredibly cheap.  For most of us here, the internal mics are more of an afterthought, and not a primary (or even secondary) solution.  That's part of the reason why the mfgs don't budget a lot of the product cost on internal mics.  However, you can still make good recordings with them.

It is not a good idea to consider recordings made in different (perhaps unknown) circumstances as being indicative of the performance of recorders..    I'm guessing the ls-11 has cardioid pattern mics.  The m10 has omnis.  Cards will tend to maintain their performance at distance, while omnis will start to sound distant when not up close.

The built in gain on the m10 is regarded as very quiet.  I'm not sure about the ls-11.

Will you need to conceal this recorder?  If so, you may find it easier to use external mics.

[illconditioned]

The built in mics in most recorders are incredibly cheap.  For most of us here, the internal mics are more of an afterthought, and not a primary (or even secondary) solution.  That's part of the reason why the mfgs don't budget a lot of the product cost on internal mics.  However, you can still make good recordings with them.

It is not a good idea to consider recordings made in different (perhaps unknown) circumstances as being indicative of the performance of recorders..    I'm guessing the ls-11 has cardioid pattern mics.  The m10 has omnis.  Cards will tend to maintain their performance at distance, while omnis will start to sound distant when not up close.

The built in gain on the m10 is regarded as very quiet.  I'm not sure about the ls-11.

Will you need to conceal this recorder?  If so, you may find it easier to use external mics.

I haven't used the Olympus, but the Sony M10 mics are alright.  They are very quiet.  The sound is not great for music, but they make excellent ambient/informal recordings, with very low noise.


That said, recording *any* music, you'd better use external mics.  IMO, some of the best mics for music are Sennheiser MKE2 (omni) or MKE40 (cardioid).  These are both available as "Sennheiser driven" mics from microphonemadness.com.  By the way, don't buy their own "house brand", just the Senns.  You won't be disappointed...


  Richard

[illconditioned]

The built in mics in most recorders are incredibly cheap.  For most of us here, the internal mics are more of an afterthought, and not a primary (or even secondary) solution.  That's part of the reason why the mfgs don't budget a lot of the product cost on internal mics.  However, you can still make good recordings with them.

It is not a good idea to consider recordings made in different (perhaps unknown) circumstances as being indicative of the performance of recorders..    I'm guessing the ls-11 has cardioid pattern mics.  The m10 has omnis.  Cards will tend to maintain their performance at distance, while omnis will start to sound distant when not up close.

The built in gain on the m10 is regarded as very quiet.  I'm not sure about the ls-11.

Will you need to conceal this recorder?  If so, you may find it easier to use external mics.

I haven't used the Olympus, but the Sony M10 mics are alright.  They are very quiet.  The sound is not great for music, but they make excellent ambient/informal recordings, with very low noise.


That said, recording *any* music, you'd better use external mics.  IMO, some of the best mics for music are Sennheiser MKE2 (omni) or MKE40 (cardioid).  These are both available as "Sennheiser driven" mics from microphonemadness.com.  By the way, don't buy their own "house brand", just the Senns.  You won't be disappointed.  Both of those sets are ca. $250 a pair.  If you want a good sounding, cheaper mic, you can get some nice ones from Church Audio for around $100 a pair.  But from the sounds of it, if you are a musician, you want something very good.


  Richard

[singing banker]

Thank you all for your answers. I guess I'll go for the M10... But I really wonder why in Europe it's 100 euros more expensive than the LS-11, whereas it is the exact opposite in the US 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Thank you all for your answers. I guess I'll go for the M10... But I really wonder why in Europe it's 100 euros more expensive than the LS-11, whereas it is the exact opposite in the US 

Ah... I see.   I'd missed that, and it had me wondering why you wanted the more expensive recorder.  Our economy is terrible, but at least we get a break on prices

[aaronji]

Thank you all for your answers. I guess I'll go for the M10... But I really wonder why in Europe it's 100 euros more expensive than the LS-11, whereas it is the exact opposite in the US 

Have you tried doing some online comparison shopping?  Thomann (in Germany) sells the M10 (with windscreen) for 50 euros more than the LS-11.  Feedback, in the Netherlands, has the M10 for 10 euros cheaper than the LS-11.  You should definitely be able to find an M10 that's not 100 euros more if you look around a bit...

Another option worth considering is having a US-based friend buy one for you as a birthday gift and mail it to you...

[singing banker]

Thank you all for your answers. I guess I'll go for the M10... But I really wonder why in Europe it's 100 euros more expensive than the LS-11, whereas it is the exact opposite in the US 

Have you tried doing some online comparison shopping?  Thomann (in Germany) sells the M10 (with windscreen) for 50 euros more than the LS-11.  Feedback, in the Netherlands, has the M10 for 10 euros cheaper than the LS-11.  You should definitely be able to find an M10 that's not 100 euros more if you look around a bit...

Another option worth considering is having a US-based friend buy one for you as a birthday gift and mail it to you...

I used to live in the US and I still have my credit cards and a bank account, so buying it in the US would not really be a pb. But I could have pbs with customs, the electric adapter is always a pain in the neck and if I had a pb with the deck, I might have pbs having it fixed here....

The built in mics in most recorders are incredibly cheap.  For most of us here, the internal mics are more of an afterthought, and not a primary (or even secondary) solution.  That's part of the reason why the mfgs don't budget a lot of the product cost on internal mics.  However, you can still make good recordings with them.

It is not a good idea to consider recordings made in different (perhaps unknown) circumstances as being indicative of the performance of recorders..    I'm guessing the ls-11 has cardioid pattern mics.  The m10 has omnis.  Cards will tend to maintain their performance at distance, while omnis will start to sound distant when not up close.

The built in gain on the m10 is regarded as very quiet.  I'm not sure about the ls-11.

Will you need to conceal this recorder?  If so, you may find it easier to use external mics.

Wingfield gives us the conditions of her recordings.... She records each piece once, with all the recorders on and using only the internal mics... I cannot give you all the details she gives on her experiences, but you can go on her website.

thanks a lot

[aaronji]

I used to live in the US and I still have my credit cards and a bank account, so buying it in the US would not really be a pb. But I could have pbs with customs, the electric adapter is always a pain in the neck and if I had a pb with the deck, I might have pbs having it fixed here....

The customs issue is why I suggested finding a friend to buy it for you as a gift; at least in my experience, gifts are not taxed on import...Direct, non-gift, shipments can get pretty heavily hit, though.  I ended up paying almost double for a Sound Pros battery box to get shipped to Europe once shipping, import duties and value-added tax were factored in.  Most expensive battery box ever!

The plug isn't a problem, really.  You need a plug adapter but not a full-fledged converter.  The repair issue is tough.  Basically, you would have to forgo the warranty unless you could ship it back to someone in the US to re-ship it to Sony...