Topic: Setting up a new DR 680- the things to know

[MULETAPER]

So being A NOOB with a DR-680

any tips,tricks,things to know about setting up the machine? I think others down the line will benefit from this thread too.

any suggestions?

Bought a sandisk ultra 32 gig card,

I AM reading the owners manual as I always do,but somethings in this hobby is outside the manual! (we all have learned this!)

I will be using it tomorrow for the first time running my 930's and a sbd patch.

which brings my question, since I dont need 48v power from the board to the 680,should I use channel 3+4 on LINE setting for sbd?

any advise anyone might have will be helpful. Thanks ahead of time...

Heres a PDF link for those who might not have a manual:
http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/43/E_DR-680_OM_vA.pdf

[hi and lo]

Here's a few in the 2 minutes I have to think about this:

- Update to firmware v1.2 (if it's not already). This will add the ability to gang channels together for easy level setting along with a few other things.
- There are two lock switches on the unit. The physical lock switch on the top of the unit doesn't do anything more than lock the power button. The other lock (the button to the right of channel 6 on the front panel) is controlled through one of the menus and can be set to lock all front panel buttons, top buttons, or both. I set it to both to prevent accidentally stopping a recording.
- None of the top physical switches (Mic/Line, Hi/Low Gain, Phantom Power) can be locked and it is possible to accidentally move them. Plan accordingly
- If you want to arm or disarm certain tracks (best not to record all 8 channels if not in use), it's most easily done when in pause/rec mode. Just click the channel buttons on the front panel, however you cannot arm/disarm them once in Rec mode.

The menu settings are a bit funky and take some getting used to. Spend 5 minutes before every show to go through them before recording. Changing them in a hurry can be tricky.

[kirk97132]

I'm assuming your recording in 24bit...which means, record in 24 bit   There is a line on your display it is a perfect target to aim for when setting levels.  Leaves plenty of headroom and hs plenty of level.  any boosting can be done in post but this will avoid any overs, well for the most part.  MAKE SURE TO HIT STOP WHEN DONE!  NEVER UNPLUG UNIT OR LOSE POWER WHEN RECORDING!  Deck does not do automatic saves.  Stop will make deck do a save.   You can use any combination of channels you want on 1 thru 6.  7 & 8 need a pre with spdif or AES output.  FORMAT card before each use. 

[MULETAPER]

I didnt see where I could turn the low-cut off,only change it 40-80-120 any tips?

any other tips on "settings"

[hi and lo]

I didnt see where I could turn the low-cut off,only change it 40-80-120 any tips?

any other tips on "settings"

Front panel menu.

[Chuck]

If you use NiMH batteries in the bottom tray there is a setting in the menu to select between NiMH or alkaline batteries.
I'd also suggest getting familiar with the menu and where things are in that menu before using it in the field. It gets a little tricky if one of your sources is digital. You have the option of assigning it to tracks 5-6 or 7-8. ...and if I remember right, those settings are not under the same menu tab together.

[MULETAPER]

Machines all hooked up. went thru the settings.

my only question now, is how do you adjust your recording levels(on the fly)? or do I have to refer back to gain settings in the menu?

[MULETAPER]

im going to be running 1+2 with MC930's

I will be running sbd in to Line on 3+4

and have it set up to record mix.  sounds right...

[hi and lo]

Machines all hooked up. went thru the settings.

my only question now, is how do you adjust your recording levels(on the fly)? or do I have to refer back to gain settings in the menu?

Front panel menu again.. this time it's the "rec trim" button.

[MULETAPER]

24 hr crash courses kinda suck, so thanks for your input, its appreciated. im gonna nail it down one way or another!

btw thanks, that was easy...


>>>>Last gear purchase: <censored> and <censored>
 love that... thats why I bought new.

[Chuck]

It's not difficult to use, once you get all the menu stuff down.

[Gutbucket]

and have it set up to record mix.

Control the resulting mix with the pan and level buttons on the front panel.

Note: the unit always defalts to showing the stereo mix level on the far right side of the meter.  If you ever want to record and monitor a digital input to instead of the internal mixdown to the stereo channel, you need to change from MIX MON to DIN MON in the quick menu each time you power up. That's one setting it will not retain, and can be a head scratcher the first few times using the SPDIF input.

[edit- if you are playing back from the machine, the multi-channel/stereo button (I think that's what it's labled) on the top pannel will switch back and forth seemlessly between playback of the stereo channel and the individual channels (mixed or direct output)]

[fsulloway]

24 hr crash courses kinda suck, so thanks for your input, its appreciated. im gonna nail it down one way or another!

Gut Bucket gave me a 2-3 hour crash course. I had the manual out too as I was setting up.  So far I've used the deck about 5 times with no issues. I've been running digi out of the 722 and sbd into the dr680.

[MULETAPER]

im aiming for 60% aud and 40% board would I be better running SBD>UA5>SPDIF instead? or use channels 3+4

panning will give me that ratio? I know channel level will.

and im a little confused the way the tracks are labeled once recorded but thats a learning curve

[ShawnF]

im going to be running 1+2 with MC930's

I will be running sbd in to Line on 3+4

and have it set up to record mix.  sounds right...

Sounds like you're in good shape.  Just a thought, though--if your mics are back near the soundboard, is there going to be a large time lag between the sbd patch and the mics that would render recording the mix useless?  I mean, you can still monitor the mix even if you don't record it (no SPDIF in for this gig, it sounds like), and if you know in advance it's not going to be usable, why record it?  Of course, if you are close enough to the stage so the time lag isn't a problem, or even think it might be usable, go for it.  I find I almost always get better mixes in post, though--just hard to dial it in precisely during the performance when you're in the same room. 

Panning just controls left/right placement in the stereo image.  If you're concerned about sbd/mic ratio in the mix channel recording, it's the "MIX LEVEL" button on the front that you want.

Good Luck

[ShawnF]

im aiming for 60% aud and 40% board would I be better running SBD>UA5>SPDIF instead? or use channels 3+4

panning will give me that ratio? I know channel level will.

and im a little confused the way the tracks are labeled once recorded but thats a learning curve

If you use SPDIF, you can't monitor that signal and the mic signal at the same time. I don't think that it will even record as part of the mix channel, so if you go that route, definitely plan on mixing in post.

[Gutbucket]

I'd just use 3&4 (or whatever analog input pair you like) and skip the UA5 >digital input.  Especially the first few times until you are comfortable with the recorder. Use the UA5 >SPDIF input when you need more than just the 6 analog input channels.

The pan control pans each mono-track in the stereo mix, you'll probably want to hard pan the mics Left and Right.. same for a stereo board feed.  If the board feed is bad on one channel or unbalanced, you could pan the good channel to center or adjust balance.

The level contol adjusts the mix ratio (it's independant of rec trim) by setting the output level of each channel to the stereo mix buss.

[chinariderstl]

Marking thread.

[MULETAPER]

its a very small room maybe 200+ small stage and a SMALL SBD. I dont think this will be an issue. recordings Ill sync,so that wont be an issue. I do understand your delay theory if your wayyyy back in a room and recording a sbd as well. Most of the SBD stuff ive done in the past is usually in small venues.

Gutbucket I will heed to your advise,it sounds dead on what my thoughts were at first. Ill play around during soundcheck to make sure it right.

[Gutbucket]

If you use SPDIF, you can't monitor that signal and the mic signal at the same time.

Yes you can do this.  See the Note in my earlier post above.

I don't think that it will even record as part of the mix channel, so if you go that route, definitely plan on mixing in post.

Not sure about this one..
You can record the digital input to either the stereo channel or to 5/6.
I always have recorded the digital input to the stereo channel.  In that case you cannot also record an internal stereo mixdown.
It might be possible to record a digital input to 5/6 and do an internal stereo mixdown to the stereo channel. But I've never tried it.

[MULETAPER]

>>>>Marking thread

that why I start this,its extremely helpful.

sometimes whats in the manual is not how it works in the field. and running any new unit gives ya the gitters... its nature.

but for useful info, and a quick resource. Not just for me,but those who go thru all this down the line.

I can see a surge of dr680 users coming. best bang for the buck IMHO!! the pre's sound as good as my Oade-ACM 661,maybe cleaner.

if anyone else has issues they have encountered,please write about them here.Thats why I started this yes, to help me set it up. but for future reference for those who get new units.. this place is a well full of knowledge. we might as well share it.

sully, greenfeild tomorrow?

[ShawnF]

If you use SPDIF, you can't monitor that signal and the mic signal at the same time.

Yes you can do this.  See the Note in my earlier post above.

I don't think that it will even record as part of the mix channel, so if you go that route, definitely plan on mixing in post.

Not sure about this one..
You can record the digital input to either the stereo channel or to 5/6.
I always have recorded the digital input to the stereo channel.  In that case you cannot also record an internal stereo mixdown.
It might be possible to record a digital input to 5/6 and do an internal stereo mixdown to the stereo channel. But I've never tried it.

I think we're actually in agreement about the monitoring--you can't monitor both the SPDIF and analog signals at the same time (that is, simultaneously).  You have to switch between MIX MON and DIN MON, as you mentioned.

You can indeed record a SPDIF signal to 5/6 and a stereo mixdown, but my point was that the SPDIF signal won't be part of the mixdown--it's just the analog channels.  At least, I'm pretty certain that's the case.

[Gutbucket]

I think we're actually in agreement about the monitoring--you can't monitor both the SPDIF and analog signals at the same time (that is, simultaneously).  You have to switch between MIX MON and DIN MON, as you mentioned.

If you mean you cannot monitor the SPDIF input and the stereo mix channel levels at the same time, your are correct.  However you can monitor the 6 individual analog inputs and the SPDIF input at the same time when set to DIN MON.

You can indeed record a SPDIF signal to 5/6 and a stereo mixdown, but my point was that the SPDIF signal won't be part of the mixdown--it's just the analog channels.  At least, I'm pretty certain that's the case.

Never tried that so I don't know.  But if you are able to record record SPDIF to 5/6 along with a simultaneous analog stereo mixdown of the other 4 channels, I'd be suprised that you can't see levels for all those things at the same time.  Does it not show SPDIF input levels sent to 5/6 on the 5/6 meters?  If not, and SPDIF input levels are always displayed on the stereo meter regardless of which channels SPDIF is selected to record to, then I understand why both could not be monitored simultaneously.  However even if that is indeed the case, you should be able to switch between showing SPDIF 5/6 levels and showing the stereomix levels by going to the quick menu and switching from DIN MON to MIX MON while recording, you just wouldn't see both at the same time.

I'll have to play around with that sometime.

I don't mean to beat this into the ground, just trying to clarify.  Muletaper, don't let us confuse you with these arcane details which are unimportant to getting started with this recorder!

[achalsey]

Okay mine just showed up and did not come with a manual.

"mix trim," "mix pan," and "rec trim."  Do I want to pan the left full left, and right full right?  I don't think I want to but will leave that up for advise.  Mix level, what is that?  1/2 arrived at 75, 3/4 at 0.  Thats all I'm using for now so whats the deal?  Rec trim I put everything to 0.

[DATPAT]

If your doing a board feed and running mic's from that location you just need to adjust the delay time on your audience. It's worth doing and getting the hang of it cause if you do many matrix's you'll have to know how to do it. What i do is load all 4 channels in your daw. I have used wavelab or soundforge. I look for a section where there isn't any music just a sharp transient such as a drum or a single note that was played I'll then zoom in and see exactly how many ms difference between the 2 sources and then i'll go to the beginning of the recording and cut out that exact amount of time from the audience. As long as the two recording are made from the same recorder(clock) (which you are) then you only need to do it that one time at the beginning. If your using recordings from different decks it gets trickly because you'll generally have to do the same thing at the beginning of every song or every other song depending on how much drift there is. The rules of thumb are this:The casaul listener can't notice anything less than 20 ms of delay, and you generally get about .9ms of delay per foot. So for example, if your in a small club and the board is 40 ft back from the stage your audience source from the board will have about a 36ms delay from the board source. It's really not that hard to correct and as i said if you go to a small club frequently that gives the board access freeley it's a good thing to be comfortable with manually syncing your sources.

 

im going to be running 1+2 with MC930's

I will be running sbd in to Line on 3+4

and have it set up to record mix.  sounds right...

Sounds like you're in good shape.  Just a thought, though--if your mics are back near the soundboard, is there going to be a large time lag between the sbd patch and the mics that would render recording the mix useless?  I mean, you can still monitor the mix even if you don't record it (no SPDIF in for this gig, it sounds like), and if you know in advance it's not going to be usable, why record it?  Of course, if you are close enough to the stage so the time lag isn't a problem, or even think it might be usable, go for it.  I find I almost always get better mixes in post, though--just hard to dial it in precisely during the performance when you're in the same room. 

Panning just controls left/right placement in the stereo image.  If you're concerned about sbd/mic ratio in the mix channel recording, it's the "MIX LEVEL" button on the front that you want.

Good Luck

[Chuck]

Just to add to what DATPAT said...

Also check to make sure the phase is the same. Sometimes the phase of the SBD feed is 180 degrees different than the phase of the AUD recording. That's easy to spot as one WAV will go up and the other will go down when aligned properly.

[achalsey]

Just to add to what DATPAT said...

Also check to make sure the phase is the same. Sometimes the phase of the SBD feed is 180 degrees different than the phase of the AUD recording. That's easy to spot as one WAV will go up and the other will go down when aligned properly.

Okay, this is off topic, but I do a lot of sbd/aud mixes and this seems to happen a lot and I've never corrected it/didn't know it was anything out of the ordinary.  To fix you just invert one of the sources in post?

[Chuck]

Just to add to what DATPAT said...

Also check to make sure the phase is the same. Sometimes the phase of the SBD feed is 180 degrees different than the phase of the AUD recording. That's easy to spot as one WAV will go up and the other will go down when aligned properly.

Okay, this is off topic, but I do a lot of sbd/aud mixes and this seems to happen a lot and I've never corrected it/didn't know it was anything out of the ordinary.  To fix you just invert one of the sources in post?

Yeah, just invert phase on the SBD feed in post. I change the SBD tracks, because I know the phase of my mics are correct.

[kirk97132]

As for panning on the deck.  I don't gang channels so I then record in mono.  I then do any panning in post.  I also would just forget about any kind of 60/40  25/75 90/10 ratio ideas.  Just mix in post to taste.  You won't really be making any serious mixdown to your stereo track, if you record that at all IMHO.  most peeps that do that do it as a lets see how this stuff works or as a quick down and dirty first impression mix.  But they do not try to do that as a final mix.  That's the reason and beauty of having those tracks to take home and get it JUST RIGHT.  Otherwise you could just be using your UA-5 and doing on the fly matrix's without spending the money on a 680.  Depending on how hot a mic sounds or whether a SBD is sending you consumer or professional line levels are all going to affect how "loud" things sound.  Not to mention that all SBD feeds are not equal.  Might be the SBD feed has only vocals since the place is small and the band is plenty loud on there own.  Or like a lot of feeds in mid sized rooms you'll find the vocals WAY out in front of the instruments.  Remember the sound guy/girl is mixing for the room, not to give your board feed a nice even sound.  And if you have ever tried to mix  a matrix on the fly at a show you'll know how hard it is to accurately hear your mix in the headphones plus the 680 does not have a lot of gain on the headphones anyway.  And speaking of matrixing and mixing mic & sbd.  Anything past 5-6 feet and you really should sync the tracks.  Even when I run mics at stage lip unless it's a really shallow stage I can zoom in and see the two sources are not perfectly aligned.  Even syncing that tiny little difference will help yield a mix that is crisper and better sounding.  I"d suggest record track mono, mix in post to taste.  Record an on the fly mix for fun but not as a final product.  Repeat until you can run your deck without a flashlight in the dark

[kirk97132]

Just to add to what DATPAT said...

Also check to make sure the phase is the same. Sometimes the phase of the SBD feed is 180 degrees different than the phase of the AUD recording. That's easy to spot as one WAV will go up and the other will go down when aligned properly.

Okay, this is off topic, but I do a lot of sbd/aud mixes and this seems to happen a lot and I've never corrected it/didn't know it was anything out of the ordinary.  To fix you just invert one of the sources in post?

Yeah, just invert phase on the SBD feed in post. I change the SBD tracks, because I know the phase of my mics are correct.

Adobe Audition actually has a phase meter that you can look at and see if something is out of phase.  I use it all the time when mixing.  And as you get deeper into multitrack recording you'll find there are times you want to run things out of phase to make it sound better.  IE: mic'ing top and bottom of a snare drum or doing the top and bottom of a Leslie cabinet.  But we are getting a little off topic now

[MULETAPER]

Okay mine just showed up and did not come with a manual.

"mix trim," "mix pan," and "rec trim."  Do I want to pan the left full left, and right full right?  I don't think I want to but will leave that up for advise.  Mix level, what is that?  1/2 arrived at 75, 3/4 at 0.  Thats all I'm using for now so whats the deal?  Rec trim I put everything to 0.

heres a link to the manual PDF...http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/43/E_DR-680_OM_vA.pdf

[ShawnF]

I think we're actually in agreement about the monitoring--you can't monitor both the SPDIF and analog signals at the same time (that is, simultaneously).  You have to switch between MIX MON and DIN MON, as you mentioned.

If you mean you cannot monitor the SPDIF input and the stereo mix channel levels at the same time, your are correct.  However you can monitor the 6 individual analog inputs and the SPDIF input at the same time when set to DIN MON.

You can indeed record a SPDIF signal to 5/6 and a stereo mixdown, but my point was that the SPDIF signal won't be part of the mixdown--it's just the analog channels.  At least, I'm pretty certain that's the case.

Never tried that so I don't know.  But if you are able to record record SPDIF to 5/6 along with a simultaneous analog stereo mixdown of the other 4 channels, I'd be suprised that you can't see levels for all those things at the same time.  Does it not show SPDIF input levels sent to 5/6 on the 5/6 meters?  If not, and SPDIF input levels are always displayed on the stereo meter regardless of which channels SPDIF is selected to record to, then I understand why both could not be monitored simultaneously.  However even if that is indeed the case, you should be able to switch between showing SPDIF 5/6 levels and showing the stereomix levels by going to the quick menu and switching from DIN MON to MIX MON while recording, you just wouldn't see both at the same time.

I'll have to play around with that sometime.

I don't mean to beat this into the ground, just trying to clarify.  Muletaper, don't let us confuse you with these arcane details which are unimportant to getting started with this recorder!

Sorry, I see where the issue is now, and it's my fault for being loose in terminology and not realizing it sooner.  What I meant by "monitor" was to aurally monitor the audio via headphones whilst recording, and I think what I said was accurate--I don't think it's ever possible to hear the SPDIF and analog signals simultaneously on this unit.  You can definitely visually monitor both individual analog signals and the SPDIF input when when the latter is recorded as tracks 5 & 6.  I think when SPDIF is on the MIX track, you have to do the DIN MON switch as we've mentioned to see the SPDIF levels on the MIX channel; otherwise in MIX MON I think you're just seeing the analog inputs and the MIX channel shows the analog-only mix.  Sorry for the confusion!

[Gutbucket]

Yep, we're on the same page Shawn.

"mix trim," "mix pan," and "rec trim."  Do I want to pan the left full left, and right full right?  I don't think I want to but will leave that up for advise.  Mix level, what is that?  1/2 arrived at 75, 3/4 at 0.  Thats all I'm using for now so whats the deal?  Rec trim I put everything to 0.

To start simply, you only need concern yourself with 'rec trim'.  Forget about mix level and mix pan, they don't effect the indvidual recorded channels, only the optional internal mixdown to the stereo channel (or to the headphone and mixed outputs).

As for panning on the deck.  I don't gang channels so I then record in mono.  I then do any panning in post. 

Ganging channels has no relation to choosing to write mono, stereo, or multichannel interleaved files when recording, or on choosing to do an internal mixdown to the stereo channel.  It only effects how you adjust the controls.  You can gang just some or all of the channels, maybe make three seperate stereo groups: 1+2, 3+4, 5+6 or whatever to adjust gain simultaneously across each group while recording, even if you are writing individual mono files.  Ganging also applies to the mix pan and mix level controls the same way, the number of tracks per file doesn't matter.

[snip]..as you get deeper into multitrack recording you'll find there are times you want to run things out of phase to make it sound better.  IE: mic'ing top and bottom of a snare drum or doing the top and bottom of a Leslie cabinet.  But we are getting a little off topic now

FWIW, the thing about flipping polarity (phase) on one mic of a pair placed on opposite sides of a drum makes sense when you think about the movement of the drum head when hit- it moves inwards on one side while moving outwards from the other side, so if you don't invert polarity on one mic you get tracks that are naturally out of polarity with each other.

It's usually pretty easy to hear which polarity choice is 'better' by listening to the low end.  If it sounds thin and washy, try flipping polarity on one source and see if it sounds fatter.  If one channel of a stero pair is out of polarity with the other, in addition to loss of bass the stereo image will probably sound indistict without a solid center.  The correct choice is usually the one with more bass, but as Kirk knows there are some good exceptions to almost everything.

[MULETAPER]

>>>>>>Muletaper, don't let us confuse you with these arcane details which are unimportant to getting started with this recorder!


you already had lost me.

ive decided to run 2 channels and just get use to using it.

I'll figure it all out,I just need to nail it down before Little feat next week. tonights for fun anyway. I still didnt find din-mon setting.

[kirk97132]

Yep, we're on the same page Shawn.

"mix trim," "mix pan," and "rec trim."  Do I want to pan the left full left, and right full right?  I don't think I want to but will leave that up for advise.  Mix level, what is that?  1/2 arrived at 75, 3/4 at 0.  Thats all I'm using for now so whats the deal?  Rec trim I put everything to 0.

To start simply, you only need concern yourself with 'rec trim'.  Forget about mix level and mix pan, they don't effect the indvidual recorded channels, only the optional internal mixdown to the stereo channel (or to the headphone and mixed outputs).

As for panning on the deck.  I don't gang channels so I then record in mono.  I then do any panning in post. 

Ganging channels has no relation to choosing to write mono, stereo, or multichannel interleaved files when recording, or on choosing to do an internal mixdown to the stereo channel.  It only effects how you adjust the controls.  You can gang just some or all of the channels, maybe make three seperate stereo groups: 1+2, 3+4, 5+6 or whatever to adjust gain simultaneously across each group while recording, even if you are writing individual mono files.  Ganging also applies to the mix pan and mix level controls the same way, the number of tracks per file doesn't matter.

[snip]..as you get deeper into multitrack recording you'll find there are times you want to run things out of phase to make it sound better.  IE: mic'ing top and bottom of a snare drum or doing the top and bottom of a Leslie cabinet.  But we are getting a little off topic now

FWIW, the thing about flipping polarity (phase) on one mic of a pair placed on opposite sides of a drum makes sense when you think about the movement of the drum head when hit- it moves inwards on one side while moving outwards from the other side, so if you don't invert polarity on one mic you get tracks that are naturally out of polarity with each other.

It's usually pretty easy to hear which polarity choice is 'better' by listening to the low end.  If it sounds thin and washy, try flipping polarity on one source and see if it sounds fatter.  If one channel of a stero pair is out of polarity with the other, in addition to loss of bass the stereo image will probably sound indistict without a solid center.  The correct choice is usually the one with more bass, but as Kirk knows there are some good exceptions to almost everything.

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought you could not gang level adjustments in mono, only in stereo record setting.  Or at least I cannot get it to gang any level settings when recording is set for mono

[achalsey]

So I think I've decided running XLR out of the V2 is just too hot of a signal for my sensitive mics. 

So, is there any difference running RCA > XLR vs. RCA > 1/4"?  Since the RCA is coming out unbalanced, is it just a matter of preference on what to use?

[Gutbucket]

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought you could not gang level adjustments in mono, only in stereo record setting.  Or at least I cannot get it to gang any level settings when recording is set for mono

That's the way I usually run it. I recorded 8 channels last night, ganged 1,2,3 and 5,6 and ended up with 6 mono files plus one stereo file from the SPDIF input.

[Gutbucket]

Since the RCA is coming out unbalanced, is it just a matter of preference on what to use?

Yes but, why not use a balanced connection and just reduce gain on the V2 by 6dB?

I just plugged a tone generator into a V3, made a balanced connection to the DR680, set the input sensitivity to line, trim to +/-0, and switched on a +4dBu tone.  I can add 17dB of gain on the V3 to that line-level signal before peaking the meter on the 680.  I doubt you'll have a problem.

How sensitive are your mics?

[achalsey]

Since the RCA is coming out unbalanced, is it just a matter of preference on what to use?

Yes but, why not use a balanced connection and just reduce gain on the V2 by 6dB?

I just plugged a tone generator into a V3, made a balanced connection to the DR680, set the input sensitivity to line, trim to +/-0, and switched on a +4dBu tone.  I can add 17dB of gain on the V3 to that line-level signal before peaking the meter on the 680.  I doubt you'll have a problem.

How sensitive are your mics?

Sort of a thread jack for a second, sorry:

I'm not really sure.  I don't know nearly enough about the technical side of all this.  It was my first time running XLR out and I was peaking alright on the 680, around -13 or 14, but was flashing red on the V2 consistently with just 9 dbs of gain on the right channel, and 13 on the left.  It was an outdoor show.  Pretty loud for an outdoor show, but nothing crazy.  I was about 40' from the stage.  The only other time I've been flashing red like that was when I ran onstage for a ridiculously loud show.  Had the gain basically as off as it would go for that.

The mics are the CK 1X with the active/PFA set up.  Apparently however the cable is wired, or PFA, or something, makes the signal really hot.  Or at least mine are.

[kirk97132]

sorry that gutbucket and I veered off track...you guys will understand why later   ( i have to look deeper into that thanks GB!)  Having hot mic at your preamp(V2) does not really have any bearing on the input of the 680.  But I second the choice to use a balanced input(TRS-stereo 1/4" or XLR)  TS(tip & sleeve or a mono 1/4" jack) is always my last choice.  The balanced connections in general will have less of a chance of noise.  Be it ground loops or whatever.  IF your preamp can handle the mics output then run balanced out of it into the 680,or XLR in your case.  I use a sound devices MP-2 sometimes and use the XLR out's.  On that unit it has an 1/6" line level output that runs at a lower level than the XLR's.  I used to have to use the lower output with things like a microtracker or an HD-P2 I had sine they do not play well with a hot input.  The 680 can handle the hot input. 

[achalsey]

sorry that gutbucket and I veered off track...you guys will understand why later   ( i have to look deeper into that thanks GB!)  Having hot mic at your preamp(V2) does not really have any bearing on the input of the 680.  But I second the choice to use a balanced input(TRS-stereo 1/4" or XLR)  TS(tip & sleeve or a mono 1/4" jack) is always my last choice.  The balanced connections in general will have less of a chance of noise.  Be it ground loops or whatever.  IF your preamp can handle the mics output then run balanced out of it into the 680,or XLR in your case.  I use a sound devices MP-2 sometimes and use the XLR out's.  On that unit it has an 1/6" line level output that runs at a lower level than the XLR's.  I used to have to use the lower output with things like a microtracker or an HD-P2 I had sine they do not play well with a hot input.  The 680 can handle the hot input.

Question about that.  Are you saying to get two stereo (TRS) 1/4" jacks?  We made the mistake using TRS 1/4" jacks for a SBD feed once and the levels were all funky. 

ETA: it was a SBD (TRS 1/4") > DR-2d (1/8" stereo) feed, not sure if that changes anything.

[kirk97132]

sorry that gutbucket and I veered off track...you guys will understand why later   ( i have to look deeper into that thanks GB!)  Having hot mic at your preamp(V2) does not really have any bearing on the input of the 680.  But I second the choice to use a balanced input(TRS-stereo 1/4" or XLR)  TS(tip & sleeve or a mono 1/4" jack) is always my last choice.  The balanced connections in general will have less of a chance of noise.  Be it ground loops or whatever.  IF your preamp can handle the mics output then run balanced out of it into the 680,or XLR in your case.  I use a sound devices MP-2 sometimes and use the XLR out's.  On that unit it has an 1/6" line level output that runs at a lower level than the XLR's.  I used to have to use the lower output with things like a microtracker or an HD-P2 I had sine they do not play well with a hot input.  The 680 can handle the hot input.

Question about that.  Are you saying to get two stereo (TRS) 1/4" jacks?  We made the mistake using TRS 1/4" jacks for a SBD feed once and the levels were all funky. 

ETA: it was a SBD (TRS 1/4") > DR-2d (1/8" stereo) feed, not sure if that changes anything.

Changes everything.  TRS, or Tip Ring & Sleeve is EXACTLY the same as an XLR connector.  IE:Pin 1 - ground; Pin - 2 hot; Pin - 3 cold. 

What confused you was that a TRS plug is laid out the same way a 1/4 headphone plug is, well physically it is.  But the way a headphone jack carries signal is Tip 1 channel, ring 2nd channel, sleeve ground for both channels.   In your case you only had one channel of a balanced signal.  The correct adapter in that case would have been 1 TRS > 2 TRS.(xlr) >2TRS(xlr) >1/8" mini jack.  You can't just got 1/4" balanced into 1/8 stereo 

What probably happened is that you only got a signal on one channel, the other channel was either dead or noise.   And to futher confuse things the inserts on a SBD use the exact same sized plugs.  I won't get into that since I think it would just add to the confusion. 

When you are taking a balanced output from a SBD (TRS oR XLR)  it is a three wire set up with only two wires carrying signal.  IF you want to use splitters it means split it into two the same kind of plugsthat you are splitting from.

[Gutbucket]

Yeah, the fact that the same 3 conductor connector can be used to pass either a single channel balanced signal or a two channel unbalanced signal confuses things.  By the way, it's not just TRS plugs that are used both ways like this, mini-xlrs are also often used both ways around here.  The exception seems to be standard size XLRs. I don't think I've ever or seen heard of standard size XLRs being used for unbalanced analog signals.

If you plug a TRS jack carrying a balanced signal into a TRS stereo input on your recorder, what you end up with is the identical mono signal recorded on both channels, but one channel in opposite polarity to the other. 

..and that gets to how a balanced line works- only signal with opposite polarity in each leg is allowed to pass freely through the balanced circuitry in the recieving equipment.  Signal showing with the same polarity in each leg is cancled.  The good signal we want has opposite polarity and is allowd to pass, electical interferenece noise picked up along the way has the same polarity gets blocked.

[achalsey]

Oh, wow, okay.  That clears up a lot!  Thanks.  I didn't know what TRS stood for or meant, so assumed a TRS 1/4" was the same sort of deal as a double banded 1/8" stereo plug.  I clearly have not done my homework.