Topic: Nagra BB+

[johnw]

A $2000 cap puts DPA 4011 or 40xx anything, Schoeps CMC anything, Sennheiser MKH 80xx out of reach.

If you purchased a set of Schoeps mk4 caps used for $8-900 and bought a pair of CMRs for $1100 and were handy at building yourself a battery box you could do that. But that is going to put you right up to and possibly over 2k by the time you figure parts and shipping. A set of PFAs would put you over as well. An Nbox is more expensive than the CMRs and about in line with CMC6 bodies. A used set of matched caps that are still truly matched is unlikely in that price range. Bottom line, I think Schoeps are excluded here.

My suggestion would be a pair of Neumann 140s or 183s or 184s. You could easily get either for under $2000 used. You could even buy a pair of Neumann SKM 183/184 new for under $2000. If you are intent on a matched pair, then I would buy the SKM 183 (omni) or 184 (card ) new since over time even a previously matched pair may not fall into matched specs.

I have owned and used AKG 391s and 393s, AKG 461s and 463s (modified by Jim Williams), Neumann km140s and now have a pair of Schoeps mk41s with an Nbox.

For nature or chamber recording I would think anything past a card would be too directional and I would lean towards an omni. Out of the combination I've owned, I would go with the Neumann or modified AKG 461s. Since you stated you wanted a matched pair and AKG doesn't offer matching, that leaves only the Neumanns. While I haven't used the 184s the company claims they sound identical to the 140s. I also haven't used or heard an omni cap from Neumann so I can't reccomend it.

EDIT: while Microtech Gefell 200s would be over $2k a pair of m300 would be under that, but not sure if they offer matching at a price under $2000. Also don't know anything about MBHO or Josephson c42 although they are generally well regarded.

[page]

A $2000 cap puts DPA 4011 or 40xx anything, Schoeps CMC anything, Sennheiser MKH 80xx out of reach.

If you purchased a set of Schoeps mk4 caps used for $8-900 and bought a pair of CMRs for $1100 and were handy at building yourself a battery box you could do that. But that is going to put you right up to and possibly over 2k by the time you figure parts and shipping.

I underestimated the CMR box cost. My bad.

EDIT: while Microtech Gefell 200s would be over $2k a pair of m300 would be under that, but not sure if they offer matching at a price under $2000. Also don't know anything about MBHO or Josephson c42 although they are generally well regarded.

yeah, I found one place that would set a ("new") set of MG200s w/ card caps for just over $2k (like $2050 for the pair) but it was only a limited number and the regular price was a chunk more. 

[Karma]

HI All,
I'm afraid I used the term"matched" wrong. I meant a pair of the same model. You mean a pair that is matched to specification, I think. I'm sure that is better and would result in better imaging. However, I can see why that is more expensive and maybe not available. Sorry about that.

But my misuse of the term just shows you that I am a newbe to this game. I would very much appreciate it if you don't assume anything. For example, you said CMR (whats a CMR?) without any description. Am I supposed to know what you are talking about? Same thing with PFA (whats a CFA and CMC6?). I hope you are not just trying to impress me with your knowledge. Don't worry, I'm impressed.

Whats an Nbox? Whats a CMR box? Whats a MG200?

Are you getting the idea now? I hope so because I'm spending too much time being confused.

Sparky

[jbou]

The Nbox and the CMR setup are for Schoeps MK capsules and let you run the caps without the bodies. I'll let other people give you more specifics. But heres a link to another thread with some pics of these setups so you can get the idea.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136697.0

[johnw]

I'm not trying to impress anyone. I am using specific part numbers for the companies I listed. The only exception is PFA since I did not specify the company Naint audio.  A link to the schoeps CMR and PFA are below.

http://www.naiant.com/pfaspecification.html
http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/cmr

There is no company website for Nbox, but it is a preamplifier custom built by a member here named Nick. You can contact him in the link below.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5476

Schoeps CMC6
http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/categories/mic_amps

Please don't take this the wrong way but all of these questions are easily answered by using the search box in the top left corner of the screen or even google. In fact the second return after the search "nbox" would answer your question. As for MG200 - Microtech Gefell 200 appears right above in the quoted text.

Good luck with your search for equipment, it can be confusing and maybe frustrating, but you will get plenty of friendly advice here.

[John Willett]

I don't know US prices, unfortunately.

I do have an MKH 8040 stereoset (cardioids) and also an MKH 8020 stereoset (omnis) which I use for lots of classical stuff indoors and out.  As has been said, these are RF condensers and safe in damp and condensation.  They are also symmetrical capsule mics with very low double-tone distortion.

The Neumann KM 183 and 184 sets are more affordable.

Schoeps are good, but at the top of the price range.

MBHO mics. are exceptionally good for the price - pretty close to Schoeps in quality but they have simpler distribution and are much cheaper (they make the capsules for Soundfield, Brauner and others).

[OFOTD]

But my misuse of the term just shows you that I am a newbe to this game. I would very much appreciate it if you don't assume anything. For example, you said CMR (whats a CMR?) without any description. Am I supposed to know what you are talking about? Same thing with PFA (whats a CFA and CMC6?). I hope you are not just trying to impress me with your knowledge. Don't worry, I'm impressed.

Not sure what you mean by 'don't assume anything' but I take it you don't want us to assume that you're new and are looking to spend money on things you know nothing about yet?

Are you getting the idea now? I hope so because I'm spending too much time being confused.

We're trying to get the idea here but when you disagree with us on things that we all know to be true then patience runs thin.    So as mentioned before do you want us to help you or do you just want us to agree with you?  Because those as of now seem to be two totally different things.

As for what an Nbox is or CMR's or MG200 's those items are basic Taping 101 topics that you should read about before folks continue to give you info on things that you appear to not know anything about.   Go read the Getting Started threads and do some basic searching on this site.   I have no doubt that once you do some of your own investigating instead of asking people to do your work for you that your thought process on your Nagra > C1000's will completely change.   

[kirk97132]

I agree.  The search function is your friend.  And fwiw before I spent a dime on new 4 track recorder I read through 75 plus pages of posts here, talked to people and did my own research after that.  All of which took WAY more than the 3 days you've been on this site.  I'd suggest you spend the next month reading, absorbing and researching THEN ask some questions but don't look for validation, look for information.   

[Karma]

But my misuse of the term just shows you that I am a newbe to this game. I would very much appreciate it if you don't assume anything. For example, you said CMR (whats a CMR?) without any description. Am I supposed to know what you are talking about? Same thing with PFA (whats a CFA and CMC6?). I hope you are not just trying to impress me with your knowledge. Don't worry, I'm impressed.

Not sure what you mean by 'don't assume anything' but I take it you don't want us to assume that you're new and are looking to spend money on things you know nothing about yet?

Are you getting the idea now? I hope so because I'm spending too much time being confused.

We're trying to get the idea here but when you disagree with us on things that we all know to be true then patience runs thin.    So as mentioned before do you want us to help you or do you just want us to agree with you?  Because those as of now seem to be two totally different things.

As for what an Nbox is or CMR's or MG200 's those items are basic Taping 101 topics that you should read about before folks continue to give you info on things that you appear to not know anything about.   Go read the Getting Started threads and do some basic searching on this site.   I have no doubt that once you do some of your own investigating instead of asking people to do your work for you that your thought process on your Nagra > C1000's will completely change.

HI,
I agree about the research. That's going to be done. But, here we are. You are teaching and I am learning. If you want to teach well, you must accept that I am  beginner. I told you that at the beginning. If you do not want to waste your words ( I hope you won't) then accept this situation as it is. Or, don't post. I'm doing the best I can. I don't need your sh*t.

And I mean don't assume I can interpret words and terms that I am encountering for the first time. You know what I mean but you choose to twist the meaning. Not appreciated.

Sparky

[Karma]

HI All,
And the advantage of using an Nbox is?

Sparky

[Brian Skalinder]

And the advantage of using an Nbox is?

Damnit, I just lost several paragraphs somehow.  Out of frustration, my response now will be more brief, and I won't re-type the answer your above question directly...yet.

Before discussing the relative advantage and disadvantages of specific gear, I think it would be helpful to re-focus on the following topics in the following order:

• recording goals (you've already stated nature, trains, music), and we assume portable gear running on batteries;  but also...
  
  • is there any need to have an especially small recording footprint?  (e.g. very small mics that have a minimal visual impact on audience & musician sight-lines)
  • how portable should the gear be (hip-bag, small bag / table-top, rolling cart)?
• budget amount
  
  • what is the total budget for everything
• budget allocation
  
  • are you open to an alternative budget allocation, i.e. how much is spent on recorder v. preamp v. mics, etc., or are you dead-set on the Nagra recorder?
• specific gear recommendations
  
  • no matter the answers to #1-3, you'll have lots of options, but we can only provide appropriate recommendations if we have definitive answers to 1-3

We've started getting into #4, but without a common understanding of #1-3, and as a result the recommendations might not be appropriate.  For example, if you're absolutely, positively dead-set on getting the Nagra recorder, and have extremely limited funds for mics, then most of the recent gear-specific recommendations are useless as they're way over budget (I think; I'm not entirely sure of the budget).  But if you're open to re-visiting the budget allocation, then some (though likely not all) of the recent recommendations may be appropriate.

Let's get through #1-3 and then I think you'll find far more value in the (hopefully more) appropriate and useful gear recommendations.

[sk-1]

Hi Sparky,

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that TS doesn't need your sh*t either, and that if you can't accept considered and detailed advice with any degree of humility or gratitude then this is probably all a pointless exercise.

BTW did anyone else see all this coming as soon as audiophile status was mentioned? Nobody mention ABX!

Ben

[newplanet7]

HI All,
And the advantage of using an Nbox is?

Sparky

It takes the bodies out of the equation but adds another  small box.
This seems to not apply to you since you will probably be running mic~> nagra correct??

I've run or owned AKG c1000's which was discussed already, AKG se300 bodies with the ck91 cards and ck93 hypers,
 AKG c460b~> ck1 cards, ck61 cards, ck3 hypers, ck63 hypers, ck62 omnis.
Schoeps mk21, mk22, mk41, mk4, mk2~> kc5 cables~> cmc6 bodies.
For what you are primarily doing the hypers/supercards (MK41, ck63, ck3) would not be in the bag of tricks.
I love the ck1 cards for the detail and clarity which is why I have stuck with them
Even though  the schoeps would be out of said budget the mk21's and mk2's and or AKG ck62 and ck1's with the 460's would be great.
I really love the omnis for both companies. I used them for music, on stage and a little bit back from the stage.
Every time I taped with them I was pleased from the great detail and scary accurate recreation of the soundstage.

[F.O.Bean]

1.  DPA/B&K (4011, 4021, 4022, 4023)
2.  Nevaton MC49
3.  Milab VM44 (Link or Classic)
4.  Schoeps CMC64 (cardioids)
5.  beyerdynamic CK930 (or MC930)
6.  Sennheiser 8040

EVERYONE ALWAYS forgets about MBHO's. And Neumann's as well MBHO has more capsule options than every company except Schoeps. And the folks who build MBHO's used to work w/ Dr. Schoeps, and I think they are very similar, but at a HUGE price difference. I would pay DOUBLE for my MBHO's, seriously. But I got a GREAT deal on them.

[F.O.Bean]

MBHO mics. are exceptionally good for the price - pretty close to Schoeps in quality but they have simpler distribution and are much cheaper (they make the capsules for Soundfield, Brauner and others).

I am SOOO frickin' glad that someone else regards MBHO's the same way that I do