Topic: MicroTrack 24/96 Beta 1.2.0

[neutrino]

Come and get it...

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers

New Items:
- Level meters display levels when playing back files
- Level meters operate in REC PAUSE for easier level setting
- Audio inputs can be heard when in REC PAUSE as well as REC (only for analog inputs)

New UI Items:
- Reboots the unit instead of shutting down when a CF card is inserted
- Pop-up menu added if the user tries to power off while recording
- All input controls will be active during record or record pause, allowing you to adjust your levels more easily.

General Fixes:
- Input and Headphone level controls work more smoothly when held down
- FFWD or REW no longer cause the timer to flash the time ’00:00:00’ when engaged.
- Record time available in main screen counts down from the lesser of space available, or 2GB file limit.
- Remaining record time is now calculated properly when recording from SPDIF input
- Several bugs with HOLD button fixed:
    - Now stops phantom power from turning on and off
    - Now works if booted from card reader mode
    - Continues to work if file was closed because of max file size or no media full

[Kyle]

============================================================

Changes from v1.1.5 to v1.2.0:

New Items:
- Level meters display levels when playing back files
- Level meters operate in REC PAUSE for easier level setting
- Audio inputs can be heard when in REC PAUSE as well as REC (only for analog inputs)

New UI Items:
- Reboots the unit instead of shutting down when a CF card is inserted
- Pop-up menu added if the user tries to power off while recording
- All input controls will be active during record or record pause, allowing you to adjust your levels more easily.

General Fixes:
- Input and Headphone level controls work more smoothly when held down
- FFWD or REW no longer cause the timer to flash the time ’00:00:00’ when engaged.
- Record time available in main screen counts down from the lesser of space available, or 2GB file limit.
- Remaining record time is now calculated properly when recording from SPDIF input
- Several bugs with HOLD button fixed:
    - Now stops phantom power from turning on and off
    - Now works if booted from card reader mode
    - Continues to work if file was closed because of max file size or no media full

============================================================
Changes from v1.0.2 to v1.1.5:

New Items:
   - S/PDIF is enhanced to 24-bit/48kHz, and is more reliable
   - Spanish language added

General Fixes:
   - Fixed the behavior of the L/M/H switch (L and H were reversed)
   - Fixed a problem with the File menu (recorded files would not play from the Files menu until the machine was rebooted)
   - Fixed problem where "no media found" message didn't always show
   - Adjusted screen contrast range

Fixing Meters:
   - Fixed battery meter (if full and the external power was removed,the level dropped approximately 5-10%)
   - Fixed level meter length (the bar of the level meter maxed out about 8 pixels shy of the end of the track,
     so it appeared that the unit had headroom left, even though it was clipping)

Fixing Pops:
   - Eliminated pop noises on boot-up
   - Eliminated static noises at the end of tracks
============================================================

gettin there!

[udovdh]

Come and get it...

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers

New Items:
- Level meters display levels when playing back files
- Level meters operate in REC PAUSE for easier level setting
- Audio inputs can be heard when in REC PAUSE as well as REC (only for analog inputs)

New UI Items:
- Reboots the unit instead of shutting down when a CF card is inserted
- Pop-up menu added if the user tries to power off while recording
- All input controls will be active during record or record pause, allowing you to adjust your levels more easily.

General Fixes:
- Input and Headphone level controls work more smoothly when held down
- FFWD or REW no longer cause the timer to flash the time ’00:00:00’ when engaged.
- Record time available in main screen counts down from the lesser of space available, or 2GB file limit.
- Remaining record time is now calculated properly when recording from SPDIF input
- Several bugs with HOLD button fixed:
    - Now stops phantom power from turning on and off
    - Now works if booted from card reader mode
    - Continues to work if file was closed because of max file size or no media full

2GB issue!?  it is fixed? Not if we read this?

[Chris K]

this is a nice sign and a good pace for new (albeit beta) firmware releases. about one every month. 

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Very nice. I will be testing @ Trey next week! 

[BC]

damn, still didn't fix the channel flipping on 24 bit digi in huh?
   
At least getting the correct time remaining was a big one.   

[udovdh]

BTW: Nothing about the ever present 14 dB of gain... 

[Sebastian]

New UI Items:
- Reboots the unit instead of shutting down when a CF card is inserted
- Pop-up menu added if the user tries to power off while recording

Reboots? I don't want it to restart *at all*.
And if you press the hold button long enough the MT still powers off.

At least the levels can now be set in pause mode and you can actually hold the button down. And the menus seem to be a bit faster as well...

[cmoorevt]

- Audio inputs can be heard when in REC PAUSE as well as REC (only for analog inputs)

Hmmm.  Does this mean that when recording via spdif in, you still can't hear the recording thru the headphone jack, nor pass signal thru the rca outs?

Also, I wonder if it fixed the levels going haywire after +/- 20 minutes.

[keepongoin]

faq is updated as per this information.

[timewasajoke]

i wrote a few weeks ago about a issue i was having where on playback of a recording i could only listen to about 20 min before i got nothing but silence,
but when transfered to my HD everything was there.

M-audio replied to my post asking me some general info about my flash card.

They are concerned about pleasing us because here is a private e-mail i just got from them...

Hello, right now we are working on a firmware update that will address this issue. If you like, there is a beta version firmware revision available on our website, but it will not address all the issues that the full version addresses.
 
The firmware update for the MicroTrack can be found here:
 
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers
 

[Sebastian]

I just got back from a show with the new firmware. The levels appear to be stable now (they don't mysteriously disappear anymore)...

[chitaper]

i wrote a few weeks ago about a issue i was having where on playback of a recording i could only listen to about 20 min before i got nothing but silence,
but when transfered to my HD everything was there.

I missed that post, but mine did the same thing once. I couldn't be sure that I hadn't done something to cause it, but you had the same problem.

[cmoorevt]

I just got back from a show with the new firmware. The levels appear to be stable now (they don't mysteriously disappear anymore)...

Just tested in my living room and get the same result.  No more haywire levels, even when running at low dbs.

Also, when I started recording, the MT showed the correct time remaining on my card.  Be interested to here if anyone else that was having time remaining issues finds that this has resolved it from them.

Unfortunately still no way to output a signal when running spdif in.

[deadheaded]

i updated firmware last night.  used the mt to record my radio show today.   v-3 > mt.
meters seem to be working much better.  my time remaining wasn't right  running 16/44 it said i had 2:39 left on an empty 6 gig microdrive.
they might not have gotten the time remaining bug fixed.
but good to see m-audio getting updates out pretty quickly.

[neutrino]

i updated firmware last night.  used the mt to record my radio show today.   v-3 > mt.
meters seem to be working much better.  my time remaining wasn't right  running 16/44 it said i had 2:39 left on an empty 6 gig microdrive.
they might not have gotten the time remaining bug fixed.
but good to see m-audio getting updates out pretty quickly.

The time remaining, which counts backward in the record window is the time remaining until you hit the 2gb limit, not the time available on your media. You have to go under RECORD SETTINGS > REC TIME AVAILABLE to view total time available on your media.

-Quote from firmware v1.2.0 README
"Record time available in main screen counts down from the lesser of space available, or 2GB file limit."

[JasonSobel]

i updated firmware last night.  used the mt to record my radio show today.   v-3 > mt.
meters seem to be working much better.  my time remaining wasn't right  running 16/44 it said i had 2:39 left on an empty 6 gig microdrive.
they might not have gotten the time remaining bug fixed.
but good to see m-audio getting updates out pretty quickly.

The time remaining, which counts backward in the record window is the time remaining until you hit the 2gb limit, not the time available on your media. You have to go under RECORD SETTINGS > REC TIME AVAILABLE to view total time available on your media.

-Quote from firmware v1.2.0 README
"Record time available in main screen counts down from the lesser of space available, or 2GB file limit."

that's all well and good, but he said it was an empty 6 gig card.  so the 2 gig should limit things.  he also said that his settings were at 16/44.1.  at that bit depth/sample rate, you shouldn't hit 2 gigs until more than 3 hours of record time, not 2:39...

[ghibliss]

I just  updated my firmware this afternoon and performed a test to check if the update fixed the meters as well as the display for the remaining time indicator for the CF card installed.  My Microtrack displayed 2 hours 6 minutes for the 4 GB card which I installed when selecting 24 bit at 44.1.  I was able to observe the meters fucntioning properly at various spl levels for the entire test period which was for the length of the file 2 hours and 6 minutes.  The Microtrack correctly closed the file after the 2 hour 6 minute time had elapsed and saved it before closing the file.    I recorded at a variety of spl levels and regardless of the settings used the MT appeared to perform without a glitch..

It would seem that the major problems have been addressed with this update.  Hopefully the balance of the issues with this device (which in my opinion are fairly trivial) will be addressed in future updates.  I am presently using a Coresound Mic 2496 mic preamplifier a/d convertor with a pair of DPA 4061 microphones.  I have used this settup via the coaxial spdif input on the Micortrack to record a few concerts so far with excellent results.  The only issue which I was concerned with was the reamaining file time idicator.  The meters although an important feature for some is meaningless to me as I use the meters on my preamplifier with excellent results.

Cliff

[deadheaded]

well i have transfered my radio show recording and had a couple of weird things happen.
as stated before the time remaining should have been over 3 hours at my 16/44 settings per the 2 gig limit.
now for the weird things i ran the recording for 2 hours 10 minutes, but the recorded time was only 1:59.
the v-3 was set at 16/44 but the file was recorded at 48k and it is sped up.  it sounds like the chipmunks singing the 5/8/77 scarlet begonias.
then i converted the sample rate to 44k with cool edit pro and it sounds totally normal.

WTF?

thanks
ed

[chitaper]

well i have transfered my radio show recording and had a couple of weird things happen.
as stated before the time remaining should have been over 3 hours at my 16/44 settings per the 2 gig limit.
now for the weird things i ran the recording for 2 hours 10 minutes, but the recorded time was only 1:59.
the v-3 was set at 16/44 but the file was recorded at 48k and it is sped up.  it sounds like the chipmunks singing the 5/8/77 scarlet begonias.
then i converted the sample rate to 44k with cool edit pro and it sounds totally normal.

WTF?

thanks
ed

Did you change the sample rate on the V3 after you started recording on the MT? Did you try just changing the header info before resampling?

[deadheaded]

no changes during the recording.
ii've never tried to change the header, i just tell cd wave not change anything.
also listened to the recording on the mt on my stereo and it is sped up on the file on the mt.

[alienbobz]

I had that same problem a couple of weeks ago. One set came out 24/88.2 when it should of been 24/48. What I did was open the wav file, save it as a .raw sound file, then pick the right settings (24/48), and it sounds fine. I then saved the .raw as a .wav. after that.

[timewasajoke]

i'm running 10.4.3 on this imac and can't seem to get the update to open. on the m-audio web page it only lists updates for 10.4.2, 10.4.1 and 10.3.9.  do i need to try this on my office machine that is running 10.4.2 ro am i just doing something wrong?

[fuzn]

I am very surprised that you can still turn this thing off in hold mode... Anyways, i'm happy they made it so phantom power can't turn on/off in hold mode, that's a great one. I've had the level meters crap out on me a few times, so that's a HUGE plus as well. These guys are getting there, that is for sure.

[JasonSobel]

has anyone run 24 bit S/PDIF tests?  channel flip-flops?  24/96 capabilities??  I won't have a chance to test these out until after Thanksgiving.  but if no one has tested it by then, I certainly will be happy to do it.  (actually, I'll probably run several 24 bit S/PDIF tests anyway, just because I like to see how it works for myself )

[udovdh]

I am very surprised that you can still turn this thing off in hold mode... Anyways, i'm happy they made it so phantom power can't turn on/off in hold mode, that's a great one. I've had the level meters crap out on me a few times, so that's a HUGE plus as well. These guys are getting there, that is for sure.

Yes, looks promising, but things are still a progressing a bit too slow for me.
For me the 2GB issue has priority.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

The time to move between menus seems improved.

But it seems like they changed the sensitivity of the nav button.  Now it often moves two places with only a slight press.. Yeah, they've added some kind of fast auto repeat to the button that is set too fast..

Once again, I am not at all impressed with their usability testing. You should be able to operate the unit in complete darkless with no fear of it doing unexpected things. The new button repeat is insanely fast (the delay before repeat begins is too short). I noticed this within SECONDS of using the new firmware.  How they miss stuff like this in testing boggles the mind.

[lstelie]

i'm running 10.4.3 on this imac and can't seem to get the update to open. on the m-audio web page it only lists updates for 10.4.2, 10.4.1 and 10.3.9.  do i need to try this on my office machine that is running 10.4.2 ro am i just doing something wrong?

Hello,

I'm on a 10.4.3 G5 and the update went fine

Luc

[timewasajoke]

i'm running 10.4.3 on this imac and can't seem to get the update to open. on the m-audio web page it only lists updates for 10.4.2, 10.4.1 and 10.3.9.  do i need to try this on my office machine that is running 10.4.2 ro am i just doing something wrong?

Hello,

I'm on a 10.4.3 G5 and the update went fine

Luc

i just updated the firmware for the mt on my office 10.4 G5 imac with no problem. i wonder what was up with my system 10.4.3 machine? i could get the update to download but when i attempted to open it i was asked to choose a application but nothing was listed in my options to create the folder i needed. Where on this 10.4 machine it created a microtrack v1 folder with one click with every thing i needed to successfully update my unit.

[udovdh]

Once again, I am not at all impressed with their usability testing. You should be able to operate the unit in complete darkless with no fear of it doing unexpected things. The new button repeat is insanely fast (the delay before repeat begins is too short). I noticed this within SECONDS of using the new firmware.  How they miss stuff like this in testing boggles the mind.

I.o.w: We want user settable repeat rate/delay parameters! 

[coloartist]

The time to move between menus seems improved.

But it seems like they changed the sensitivity of the nav button.  Now it often moves two places with only a slight press.. Yeah, they've added some kind of fast auto repeat to the button that is set too fast..

Once again, I am not at all impressed with their usability testing. You should be able to operate the unit in complete darkless with no fear of it doing unexpected things. The new button repeat is insanely fast (the delay before repeat begins is too short). I noticed this within SECONDS of using the new firmware.  How they miss stuff like this in testing boggles the mind.

It might be time for you to sell your's, Lunch.

[ghibliss]

I just found that the current firmware allows the ability to reset the file number to 0001.wav by selecting from the System menu "Factory Defaults".  I do not recall being able to perform this function propelry with the previous firmware release.  Previously the firmware had you begin at whatever file number followed the last file saved which is rather cumbersome after you have started with a blank CF card and expect file 0001.wav

It appears that the major problems are all being addressed fairly rapidly given the brief amount of time that this product has been omn the market.

[SClassical]

I just found that the current firmware allows the ability to reset the file number to 0001.wav by selecting from the System menu "Factory Defaults".  I do not recall being able to perform this function propelry with the previous firmware release.  Previously the firmware had you begin at whatever file number followed the last file saved which is rather cumbersome after you have started with a blank CF card and expect file 0001.wav

It appears that the major problems are all being addressed fairly rapidly given the brief amount of time that this product has been omn the market.

I was able to set it to 0001.wav before with the previous firmware by going to "Factory Defaults".

[Scooter]

I too noticed the sensitivity increased on the nav button.  it's very easy now to overshoot where you want to go.  Not really a big deal, but it's kinda annoying.  I can't seem to get the levels to register in rec/pause mode using spdif .  According to the fixes, this should work now, no??

[udovdh]

I too noticed the sensitivity increased on the nav button.  it's very easy now to overshoot where you want to go.  Not really a big deal, but it's kinda annoying.  I can't seem to get the levels to register in rec/pause mode using spdif .  According to the fixes, this should work now, no??

If so, please email techsupport at M-Audio and kindly explain the bug or that the fix is not OK, etc.
Also ask about the 2GB issue and voila!

[SonicSound]

I loaded the new firmware and reformatted my 6gb microdrive just before I left for a Lotus show last night (two openers).  The first band came on and I hit the record button (SPIDIF 24/28).  The levels were fine but I noticed that the time remaining indicator read /00:01:45   When it reached 00:01:45/00:00:00 the levels froze.  I was not sure if the unit was indicating correctly so I let it roll.  After about 40minutes the band stopped and I checked the recording - only recorded 1:45.  The next band started and had similar problems at first /00:06:54  and after the time ticked away I powered off/on and hit rec.... remaining rec time now indicated 01:04:02.  Now lotus comes on...  I hit rec and first indicates 00:00:00/00:06:23 after the time runs out message media full pops up.  I was pissed   In a moment of rage I reformated the drive.  Hit rec had same issue (media full) ...stopped powered off and hit record again and indicated I had just over and hour. The story goes on like this until the show was over.
WTF?  HELP

Never had this problem with the old firmware

[SonicSound]

In the meantime, loan me those mk8's since you can't really use them 

BLUMLEIN SWEET....

I think I figured out what the problem was. I must have hit the sample rate button on the V3 and was recording 24/88.2.  This would explain the recording limitation but would not explain why in the beginning I could only record 1:45min with a clean drive.  Maybe it's because the unit does not stably support @ 24/88.2 yet

Any thoughts?

[Chris K]

i had a better experience last nite at the same lotus show.  

going akg461>v2 rca out>1/"4 in MT at 24/48. when i first hit record it said i had over 3.5 hrs. lotus played one long set. the mt recorded 1hr 55min and stopped, i guess at the 2gig limit. i got all the whole set but i think it cut out during the encore, when i noticed the green level lights werent on, i simply hit record and it recorded the remainder of the show...about anohter 20min.

i 'm not sure how much i missed, but i was running the sbm-1>jb3 as backup...or was the mt the backup.

we have to keep flooding m-audio support with the automatic new file start at the 2gig limit.

[F.O.Bean]

In the meantime, loan me those mk8's since you can't really use them 

BLUMLEIN SWEET....

I think I figured out what the problem was. I must have hit the sample rate button on the V3 and was recording 24/88.2.  This would explain the recording limitation but would not explain why in the beginning I could only record 1:45min with a clean drive.  Maybe it's because the unit does not stably support @ 24/88.2 yet

Any thoughts?

bet thats what the problem was sam, prolly doesnt do anything higfher than 48k reliably yet

[Chris K]

sam the other nite taking a digi out from the v3 at 24/28 my mt recorded at 24/96 for the 1st set and 24/88.2 in the second set, but the mt was set at 24//48. not sure what happened there, but it was also at the  prior firmware.

[SonicSound]

sam the other nite taking a digi out from the v3 at 24/28 my mt recorded at 24/96 for the 1st set and 24/88.2 in the second set, but the mt was set at 24//48. not sure what happened there, but it was also at the  prior firmware.

That's interesting I thought the MT sample rate was auto not selectable for the SPIDF.  Was this before the 1.2.0 upgrade?  Was your digi from CraigT?

[Chris K]

while playing back files on the mt, is there a way to fast forward or reverse? i tried using the nav dealie but it just advances to the next file.

sam, not sure it spif is auto selecting or not. i would play it safe and set it appropriately on the mt

[ice8888]

i had the same 1:46 issue last night.  it was definitely NOT a sample rate issue since the mini-me was locked on to 24/48.  i emailed tech support that this needs to be fixed immediately and is unacceptable.  we'll see what we hear.   

[silentmark]

Ran 16441 last night for P&F, new firmware, no problems at all ... Oh busted out the shotguns, AKG568>sonosax>modsbm1, sounds pretty good 

[Nick Graham]

Does anybody have a contact email addy with M-Audio tech support? The last 2 times I've filled out the long form on their site....planning on sending another email urging them to work on the 2GB file limit.

[Sebastian]

while playing back files on the mt, is there a way to fast forward or reverse?

Hold the nav button up or down while playing a file. It works for me...

[RebelRebel]

Does anybody have a contact email addy with M-Audio tech support? The last 2 times I've filled out the long form on their site....planning on sending another email urging them to work on the 2GB file limit.

When I was planning on getting one as a backup to my 722 I used this email address:
support@m-audio.de

They always answered the next day. And as with all(or most) retailers/technicians of music/electronic products, their English is very good.

[neutrino]

Does anybody have a contact email addy with M-Audio tech support? The last 2 times I've filled out the long form on their site....planning on sending another email urging them to work on the 2GB file limit.

BetaDrivers@m-audio.com <BetaDrivers@m-audio.com>

[petal]

About the 2 GB limt - would a different format be a solution? I don't know if it's possible to change this, but surely there must be another loss-less format that doesn't have this problem. It could be a feature, a third format that could record bigger files than 2 GB in lossless quality.

Is it possible to add more file-formats to the firmware?
If yes, which formats would we like? (any open source formats out there that would be suitable? Flac perhaps?)

Just a thought...
Thomas

[John Kelly]

About the 2 GB limt - would a different format be a solution? I don't know if it's possible to change this, but surely there must be another loss-less format that doesn't have this problem. It could be a feature, a third format that could record bigger files than 2 GB in lossless quality.

Is it possible to add more file-formats to the firmware?
If yes, which formats would we like? (any open source formats out there that would be suitable? Flac perhaps?)

Just a thought...
Thomas

If the unit had the processing power Flac would work nicely.  I think the best format for uncompressed >2gig files would be wav64, or even an option for dual mono (which effectively gives you a 4 gig limit). 

[musicsherlock]

I loaded the new firmware and reformatted my 6gb microdrive just before I left for a Lotus show last night (two openers).  The first band came on and I hit the record button (SPIDIF 24/28).  The levels were fine but I noticed that the time remaining indicator read /00:01:45   When it reached 00:01:45/00:00:00 the levels froze.  I was not sure if the unit was indicating correctly so I let it roll.  After about 40minutes the band stopped and I checked the recording - only recorded 1:45.

Never had this problem with the old firmware

I'm getting similar times (~1:45) going 24/48 out of my UA-5 with at home testing...

That's interesting I thought the MT sample rate was auto not selectable for the SPIDF.  Was this before the 1.2.0 upgrade? 

I get Auto Detect Sample rates with spidf out with this firmware and the previous one...

[udovdh]

Does anybody have a contact email addy with M-Audio tech support? The last 2 times I've filled out the long form on their site....planning on sending another email urging them to work on the 2GB file limit.

M-Audio Hardware Support <techsupt@m-audio.com> ?

[petal]

If the unit had the processing power Flac would work nicely.  I think the best format for uncompressed >2gig files would be wav64, or even an option for dual mono (which effectively gives you a 4 gig limit). 

As I understand it, MP3-encoding is no work in the park - but then again the MP3-encoding might be hardcoded into a specific chip and not "just" a part of the firmware.

[whatboutbob]

About the 2 GB limt - would a different format be a solution? I don't know if it's possible to change this, but surely there must be another loss-less format that doesn't have this problem. It could be a feature, a third format that could record bigger files than 2 GB in lossless quality.

Is it possible to add more file-formats to the firmware?
If yes, which formats would we like? (any open source formats out there that would be suitable? Flac perhaps?)

Just a thought...
Thomas

This may be a bit out there...but the rockbox developers have had a *lot* of cooperation from the developer of wavpack (wavpack.com) in regards to playback on the iriver h1x0's...and they're looking at implementing wavpack recording on the same units.  I'm just an interested 3rd party, but perhaps there could be a marriage made there...i know wavpack certainly supports 24/96, and it seems they're looking for hardware support.  caveat: i've never actually heard a wavpack file, but apparently compression compares favourably to flac, and it is, of course, lossless.

[JasonSobel]

FLAC recording would be nice.  I also really like the dual mono .wav idea, effectively making it a 4 gig limit by creating two 2 gig files. (one mon file for each channel).

Regardless of any of these possible solutions, I think an auto-split is the most effective solution, and we should still press M-Audio on that issue more than others.

[bagtagsell]

Regardless of any of these possible solutions, I think an auto-split is the most effective solution, and we should still press M-Audio on that issue more than others.

agree

[udovdh]

Regardless of any of these possible solutions, I think an auto-split is the most effective solution, and we should still press M-Audio on that issue more than others.

agree

Just email them once a week or two?

[SonicSound]

Has anyone else tried recording (S/PIDF) 24/88.2?  I did it by accedent on Wednesday and have been testing it at home.  I am not sure how stable it is.  It still will not do 24/96, in fact when I tried it froze and had to power down.

[Nick Graham]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:    Microtrack 24/96
Date:    Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:02:23 -0600
From:    Nick Graham <wngraham@gmail.com>
To:    techsupt@m-audio.com


I'd sent an email last week requesting info on when a future
driver/firmware update would be available. Needless to say
I was quite excited and appreciative when I saw the new
Beta driver Tuesday.

Anyway, just curious if the next update would possibly address
the 2GB file size limit? That's one of the last remaining "bugs"
that needs to be fixed. The ability to seamlessly start a new
file is crucial to any type of  portable recording.

If you can consider that in the next update, it would make
a world of difference.

Thanks in advance!

Nick Graham
wngraham@gmail.com

[MattH]

It still will not do 24/96, in fact when I tried it froze and had to power down.

Is it doing 24/96 line in but not digi in? I'm interested in line in 24/96 at the moment. How big a difference does anyone think between this on-board A/D and most out-board A/D's? In case I missed them, any A/D comps done yet?

[Nick Graham]

Is it doing 24/96 line in but not digi in? I'm interested in line in 24/96 at the moment. How big a difference does anyone think between this on-board A/D and most out-board A/D's? In case I missed them, any A/D comps done yet?

I've ran 24/96 line in just fine twice. It's when running S/PDIF (digital) in that the freezing occurs. I've had no problems running 24/96 via the 1/4" input, and no problems running S/PDIF 16/48.

As far as the A/D, I've not done any direct comparisons, but it is comparable (though not quite as good to my ears) as the M1's A/D.

[MattH]

Nick, M1 doesn't do 24 bit so I guess you mean for 16 bit recordings you like the M1 A/D better. Does the MT dither down to 16 bits? If so, I would think that's an advantage over the M1.

Glad to hear the MT does 24/96 line in no prob.

[pfife]

I think Freelunch has some samples of a Beck show he taped going 4061's directly in, and to my ears, it sounded quite good at 24/96.  I think you can find them somewhere on the board.
 

[Nick Graham]

Nick, M1 doesn't do 24 bit so I guess you mean for 16 bit recordings you like the M1 A/D better. Does the MT dither down to 16 bits? If so, I would think that's an advantage over the M1.

Glad to hear the MT does 24/96 line in no prob.

Exactly. At 16 bit I *slightly* prefer the M1, but obviously having 24 bit capability gives the advantage to the Microtrack.

[ghibliss]

I recorded Stanley Clarke last night at the IMAC theater in Huntington Long Island.  I used the Core-Sound Mic 2496 with DPA 4061 microphones and the Microtrack at 24/44.1   The sound was amazing as the theater and audience was quite quiet providing significant dynamic range.  My indicated time remaining running at this rate is 2:05:58 and I am using a 4 GB card. 

The only issue which I have seen recently is that upon playback on the Microtrack the audio stops after roughly 90 seconds while the meters continue to function.  Fast forwarding with the button does not remedy the situation.  The files are perfectly intact when I transfer them from the recorder to my hard-drive so I am not overly concerned however this is something that M-Audio needs to address.  Has anyone else experienced this playback problem with their Microtrack?

[SonicSound]

The only issue which I have seen recently is that upon playback on the Microtrack the audio stops after roughly 90 seconds while the meters continue to function.  Fast forwarding with the button does not remedy the situation.  The files are perfectly intact when I transfer them from the recorder to my hard-drive so I am not overly concerned however this is something that M-Audio needs to address.  Has anyone else experienced this playback problem with their Microtrack?

Yes, I have had the same issue I thought they said they fixed it in the latest firmware - guess not

[Nick Graham]

I did some extensive testing last night, and saw where several of the "bugs" from the previous firmware/drivers have been addressed.

(1) You can now start new files without having to reboot the unit. I recorded for 30 minutes at a time last night, would start a new file, record for another 30 minutes, stop, record for another 30 minutes, and so on....and the unit never froze.

(2) Any changes made in the "Rec Settings" menu option now actually change without rebooting. As noted above I recorded several different 30 minute tests last night...and each time I'd start a new file I'd also change the settings, i.e. the first file was 16/44.1, the second was 16/48, the third was 24/48, and the fouth was 24/96. All files were verified as having the correct settings (bit depth/sample rate) in Wave Lab 5

All in all this thing is getting much more stable everyday. If they would just fix the 2GB limit, and figure out the 24/96 S/PDIF input...we'd have a clear winner.

[SonicSound]

(1) You can now start new files without having to reboot the unit. I recorded for 30 minutes at a time last night, would start a new file, record for another 30 minutes, stop, record for another 30 minutes, and so on....and the unit never froze.

After the nightmare experience I had last Wednesday with the MT, I also ran some tests and witnessed the following performance.  Yes the MT will allow you to stop and start recording w/o rebooting.  However the MT does not reset the recording count down time after you stop and restart the recorder.  Example if you begin your first recording and say it initially indicates 01:45:00 recording time and after 1 hour you have 45minutes remaining and you engage the stop button.  When you start the next recording the unit indicates that you now only have 00:45:00 recording time remaining – not a fresh 01:45:00.  The only time it resets the recording time remaining is after you let the recording go for the full duration and you get the media full screen. 

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?

[Nick Graham]

(1) You can now start new files without having to reboot the unit. I recorded for 30 minutes at a time last night, would start a new file, record for another 30 minutes, stop, record for another 30 minutes, and so on....and the unit never froze.

After the nightmare experience I had last Wednesday with the MT, I also ran some tests and witnessed the following performance.  Yes the MT will allow you to stop and start recording w/o rebooting.  However the MT does not reset the recording count down time after you stop and restart the recorder.  Example if you begin your first recording and say it initially indicates 01:45:00 recording time and after 1 hour you have 45minutes remaining and you engage the stop button.  When you start the next recording the unit indicates that you now only have 00:45:00 recording time remaining – not a fresh 01:45:00.  The only time it resets the recording time remaining is after you let the recording go for the full duration and you get the media full screen. 

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?

Hmmmm...my tests last night were just the opposite. I'd start a new file, record for 30 minutes (with 1:26 left on the screen), start a new file - and had the full 1:56 left before the 2GB limit.

[SonicSound]

(1) You can now start new files without having to reboot the unit. I recorded for 30 minutes at a time last night, would start a new file, record for another 30 minutes, stop, record for another 30 minutes, and so on....and the unit never froze.

After the nightmare experience I had last Wednesday with the MT, I also ran some tests and witnessed the following performance.  Yes the MT will allow you to stop and start recording w/o rebooting.  However the MT does not reset the recording count down time after you stop and restart the recorder.  Example if you begin your first recording and say it initially indicates 01:45:00 recording time and after 1 hour you have 45minutes remaining and you engage the stop button.  When you start the next recording the unit indicates that you now only have 00:45:00 recording time remaining – not a fresh 01:45:00.  The only time it resets the recording time remaining is after you let the recording go for the full duration and you get the media full screen. 

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?

Hmmmm...my tests last night were just the opposite. I'd start a new file, record for 30 minutes (with 1:26 left on the screen), start a new file - and had the full 1:56 left before the 2GB limit.

I was recording S/PIDF 24/48 what mode were you in?

[Nick Graham]

I was running analog 1/4" in...

It seems the unit's bugs are more commonplace when running digi-in

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Recorded Trey last night in Denver with the new Firmware. All went smoothly.

Had to start a new recording when Trey started playing acoustic. New file started in about 15 seconds, and the second file got the full 1h:55m.

I will be very happy when/if they add seemless 24/48.

It will be very nice if they have the seemless thing done by the end of Dec. I have 3 Drive By Truckers shows, and I'm sure they will go over the 2GB limit.

MIKE B

[alienbobz]

Last night was my first outing with the new firmware and ran into the same problem with the time. Ran s/pdif 24/48. First recording came up as ~1:40. 1st set ran about 1:06. Second 0:28. Unfortunately I tried to figure out why it said 36 mins left and part of the second set is cut, but I have been running my JB3 as backup (optical in) ever since I bought this so all was not lost. Anyone figured out a way to go back to the previous firmware? If this is going to be a problem for a while then I rather go back to messed up levels then having time issues .

[Nick Graham]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:    Microtrack 24/96
Date:    Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:02:23 -0600
From:    Nick Graham <wngraham@gmail.com>
To:    techsupt@m-audio.com


I'd sent an email last week requesting info on when a future
driver/firmware update would be available. Needless to say
I was quite excited and appreciative when I saw the new
Beta driver Tuesday.

Anyway, just curious if the next update would possibly address
the 2GB file size limit? That's one of the last remaining "bugs"
that needs to be fixed. The ability to seamlessly start a new
file is crucial to any type of  portable recording.

If you can consider that in the next update, it would make
a world of difference.

Thanks in advance!

Nick Graham
wngraham@gmail.com

Here's the reply I got back:

From: techsupt@m-audio.com <techsupt@m-audio.com>
Date: Nov 28, 2005 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: Microtrack 24/96
To: Nick Graham <wngraham@gmail.com>

Thank you for the information, I will refer this to our driver developers.

Unfortunately I am unable to suggest a workaround for this problem at the
present time.


Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

JS

[F.O.Bean]

not good info at all nick

[Brian Skalinder]

not good info at all nick

The person responding to emails probably isn't the decision maker about what does or does not make it into the next release.  And the next release's content probably isn't even planned yet, or if planned doubtfully finalized, so it's not surprising they're providing generic, non-committal replies at this time.  Calling it "not good info at all" is an overreaction, IMO.  But that's okay, we're accustomed to your naysaying, Bean. 

[F.O.Bean]

not good info at all nick

The person responding to emails probably isn't the decision maker about what does or does not make it into the next release.  And the next release's content probably isn't even planned yet, or if planned doubtfully finalized, so it's not surprising they're providing generic, non-committal replies at this time.  Calling it "not good info at all" is an overreaction, IMO.  But that's okay, we're accustomed to your naysaying, Bean. 

I knew you'd jump in on that

why the hell do you look at every comment i make as nasty nick said they didnt have a future frimware planned for the 2gb limit, id say all day:

THATS NOT GOOD NEWS

and why is someone who doenst know whats going on w/ the product even reply

fuck ya'll, im done saying anything at all in these threads, hope that makes your toy purchase worth it in your minds

[Nick Graham]

Calm down Beavis...

[BC]

Nick, M1 doesn't do 24 bit so I guess you mean for 16 bit recordings you like the M1 A/D better. Does the MT dither down to 16 bits? If so, I would think that's an advantage over the M1.

Glad to hear the MT does 24/96 line in no prob.

Exactly. At 16 bit I *slightly* prefer the M1, but obviously having 24 bit capability gives the advantage to the Microtrack.

Hmm, just checked m-audio's website and given the S/N ratio of 98 dB, seems like running 24 bit analog in on the MT offers almost no advantage to 16 bit.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_gb/MicroTrack2496-focus.html

Sorry for straying off topic...

[Nick Graham]

Nick, M1 doesn't do 24 bit so I guess you mean for 16 bit recordings you like the M1 A/D better. Does the MT dither down to 16 bits? If so, I would think that's an advantage over the M1.

Glad to hear the MT does 24/96 line in no prob.

Exactly. At 16 bit I *slightly* prefer the M1, but obviously having 24 bit capability gives the advantage to the Microtrack.

Hmm, just checked m-audio's website and given the S/N ratio of 98 dB, seems like running 24 bit analog in on the MT offers almost no advantage to 16 bit.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_gb/MicroTrack2496-focus.html

By "advantage" I simply meant the ability to run 24 bit was an advantage...

Good find though.

[rodeen]

I ran my MT with 1.2.0 firmware last night and things went well.  I recorded at 16/44.1, fed via SPDIF from my UA-5,  onto a 2GB compact flash card.  The meters worked fine the whole night.  No lockups.  The time available timers works fine also.  The only problem I had was that the show ran 30 seconds longer than what I had storage for.  Since I had DAT and JB3 running also I thought it would be a good test to see how it handled full media.  It briefly flashed that the media was full and stopped recording and it also saved everything up to the point that the media filled up.  About the only flaw in the full media case was that it appears to have left a "tmp" directory on the card.  It should clean up after itself but it didn't hurt anything.  The meters still need some kind of scale or at the very least a mark for -12db.  I would still be concerned trying to set levels base on their meters.  I guess they are better than the level meters on the UA-5  :-)

[it-goes-to-eleven]

And the next release's content probably isn't even planned yet, or if planned doubtfully finalized, so it's not surprising they're providing generic, non-committal replies at this time.

They owe the people who purchased the product on GOOD FAITH a date on when they expect to have this, and other major omissions/bugs, resolved.

My understanding of a law is that there is an implied warranty of merchantability on the product. When they sell you a product and it is later revealed to be beta and missing features that were advertised, they have violated that warranty. We now wait in good faith for them to resolve the issues.  If they do not resolve the issues, they will have to issue refunds.

[John Kelly]

not good info at all nick

The person responding to emails probably isn't the decision maker about what does or does not make it into the next release.  And the next release's content probably isn't even planned yet, or if planned doubtfully finalized, so it's not surprising they're providing generic, non-committal replies at this time.  Calling it "not good info at all" is an overreaction, IMO.  But that's okay, we're accustomed to your naysaying, Bean. 

I knew you'd jump in on that

why the hell do you look at every comment i make as nasty nick said they didnt have a future frimware planned for the 2gb limit, id say all day:

THATS NOT GOOD NEWS

and why is someone who doenst know whats going on w/ the product even reply

fuck ya'll, im done saying anything at all in these threads, hope that makes your toy purchase worth it in your minds

What Nick received was a reply from Technical Support, meaning people paid very little to answer emails from a script.  The fact that they said they'd pass it along to the driver developers is GOOD news, not bad news.

And the next release's content probably isn't even planned yet, or if planned doubtfully finalized, so it's not surprising they're providing generic, non-committal replies at this time.

They owe the people who purchased the product on GOOD FAITH a date on when they expect to have this, and other major omissions/bugs, resolved.

My understanding of a law is that there is an implied warranty of merchantability on the product. When they sell you a product and it is later revealed to be beta and missing features that were advertised, they have violated that warranty. We now wait in good faith for them to resolve the issues.  If they do not resolve the issues, they will have to issue refunds.

If this is all about the 2 gig limit you really need to relax.  There were never any advertisements regarding the way the MT would handle files over 2 gigs. 

And how is the MT a beta???  The new *firmware* is a beta, but you can run the 1.0 firmware and not have a beta product - it's up to you.

[Brian Skalinder]

I knew you'd jump in on that

why the hell do you look at every comment i make as nasty

Not nasty, just negative - you repeatedly chime in with Negative Ned comments on the MT2496.  I simply attempt to offset your perception (someone with a very bleak opinion of the MT who's never actually run one) with that of my own (someone with a relatively more practical and realistic opinion who actually runs one).

nick said they didnt have a future frimware planned for the 2gb limit, id say all day:

THATS NOT GOOD NEWS

and why is someone who doenst know whats going on w/ the product even reply

John Kelly already addressed this one.

fuck ya'll, im done saying anything at all in these threads, hope that makes your toy purchase worth it in your minds

Suit yourself.  It was obviously worth it in my mind, since it does everything I need it to at the moment.  And obviously worth it in others' minds since they're still using it.

[udovdh]

If this is all about the 2 gig limit you really need to relax.  There were never any advertisements regarding the way the MT would handle files over 2 gigs. 

Not implementing a 2GB fix is a common problem on not so professional recorders.
If M-Audio is serious they will implement a solution. It is not trivial but ot so hard either to implement.

[John Kelly]

If this is all about the 2 gig limit you really need to relax.  There were never any advertisements regarding the way the MT would handle files over 2 gigs. 

Not implementing a 2GB fix is a common problem on not so professional recorders.
If M-Audio is serious they will implement a solution. It is not trivial but ot so hard either to implement.

And they have said on numerous occasions that they're working on it.

[svenkid]

I run my mt on the 1.5 firmware 16/44.1 spdif, and Im loving it, but havnt been able to run it alone, I still need the dat tape rolling just to let my nerves stable out

[pfife]

:grouphug:

[pfife]

Nick, M1 doesn't do 24 bit so I guess you mean for 16 bit recordings you like the M1 A/D better. Does the MT dither down to 16 bits? If so, I would think that's an advantage over the M1.

Glad to hear the MT does 24/96 line in no prob.

Exactly. At 16 bit I *slightly* prefer the M1, but obviously having 24 bit capability gives the advantage to the Microtrack.

Hmm, just checked m-audio's website and given the S/N ratio of 98 dB, seems like running 24 bit analog in on the MT offers almost no advantage to 16 bit.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_gb/MicroTrack2496-focus.html

Sorry for straying off topic...

Is this true?  Intriguing...  Would you elaborate the reasoning?  Is it because you'd just be getting more bits of noise?

[udovdh]

If this is all about the 2 gig limit you really need to relax.  There were never any advertisements regarding the way the MT would handle files over 2 gigs. 

Not implementing a 2GB fix is a common problem on not so professional recorders.
If M-Audio is serious they will implement a solution. It is not trivial but ot so hard either to implement.

And they have said on numerous occasions that they're working on it.

Maybe it is taking a bit long for this essential feauture to be implemented.
For a 24/96 device it is nothing more but logical to support auto-open after 2GB has been recorded.
Concerts run easily over 1 hour.
Calling firmware 'beta' may indicate a lack of internal testing capabilities. I don't mind that since it can keep the price low. On the other hand feedback should be responded to, especially in this case, and I guess the 2GB issue has been raised often enough, but maybe we need to mention i even more?

After the 2GB there is a lot of other things people might want, e.g. support for the limiter that is available in the ADC...

[Ed.]

i think the fact that they've said they're working on the 2gb limit, probably means they're working on it.  for the most part, i'd assume if they didn't have plans on working on it, they'd probably let us know by saying "we have no plans of fixing that at them moment" - i don't think an online petition of countless angry emails sent to them everyday will change anything.

patience is a virtue.

i don't see why some people feel that m-audio owes them the 2gb split, m-audio owes you nothing, if you don't want an mt, don't buy one.  i honestly think that tapers make up a small percentage of people buying this, and most people aren't using it to tape concerts.  we should be happy that m-audio has done this much for us.  maybe we should thank them for what they've done rather then send them hate mail for the things they haven't worked out yet.

[hydrobud]

patience is a virtue.

  we should be happy that m-audio has done this much for us.  maybe we should thank them for what they've done rather then send them hate mail for the things they haven't worked out yet.

DITTO !!!    +T

[Nick Graham]

Nick, M1 doesn't do 24 bit so I guess you mean for 16 bit recordings you like the M1 A/D better. Does the MT dither down to 16 bits? If so, I would think that's an advantage over the M1.

Glad to hear the MT does 24/96 line in no prob.

Exactly. At 16 bit I *slightly* prefer the M1, but obviously having 24 bit capability gives the advantage to the Microtrack.

Hmm, just checked m-audio's website and given the S/N ratio of 98 dB, seems like running 24 bit analog in on the MT offers almost no advantage to 16 bit.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_gb/MicroTrack2496-focus.html

Sorry for straying off topic...

Is this true?  Intriguing...  Would you elaborate the reasoning?  Is it because you'd just be getting more bits of noise?

As a standard, you should have a S/N ratio of at least 6dB ber each bit. A S/N ratio of 96 would be ideal for 16 bit, where as a S/N ratio of 144 or higher is needed for 24 bit.

Basically running analog in you increase the noisefloor of the MT at 24 bit. Have I found it to be problematic or overly noisy? - not in the least.

[sygdwm]

As a standard, you should have a S/N ratio of at least 6dB ber each bit. A S/N ratio of 96 would be ideal for 16 bit, where as a S/N ratio of 144 or higher is needed for 24 bit.

what recorder has a range that high? the r1, r4, 671, nagra V are all under 100db. the 722/44 is the only one i can find higher than 100db. hence, the price i guess.

[L Ron Hoover]

New firmware worked great for me at Phil and Friends Sunday night. (M300>V3>MT@24/48) I connected everything, powered up the V3 then MT. It showed I had   ~ 1hr50min. File saved and powered down at setbreak. Powered V3 back up, powered MT, and plugged USB powerpack in. (just to be sure-battery said just under half) All worked well second set too.


Am I happy?





Shit yes!!!!!

[BC]

New firmware worked great for me at Phil and Friends Sunday night. (M300>V3>MT@24/48) I connected everything, powered up the V3 then MT. It showed I had   ~ 1hr50min. File saved and powered down at setbreak. Powered V3 back up, powered MT, and plugged USB powerpack in. (just to be sure-battery said just under half) All worked well second set too.

sweet!     

Just wondering, what kind of CF are you using? No glitches/white noise in the recording?? (yes, I am still kinda paranoid about running this thing without backup for important shows    )

[Ed.]

New firmware worked great for me at Phil and Friends Sunday night. (M300>V3>MT@24/48) I connected everything, powered up the V3 then MT. It showed I had   ~ 1hr50min. File saved and powered down at setbreak. Powered V3 back up, powered MT, and plugged USB powerpack in. (just to be sure-battery said just under half) All worked well second set too.

+t for the tip, my first run with the mt will be saturday night, i'm going to follow these instructions exactly.

[L Ron Hoover]

Kingston 4GB. I didn't hear any glitches, or white noise while splitting tracks last night.

[ghibliss]

For those of you that wish to record with 144 db of dynamic range you simply need to use the spdif input and use an outboard processor with 24 bit capability.  By bypassing the mic preamplifier stasge of the Microtrack recorder you can derive excellent quality recordings with a very reasonably priced device.  I am using the Core-Sound Mic 2496 whichis very small, battery operated and provides great sound quality to the MT 24/96.  I have had no problems recently using the latest firmware provided by M-Audio.  Yes there are a few minor issues which they need to still address but I would say that given the fact that this product is now only on the market about 60 days they have made huge strides forward in fixing the major issues reported.  The 2 GB file size issue and other minor items will be addressed in forthcoming releases and then we will really have an amazing little recorder!!

I can think of no other product which comes even close to offering the features and performance that this piece provides for both the price it is sold at as well as the size package it is provided in.  The fact that you can have a stealth recording device that fits in your shirt pocket is pretty amazing when you can add a digital in (spdif) and get the quality sound that it offers.

To those that are moaning and groaning on the make or break features this must have I would suggest you are being hypercritical of this product prematurely.  Name any other product out there regardless of price that does what the MT 24/96 does that is even close to being similar in size!  I would love to have a 722 as well but this is hardly a stealth designed device and as long as one is using an external processor for their mic preamplifier/ A/D convertor I doubt that one will ever hear any difference between the two products since the mic preamplifier is not being used at all in the MT24/96 in this configuration.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Len?

[mmedley.]

Len?

  It's gotta be.

[frankho]

By bypassing the mic preamplifier stasge of the Microtrack recorder you can derive excellent quality recordings with a very reasonably priced device.  I am using the Core-Sound Mic 2496 whichis very small, battery operated and provides great sound quality to the MT 24/96.

Hi,

I'm totally new to audio and recording. Just about to purchase my first gears to record nature sounds, such as bird songs etc., mostly at remote site with long hiking. So portable and battery-powered is must. I already got a Senn ME-66, and ordered MT. After reading (almost)all posts regarding MT, I still have no definite conclusion. Some suggest this unit is quiet enough, but more suggest its preamp is too noisy for this type of recording. So I'm considering an outboard preamp and maybe /ADC to fit in between. I was considering Mic2496 too but no headphone monitoring(does it?) basically ruled it out, because MT also has no monitoring when SPDIF in? It's not just the level things, but also shotgun aiming. One question here, does MT's internal preamp kick in when line in? Read somewhere MT's internal AD is not bad, if I use a good analog pream > MT line in, will give good result(for this type of recording)? Again, size, weight, battery-powered is very important(and price of course, SD MixPre probably my upper limit). Sorry for thes newbie question... ^_^

[it-goes-to-eleven]

With a good preamp, the MT should work very well for nature recording.  But the MT preamp is noisy when adding gain and you'll want to use the lowest gain setting.  Based on the info on the core-sounds site, the mic2496 isn't well suited for quiet sources.  SD's 722 preamp is very quiet at high gain. I haven't used an SD mixpre but if it is similar, I think it would be good for this application.   If you want to record for longer periods of time or over weekend camping trips, etc, consider a disk based recorder like a 20 or 40GB jb3.  But you should probably start a new thread rather than continuing this discussion here.

[Kyle]

As a standard, you should have a S/N ratio of at least 6dB ber each bit. A S/N ratio of 96 would be ideal for 16 bit, where as a S/N ratio of 144 or higher is needed for 24 bit.

what recorder has a range that high? the r1, r4, 671, nagra V are all under 100db. the 722/44 is the only one i can find higher than 100db. hence, the price i guess.

This is not a recorder, but the Sonic AD2K (Benchmakr 2402) has a s/n or 117db, while the new Benchmark ADC1 has a s/n of 120db. I know those are not recorders, just a/d stages. As far as I can tell right now, if you want that high s/n, you have to run an outboard a/d.

I have to keep reminding myself that specs are just numbers. How it sounds is most important (but I really love all that dynamic range )



edit: Mytek ADC192 - dynamic range of 123db! 

[Chris K]

Hi,

I'm totally new to audio and recording. Just about to purchase my first gears to record nature sounds, such as bird songs etc., mostly at remote site with long hiking. So portable and battery-powered is must. I already got a Senn ME-66, and ordered MT. After reading (almost)all posts regarding MT, I still have no definite conclusion. Some suggest this unit is quiet enough, but more suggest its preamp is too noisy for this type of recording. So I'm considering an outboard preamp and maybe /ADC to fit in between. I was considering Mic2496 too but no headphone monitoring(does it?) basically ruled it out, because MT also has no monitoring when SPDIF in? It's not just the level things, but also shotgun aiming. One question here, does MT's internal preamp kick in when line in? Read somewhere MT's internal AD is not bad, if I use a good analog pream > MT line in, will give good result(for this type of recording)? Again, size, weight, battery-powered is very important(and price of course, SD MixPre probably my upper limit). Sorry for thes newbie question... ^_^

i would get a sound devices mp-2 or mixpre which are basically the same. good gain stage, works on AA batteries, portable and light and can run line into the mt2496. it also has a very good headphone amp. the mp-2 can be had for a reasonable price.

good luck.

[jcrab66]

Len?

  It's gotta be.

hehehehehehehehehe

[frankho]

Sorry for being off topic of this thread. Posted here just because ghibliss mentioned Mic2496, which I was considering. Hopefully my question is or nearly concluded.

With a good preamp, the MT should work very well for nature recording.  But the MT preamp is noisy when adding gain and you'll want to use the lowest gain setting.  Based on the info on the core-sounds site, the mic2496 isn't well suited for quiet sources...

i would get a sound devices mp-2 or mixpre which are basically the same. good gain stage, works on AA batteries, portable and light and can run line into the mt2496. it also has a very good headphone amp. the mp-2 can be had for a reasonable price.

Thanks for you tips and advices. That almost concluded I'm going to get a SD MP2 or MixPre. One last question: does line in bypass the internal preamp? Freelunch, while you say using the lowest gain setting does that mean always keep the rec level full left, and adjust the gain from the ext preamp?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

One last question: does line in bypass the internal preamp? Freelunch, while you say using the lowest gain setting does that mean always keep the rec level full left, and adjust the gain from the ext preamp?

That's exactly it - you would use line in mode on the 1/4" inputs.  The MT isn't true line in because it always adds a min of 14 dB of gain.  Line in does not bypass the internal pre.

[John Kelly]

Which also means you'll still encounter the high noise floor, which could be a problem for quiet sounds.

[John Kelly]

I haven't seen the actual diagrams of it all, but I would assume that going line in DOES bypass the mic preamp.  However, if it adds 14dB of gain, it looks like the line input may be expecting a consumer level (-10dB) and automatically bumping it up to pro level (+4dB). 

Of course it is entirely possible that the MT is just using the mic pre to do that as well, but most devices don't.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I haven't seen the actual diagrams of it all, but I would assume that going line in DOES bypass the mic preamp.

I'm fairly sure it hits the preamp. The level buttons still add the same gain as the other switch settings and the noise floor suggests it is going through the same pre.

However, if it adds 14dB of gain, it looks like the line input may be expecting a consumer level (-10dB) and automatically bumping it up to pro level (+4dB). 

I don't follow.  Send it -10db and it WILL clip.  It cannot handle a consumer level line signal. I don't expect them to fix that.  It would be nice if they would "clarify" it.  Have they documented the amount of gain added by each switch position yet?

[John Kelly]

I haven't seen the actual diagrams of it all, but I would assume that going line in DOES bypass the mic preamp.

I'm fairly sure it hits the preamp. The level buttons still add the same gain as the other switch settings and the noise floor suggests it is going through the same pre.

Cool.  I hadn't run it line in but one time so I never did a lot of testing.

However, if it adds 14dB of gain, it looks like the line input may be expecting a consumer level (-10dB) and automatically bumping it up to pro level (+4dB). 

I don't follow.  Send it -10db and it WILL clip.  It cannot handle a consumer level line signal. I don't expect them to fix that.  It would be nice if they would "clarify" it.  Have they documented the amount of gain added by each switch position yet?

-10 is the standard consumer line level signal - +4 is the standard pro level signal.  I'm not sure how else to explain it.  Under normal circumstances it *should* take a consumer level signal just fine, however I don't think there are many pieces of gear we use that output a consumer level signal.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

In my testing, sending it a -10 signal will result in severe clipping.

[John Kelly]

In my testing, sending it a -10 signal will result in severe clipping.

Yes, but a -10 signal sent over a pro line level is a little different than a -10 signal sent over a consumer line level.  There is a difference.

[cpatch]

Could somebody post brief noise floor tests from both the 1/8" and 1/4" inputs with nothing plugged in, the levels all the way up, and no gain boosts? MP3 44/320 is fine. Thanks.

Craig

[plucks]

no problems last nite 24/48!!

[udovdh]

Yes, but a -10 signal sent over a pro line level is a little different than a -10 signal sent over a consumer line level.  There is a difference.

But the point is.. It *cannot* handle a line level signal, whether consumer or pro.

Did anyone test and/or verify this statement?
If the MT cannot handle line-in, doesthis contradict the statement on their site saying it can?

1/4" Mic/Line Inputs
Maximum Input Level:   +4.3dBu, balanced; +2.1dBV, unbalanced

If so: Why not write to M-Audio?

[Ed.]

did anyone notice if the channel swapping thing was fixed in this update.  was that ever an issue?  i think i can hear it in my recording, but never really tested the theory to be able to tell easily.

[Scooter]

As far as I can tell, no, it hasn't.  I ran it on Fri, and the chans were swapped...

[SonicSound]

Yes it still flips chanels. When I was recording this weekend m/s, I had configured backwards and was running mid on the right channel.
Serendipitously when I went home to swap channels and mixdown, the channels were already swaped.

[Ed.]

alright, i'm sure its swapped then, i gotta fix that.  thanks guys.

[Chris K]

Yes it still flips chanels. When I was recording this weekend m/s, I had configured backwards and was running mid on the right channel.
Serendipitously when I went home to swap channels and mixdown, the channels were already swaped.

so when recorded it flips the track, and then when you download it it flips back? am i reading this right? if so then what is the issue other than playback on the mt, which suxs for playback imo

[Craig T]

no, he had his mics plugged into the preamp backwards (he ran L=side R=mid, should have been L=mid R=side).  he thought he was going to have to swap channels prior to the m/s>stereo mixdown, but since the MT swapped the channels it was ok.  did you follow that?

[Chris K]

gotcha...probably the one time user error worked to his advantage 

[SonicSound]

Forget M/S .... Belly Blumlein
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=55241.msg722112#msg722112

[koops]

Hey people, thought I'd add to this lucrative chat by telling my woes of the Microtrack (and to introduce myself)...

Firstly, I love it: it's the cheap ($240 on E-Bay), ultra lightweight, very portable and sounds amazing - I don't care if it's not 24 bit it sounds fine to me.

Secondly, I agree with all the niggles with usability: dodgy nav button, it creaks when squeazed, and the software interface can be cumbersome to use at first.  and I don't think anybody has mentioned the fact that CF media doesn't easily guide itself to slot into the side of the microtrack, and I've found myself pulling it in and out three or four times just to find the correct projectory.

However, my biggest concern was with the fact that my 2GB CF media wasn't recognized by the device, however it was formatted as advised by the M-Audio knowledge base... it also worked fine through several standard card readers.  The CF card I was using was an Integral i-Pro 2GB Ultra High Speed (100x) CF Card.  Having spent almost £90 on this card, I was a little disappointed so I contacted M-Audio to ask what could be wrong.  Just to clarify, I have updated to firmware v1.2 and the device seems to work fine with the accompanying Kodak 64Mb media.

When I heard back from technical support, they provided me with a list of tried and tested CF cards which I thought should be wider-known as I'd certainly have found this info useful when considering an upgrade to the rather stingy 64Mb card.  I have copied thier response word-for-word below...

"here is a list of tested cards:
   *Tested and approved CF cards for the MicroTrack:

Hitachi Microdrive 2GB, 4GB, 6GB
Seagate 5GB drive ("microdrive" type)
Transcend 4GB CF, 45x
Corsair 4GB CF (47-00057)
Lexar 1GB CF Professional 80x
SanDisk 1GB CF
JAMedia 1GB CF
Toshiba 512MB CF
JAMedia 256MB CF
SimpleTech 128MB CF
Kodak 64MB CF

Kingston Elite Series

CF/1024-S 1 GB Compact Flash Card (SLC) (50x)
CF/2GB-S 2 GB Compact Flash Card (SLC) (50x)
CF/4GB-S 4 GB Compact Flash Card (SLC) (45x)

Kingston Standard Series

CF/128 128MB Compact Flash Card
CF/256 256MB Compact Flash Card
CF/512 512MB Compact Flash Card
CF/1024 1024MB Compact Flash Card

Kingston Elite Series

CF/1024-S 1 GB Compact Flash Card (SLC) (50x)
CF/2GB-S 2 GB Compact Flash Card (SLC) (50x)
CF/4GB-S 4 GB Compact Flash Card (SLC) (45x)

Kingston Standard Series

CF/128 128MB Compact Flash Card
CF/256 256MB Compact Flash Card
CF/512 512MB Compact Flash Card
CF/1024 1024MB Compact Flash Card"

To conclude my story, I have exchanged my 'bad' card for an equivalent sized Kingston Elite series, and should recieve it anyday now.

I hope this post helps anyone out there looking to upgrade their storage space...

Cheers, Chris.

[silentmark]

- I don't care if it's not 24 bit it sounds fine to me.

Ummmm why would you think it is not 24bit ?

[alienbobz]

Has anyone been able to figure out a true workaround with this time remaining issue? I ran both the JB3 and MT (digi-in, 24/48) on Saturday. MT showed about 1:46 when I started in for the first set. First set ran about 1 hour. Powered down the MT during the set break, and the next file had the remaining 46 minutes. Part of one of the songs is cut. Thing that is pissing me off right now is that the MT seems to sound a lot clearer than the JB3 (for some reason the JB3 seems to have more crowd noise during songs). Would like to figure this issue out for my next show or I may just leave the MT until they fix this. Let me know.

[chitaper]

Has anyone been able to figure out a true workaround with this time remaining issue? I ran both the JB3 and MT (digi-in, 24/48) on Saturday. MT showed about 1:46 when I started in for the first set. First set ran about 1 hour. Powered down the MT during the set break, and the next file had the remaining 46 minutes. Part of one of the songs is cut. Thing that is pissing me off right now is that the MT seems to sound a lot clearer than the JB3 (for some reason the JB3 seems to have more crowd noise during songs). Would like to figure this issue out for my next show or I may just leave the MT until they fix this. Let me know.

On the 1.15 firmware you could try starting a new file (w/o rebooting), it would often show the correct time afterwards. Haven't tried this on 1.2 though.

[alienbobz]

Yeah I have unfortunately upgraded to the new firmware .

[Ed.]

i have this problem as well, my idea was to shut the mt off, eject the card, restart the mt, and then insert the card again.  however, i haven't had a chance to test the theory yet.  i hope to do it sometime this week.  i'm hoping that will reset the time, but its hard to say.

[koops]

- I don't care if it's not 24 bit it sounds fine to me.

Ummmm why would you think it is not 24bit ?

If you'd done your homework you should know...

http://home.rustradio.org/~rdvdijk/microtrack/index-old.html

[Ed.]

i guess i still don't get what you're getting at, the unit records 24bit.

[cybermansrev]

i guess i still don't get what you're getting at, the unit records 24bit.

If I'm understanding the link correctly http://home.rustradio.org/~rdvdijk/microtrack/index-old.html I think the point is whilst the microtrack is recording 24bit, due to the noise floor there's really only 18 bit of "good" data to use.

The tests on that page do look very odd, particularly the left channel "wavering" it would be interesting to run the same test on other peoples MT's to see if it's just a problem with the one they tested.

[Ed.]

fair enuf, but that was only done thru the analog in, digi in is clean, although i don't have any graphs to back up that accusation.

[silentmark]

- I don't care if it's not 24 bit it sounds fine to me.

Ummmm why would you think it is not 24bit ?

If you'd done your homework you should know...


http://home.rustradio.org/~rdvdijk/microtrack/index-old.html

Ummmmm, right back at cha ...

[silentmark]

i guess i still don't get what you're getting at, the unit records 24bit.

If I'm understanding the link correctly http://home.rustradio.org/~rdvdijk/microtrack/index-old.html I think the point is whilst the microtrack is recording 24bit, due to the noise floor there's really only 18 bit of "good" data to use.

The tests on that page do look very odd, particularly the left channel "wavering" it would be interesting to run the same test on other peoples MT's to see if it's just a problem with the one they tested.

I believe these are old tests done when the MT first came out ... If you do your 'homework' and search this site abit, you'll find folks recording at 24 bit. If I am wrong, please provide me (and others) with more documentation showing this.

[John Kelly]

- I don't care if it's not 24 bit it sounds fine to me.

Ummmm why would you think it is not 24bit ?

If you'd done your homework you should know...

http://home.rustradio.org/~rdvdijk/microtrack/index-old.html

Great link!  Very interesting results as well.  Looks like running analog in on 24 bit may be pointless.

[cybermansrev]

I believe these are old tests done when the MT first came out ... If you do your 'homework' and search this site abit, you'll find folks recording at 24 bit. If I am wrong, please provide me (and others) with more documentation showing this.

My post was aiming to try and explain to Ed what I thought koops was alluding to with his link.

[John Kelly]

I believe these are old tests done when the MT first came out ... If you do your 'homework' and search this site abit, you'll find folks recording at 24 bit. If I am wrong, please provide me (and others) with more documentation showing this.

My post was aiming to try and explain to Ed what I thought koops was alluding to with his link. Although I must admit I haven't seen any of the "new tests" you refer to showing a lower noise level from line input, could you kindly point them out?
I would never be a rude as to suggest anyone does their "homework" 

I could be wrong, but I don't think a new firmware could change the noise floor of a preamp - you'd have to swap out the preamp to do that.

[silentmark]

I believe these are old tests done when the MT first came out ... If you do your 'homework' and search this site abit, you'll find folks recording at 24 bit. If I am wrong, please provide me (and others) with more documentation showing this.

My post was aiming to try and explain to Ed what I thought koops was alluding to with his link. Although I must admit I haven't seen any of the "new tests" you refer to showing a lower noise level from line input, could you kindly point them out?
I would never be as rude as to suggest anyone does their "homework" 

My post was not directed at you cyberman, but koops, who suggested I do my homework. Sorry for the confusion ...

[cybermansrev]

I could be wrong, but I don't think a new firmware could change the noise floor of a preamp - you'd have to swap out the preamp to do that.

I must say I was thinking the same thing, especially since running analog in according to many on here seems to have ~13db of gain. Suggesting even "line in" is going via the preamp, however M-Audio did flip the LMH switch via firmware so maybe it's possible to at least erradicate the preamp noise and use an external preamp.

[koops]

By posting to this forum my intention was not to get caught up in an arguement about the lack of 24 bit recording (except via digi-in), but to provide the users of this forum with a list of compatible CF cards as given directly from the horses mouth, I'm sorry if I offended anybody by doing this.

If however you are interested in the link I supplied about the noise floor analysis, there is an updated page on that very website with more results (but still omitting digi-in):

http://home.rustradio.org/~rdvdijk/microtrack/

I agree it would be nice to have more results from different units, as that comb-filtering effect does appear to be rather odd.  Having done several of my own tests, I concluded similar results - that analogue recording is only capable of a dynamic range of around 96 dB (16 bit), but I'm not entirely skilled in the art of spectral analysis. 

As I stated in my initial post; I don't care if it's not 24 bit, it sounds great to me! 

Has anyone seen this rather cheesy, but cool, vid yet?..

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=media.video&ID=032c69c4299f8d8017566448f7bed0b4

Funny how it doesn't show him getting frustrated with the clunky nav wheel!

[Ed.]

i don't think you offended, no need to worry.  I was just a bit confused there at first, but the digi in on the thing is all i really care about.

as for the vid, thats new to me, and its hilarious!

[Brian Skalinder]

By posting to this forum my intention was not to get caught up in an arguement about the lack of 24 bit recording (except via digi-in)

Well, to be fair - and thanks to Boogie and others for highlighting this some time ago - I don't know of an external portable pre/ADC used by tapers that provides a full 24-bit digital stream, since that would require 144dB of dynamic range.  Commonly used taper gear, (A) = A-weighted:

123 dB (A)  | Mytek Stereo192 ADC
120 dB (A)  | Benchmark ADC1
117 dB (A)  | Benchmark 2402 (Sonic AD2K+)
114 dB (A)  | Sound Devices 722/744
110 dB (A)  | Grace Design Lunatec V3
108 dB (A)  | M-Audio Firewire 410
105 dB      | Mini-Me
100 dB      | Fostex FR-2
 98 dB (A)  | M-Audio MicroTrack
 94 dB      | Marantz PMD-671
  ?         | Tascam HD-P2
unpublished | Edirol UA-5
unpublished | Edirol R-1
unpublished | Edirol R-4
unpublished | Tascam DV-RA1000

And koops - you'll get used to threads rambling swiftly off-topic if you hang around for a while. 

Edit: to update list per replies with gear I left out.

[JasonSobel]

Well, to be fair - and thanks to Boogie and others for highlighting this some time ago - I don't know of an external portable pre/ADC used by tapers that provides a full 24-bit digital stream, since that would require 144dB of dynamic range

that statement is a bit mis-leading, as all "24 bit gear" (i.e. the mytek, the V3, the Mini-Me, etc, etc..) does output a "full 24-bit digital stream"  the question is whether or not all the bits contain useful information, or are just encoding the noise from the analog gear in front of it, and therefore taking advantage of the full capability of 24 bit encoding.  regardless of the analog noise of a pre-amp or A/D converter, a 24-bit signal is being transmitted and recorded.

[udovdh]

did anyone see this review for the noise analysis?

http://www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm#

[bconnolly]

Has anyone seen this rather cheesy, but cool, vid yet?..

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=media.video&ID=032c69c4299f8d8017566448f7bed0b4

Funny how it doesn't show him getting frustrated with the clunky nav wheel!

If I were him, I'd be more concerned with getting frustrated with my fake dread locks.  Seriously, those can't be real.

[Brian Skalinder]

that statement is a bit mis-leading [snip]

Good clarification, Jason, thanks. 

[Nick Graham]

By posting to this forum my intention was not to get caught up in an arguement about the lack of 24 bit recording (except via digi-in)

Well, to be fair - and thanks to Boogie and others for highlighting this some time ago - I don't know of an external portable pre/ADC used by tapers that provides a full 24-bit digital stream, since that would require 144dB of dynamic range. 

Exactly. I first brought up the 144dB issue 3 or 4 pages back, and someone pointed out that even the $8000 Nagra V only has 96dB of dynamic range, so running analog into it is even more "pointless" than with the Microtrack.

[John Kelly]

By posting to this forum my intention was not to get caught up in an arguement about the lack of 24 bit recording (except via digi-in)

Well, to be fair - and thanks to Boogie and others for highlighting this some time ago - I don't know of an external portable pre/ADC used by tapers that provides a full 24-bit digital stream, since that would require 144dB of dynamic range. 

Exactly. I first brought up the 144dB issue 3 or 4 pages back, and someone pointed out that even the $8000 Nagra V only has 96dB of dynamic range, so running analog into it is even more "pointless" than with the Microtrack.

It's not pointless to run analog in, it'd just be pointless to record it at 24bit.  Or rather, if you record at 24 bit, you'll have to run it like you would a 16 bit signal (i.e. getting as close to 0 as you can get), as running lower would bring the noise floor closer to the signal.

[Rick]

By posting to this forum my intention was not to get caught up in an arguement about the lack of 24 bit recording (except via digi-in)

Well, to be fair - and thanks to Boogie and others for highlighting this some time ago - I don't know of an external portable pre/ADC used by tapers that provides a full 24-bit digital stream, since that would require 144dB of dynamic range.  Commonly used taper gear, (A) = A-weighted:

123 dB (A)  | Mytek Stereo192 ADC
110 dB (A)  | V3
108 dB (A)  | M-Audio Firewire 410
105 dB      | Mini-Me
100 dB      | Fostex FR-2
 98 dB (A)  | M-Audio MicroTrack
 94 dB      | Marantz PMD-671
  ?         | Tascam HD-P2
unpublished | Edirol UA-5
unpublished | Edirol R-1
unpublished | Edirol R-4
unpublished | Tascam DV-RA1000

And koops - you'll get used to threads rambling swiftly off-topic if you hang around for a while. 

What about the 722/744? I think its 114 dB

[it-goes-to-eleven]

123 dB (A)  | Mytek Stereo192 ADC
114 dB (A)  | SD 722
110 dB (A)  | V3
108 dB (A)  | M-Audio Firewire 410
105 dB      | Mini-Me
100 dB      | Fostex FR-2
 98 dB (A)  | M-Audio MicroTrack
 94 dB      | Marantz PMD-671
  ?         | Tascam HD-P2
unpublished | Edirol UA-5
unpublished | Edirol R-1
unpublished | Edirol R-4
unpublished | Tascam DV-RA1000

Added the 722 to the above for completeness and fluffing..

Talk to Doug (and many others) and they will probably tell you that great specs don't necessarily reflect good audio quality.  In many cases, excessive negative feedback is used to reduce noise at the expense of good sound quality.

Case in point, there are quite a number of 722 owners who insist on fronting the 722 with a V2 or V3. However, even the V3 users seem to prefer using the 722's A/D. I expect that the "specs" on that combination aren't as good.

As far as measuring these devices ourselves, I imagine that doing these tests with no load on the input is incorrect. There should probably be a loading resistor to simulate a mic, etc (and probably another one to simulate 48v load).

While we assail the MT, it would be interesting to see the same data on the R-1 in 24 and 16 bit mode, etc.  For that matter, how about a 148>modsbm?  148>AD1000? Etc.

I'll still take noisy 24 bit over noisy 16 bit because there is more detail in the portion of interest.

[Nick Graham]

I'll still take noisy 24 bit over noisy 16 bit because there is more detail in the portion of interest.

Ditto.

Thanks for saying what I've been trying to. I'll continue to run 24 bit on the Microtrack, enjoy the DVD-As I make, and not worry about specs.

[zowie]

Isn't the question kind of academic?  If you've got good levels, what do you need the extra 15 db for anyway.  At least for PA recording.

Many of the very best recordings ever made like Living Stereos were done on electronics and tape machines that only had, at best, 80 db of dynamic range.  Your tapes should only sound half as good as those.

[Kyle]

By posting to this forum my intention was not to get caught up in an arguement about the lack of 24 bit recording (except via digi-in)

Well, to be fair - and thanks to Boogie and others for highlighting this some time ago - I don't know of an external portable pre/ADC used by tapers that provides a full 24-bit digital stream, since that would require 144dB of dynamic range.  Commonly used taper gear, (A) = A-weighted:

123 dB (A)  | Mytek Stereo192 ADC
110 dB (A)  | V3
108 dB (A)  | M-Audio Firewire 410
105 dB      | Mini-Me
100 dB      | Fostex FR-2
 98 dB (A)  | M-Audio MicroTrack
 94 dB      | Marantz PMD-671
  ?         | Tascam HD-P2
unpublished | Edirol UA-5
unpublished | Edirol R-1
unpublished | Edirol R-4
unpublished | Tascam DV-RA1000

And koops - you'll get used to threads rambling swiftly off-topic if you hang around for a while. 

add:

Benchmark 2402 (Sonic AD2K+) 117 (A)
Benchmark ADC1                      120 (A)

The stand-alone unit we all dream of just does not exist yet. If you want to at least approach the dynamic range offered by 24bit recording you must run an outboard preamp/adc (or get a 722/744t). I wish there was another option, because all of the SLAs I am carting around are getting heavy -  but until there is.....I want the one box solution with a Grace Pre and a Benchmark adc (with 144db of dynamic range ) but.....


someday - V4 anyone


edit: I just do not get this. The Marantz PMD671, for example, has a s/n of 94db. That is the same as my Sony PCM-R500. The Marantz is a 24bit recorder. I know that it is simply a reworked 16bit recorder but....wtf?

This bugs me - technology should be moving forward - the Marantz is a 'professional' device - they really need to get those numbers up - I am sure that it sounds great - I just do not think that is everything. Maybe I am expecting too much, or maybe I am missing something???

[SvenG]

I just bought the MT last week.

Should I install the most recent beta update to the firmware--or both (with the oldest first?).

I haven't been able to use it yet--every time I turn it on I get "Booting Firmware" and have to hold power and record down together to get it to shut off.

Frustrating...

[cpatch]

1.2.0 is a full install...you don't have to install the previous update.

The "Booting Firmware" message is exactly what you should get when you first turn on the unit. Give it 30 seconds or so and it should switch to the menus. If you don't get the menus after at least a minute then you have a defective unit and need to to exchange it. (If you can't get to the menus you can't upgrade the firmware.)

Craig

[jtessier]

SvenG:

If you are feeding the Microtrack power when booting, it will keep it from booting into full play / record mode. If you want to keep power applied, once it pauses just press the del button once to cause it to finish the boot. Also, the force power down key sequence is simply holding the powerbutton down for something like 10 or 12 seconds. You don't need to hold down the rec (or any other) button(s).

Good luck with your new toy.

John

[Ed.]

Last week I emailed M-Audio's tech support concerning the problem with microdrives and the time remaining...

From: Ed Buckel [mailto:ed@thefuzz.net]
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 7:08 AM
To: techsupt@m-audio.com
Subject: Microtrack 24/96

 

Hello, first of all, I'd like to commend you for a great product and your continuing support for it.  I'm looking forward to more firmware updates that will make this device really preform.  I'm sure you're already aware about the 2gb issue and the 24/96 on the digi in.  I think once you guys get those issues squared away you're going to make a great product even better.

However, I'd like to point out something that you might not be aware of.  I've noticed an issue with the time remaining when recording via digi in onto a microdrive.  I guess the easiest way to explain the problem, is just to explain what I was doing when I noticed it.  I was recording via the s/pdif in at 24/44.1khz from a Grace Lunatec V3.  I'm using a Hitachi 6gb Microdrive for my recording.  When I start the device up and go to maximum record time available, it shows the proper time available.  When I'm recording it shows the proper time remaining from the 2gb cut time.  However, if I stop recording and start a new one, instead of restting the remaining time available, it continues to count down from the point where it stopped the previous time, instead of resetting the remaining time.  For instance, if I make a recording that takes up all but 20 minutes until I reach the 2gb cut time, when I stop the unit and go to start recording again, instead of refreshing the remaining time for another 2gb's it shows I only have 20 minutes left.  In order to get another 2gb's worth, I need to record a full 2gb's the first time through. (I hope that makes sense).  This can be incredibly difficult if the opening band plays for an hour and then the headliner plans to play a over an hour.  There's no way possible to work around the issue without losing a portion of the show from the time it takes to start another file recording.

Hopefully from that explanation you understand what I'm talking about.  From what I've heard, this only seems to be happening with the microdrives.  I think if the 2gb issue was fixed, where after 2gb's the device started recording another file seemlessly, the problem might not be so drastic.  I'd just have the show broken apart in pieces, but that could easily be fixed in post.  However, even with the 2gb fix, I think this might qualify as a big enough problem to look into, since I'm assuming it shouldn't be doing this.

Thanks again for a great product.  I look forward to using for years to come.

Ed Buckel

and then this is the reply I received today...

Hello, right now we are working on a firmware update that may address your issue. If you like, there is a beta version firmware revision available on our website, but it will not address all the issues that the full version addresses.

The firmware update for the MicroTrack can be found here:

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers

You can also try the two different reset procedures available for the MicroTrack. First, hold down power and delete for a few seconds and the Microtrack should turn itself off. Then turn the Microtrack back on (whether it will boot up all the way or not) and hold power and menu down for a few seconds until it turns off the unit. Boot up Microtrack and it should work.

Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

JS

Email Support Specialist

After I saw this I was excited, thinking there was another beta firmware update, but nothing.  However, it looks like they're working on fixing the problems.

[sickrick43]

Hello, right now we are working on a firmware update that may address your issue. If you like, there is a beta version firmware revision available on our website, but it will not address all the issues that the full version addresses.

The firmware update for the MicroTrack can be found here:

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers

You can also try the two different reset procedures available for the MicroTrack. First, hold down power and delete for a few seconds and the Microtrack should turn itself off. Then turn the Microtrack back on (whether it will boot up all the way or not) and hold power and menu down for a few seconds until it turns off the unit. Boot up Microtrack and it should work.

Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

JS

Email Support Specialist

After I saw this I was excited, thinking there was another beta firmware update, but nothing.  However, it looks like they're working on fixing the problems.

Interesting though - a HARD RESET procedure that's so-far, undocumented...  We learn something new about these things every day.  I'm taking mine out for the 3 show CodeTalker run this week.  It performed nearly flawlessly last weekend for 2 Brian Stoltz shows.  Currently running the 1.0.2 FW.

Rick

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Good letter, Ed.  That is an interesting new reboot/reset technique.

But otherwise, I think you received a completely generic response to your email.  The *MAY* fix part bothers me.

I think it is time that we engage M-audio for a more formal commitment to resolve the 2GB issue, the channel swap issue and the 24/96 digi issue.  I want to see them *commit* to those fixes, not say that they 'may' fix those issues. If any of those problems seem beyond the capability of the current hardware (and can't be fixed), they should say so.  At this point, it is completely reasonable to ask for estimates on the timeframe for those fixes.  Having purchased beta gear in good faith, it is completely reasonable to expect more than a form letter response at this point.

[Ed.]

i was just happy to hear that they're working on another firmware update.  up with hope and smoking dope!

[John Kelly]

But otherwise, I think you received a completely generic response to your email.  The *MAY* fix part bothers me.

It's called "covering their ass." 

I think it is time that we engage M-audio for a more formal commitment to resolve the 2GB issue, the channel swap issue and the 24/96 digi issue.  I want to see them *commit* to those fixes, not say that they 'may' fix those issues.

HA!

If any of those problems seem beyond the capability of the current hardware (and can't be fixed), they should say so.  At this point, it is completely reasonable to ask for estimates on the timeframe for those fixes. 

When have you EVER seen an electronics company give dates on when something will be fixed/released?  Why would you think M-Audio would be any different?  You can see that they are regularly releasing firmwares, why not just see what the next update brings us?  It's obvious that they know about the issues we're concerned with, why would pressing them further and trying to force them to commit to a timeframe help the cause at all?

Having purchased beta gear in good faith, it is completely reasonable to expect more than a form letter response at this point.

I dunno about you, but I didn't purchase a beta anything.  The only thing beta with this device is the newer firmware that you do not need to install.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I dunno about you, but I didn't purchase a beta anything.  The only thing beta with this device is the newer firmware that you do not need to install.

You're right - the original firmware was more like ALPHA quality, not beta.

The original firmware was garbage and I don't think anyone would dispute that it is the worst of the three versions available.

[jtessier]

The force reset information reported from M-Audio technical support is not quite accurate.  There are two different things here, there's a force power off which as most of you know is holding the power button down for an extended period (about 12 seconds). Then there's a Special Recovery mode which is intended to get the unit booted if the internal firmware/operating system were to ever become corrupted. This is done by applying power to the MicroTrack while holding in the menu button. You will then go to a screen that asks you to insert a rescue disk (in reality you should have already had the rescue disk inserted before you powered on). A 'rescue disk' is any fat32 formatted media with a set of firmware files on it.  The MicroTrack will then attempt to load the firmware / operating system directly off the card instead of out of internal memory.  You can then use the update firmware option in the menus to overwrite the corrupted internal firmware with a fresh copy from the card. Then when the unit reboots hopefully all should be well.

J.T.

[musicsherlock]

perhaps it's a good thing to keep the various or latest firmware on a separate (the included) CF card...as I don't have an alternate reader besides the MT...

[Nick Graham]

The force reset information reported from M-Audio technical support is not quite accurate.  There are two different things here, there's a force power off which as most of you know is holding the power button down for an extended period (about 12 seconds). Then there's a Special Recovery mode which is intended to get the unit booted if the internal firmware/operating system were to ever become corrupted. This is done by applying power to the MicroTrack while holding in the menu button. You will then go to a screen that asks you to insert a rescue disk (in reality you should have already had the rescue disk inserted before you powered on). A 'rescue disk' is any fat32 formatted media with a set of firmware files on it.  The MicroTrack will then attempt to load the firmware / operating system directly off the card instead of out of internal memory.  You can then use the update firmware option in the menus to overwrite the corrupted internal firmware with a fresh copy from the card. Then when the unit reboots hopefully all should be well.

J.T.

I just tried the above (applying power/holding "Menu" - see my problem here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=55741.0) hoping it would work...and nothing happened. Still have no f**king clue what's wrong with mine.

I emailed M-Audio Tech Support explaining my issue, that for whatever reason the unit now appears to be completely dead. They responded that I needed to update the firmware...

HELLO??? Try and make it a little more obvious you didn't read a single word of my email. How can I update the firmware (which had already been done) when the damn thing won't even power up!

[chitaper]

perhaps it's a good thing to keep the various or latest firmware on a separate (the included) CF card...as I don't have an alternate reader besides the MT...

There are many CF card readers for less than $10.

[mmedley.]

The force reset information reported from M-Audio technical support is not quite accurate.  There are two different things here, there's a force power off which as most of you know is holding the power button down for an extended period (about 12 seconds). Then there's a Special Recovery mode which is intended to get the unit booted if the internal firmware/operating system were to ever become corrupted. This is done by applying power to the MicroTrack while holding in the menu button. You will then go to a screen that asks you to insert a rescue disk (in reality you should have already had the rescue disk inserted before you powered on). A 'rescue disk' is any fat32 formatted media with a set of firmware files on it.  The MicroTrack will then attempt to load the firmware / operating system directly off the card instead of out of internal memory.  You can then use the update firmware option in the menus to overwrite the corrupted internal firmware with a fresh copy from the card. Then when the unit reboots hopefully all should be well.

J.T.

I just tried the above (applying power/holding "Menu" - see my problem here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=55741.0) hoping it would work...and nothing happened. Still have no f**king clue what's wrong with mine.

I emailed M-Audio Tech Support explaining my issue, that for whatever reason the unit now appears to be completely dead. They responded that I needed to update the firmware...

HELLO??? Try and make it a little more obvious you didn't read a single word of my email. How can I update the firmware (which had already been done) when the damn thing won't even power up!

There are some phone numbers in the back of the manual. Call their offices and get someone on the phone to help you.

[Ed.]

You can also try the two different reset procedures available for the MicroTrack. First, hold down power and delete for a few seconds and the Microtrack should turn itself off. Then turn the Microtrack back on (whether it will boot up all the way or not) and hold power and menu down for a few seconds until it turns off the unit. Boot up Microtrack and it should work.

For what its worth, I tried that, and it still didn't fix the micro drive problem

[thegreatgumbino]

Anyone heard a tentative release date on the next firmware update?

[Nick Graham]

Anyone heard a tentative release date on the next firmware update?

I wouldn't hold your breath. I'm still waiting (5 days) to get info to return my Microtrack to M-Audio.

[thegreatgumbino]

Anyone heard a tentative release date on the next firmware update?

I wouldn't hold your breath. I'm still waiting (5 days) to get info to return my Microtrack to M-Audio.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Nick.  Didn't you have a couple successful runs with the MT?

I want to make the 24 bit jump, but haven't decided which way to leap yet 

[Ed.]

I dunno, I have faith that there'll be another one coming up soon.  I just hope they fix the 2gb problem by February because I have shows then that the 24bit/2gb thing will definitely come up as an issue.

[thegreatgumbino]

I really want to run 24 bit by 1/21 so I can record the Los Lobos acoustic show.  My playback doesn't support it, but it would be nice to have the recording for future playback.  Can't wait for the show!  It's in an old theater built in 1934 that only holds 535 people 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I can see where doing the split without any sample drop outs is difficult and maybe it will take some time.

But it should be pretty easy for them to give us dual mono recording and it would be a huge improvement.

[John Kelly]

Anyone heard a tentative release date on the next firmware update?

They released 1.2.3 today. 

[thegreatgumbino]

Thanks John.  +T    I just saw that after my post.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=56163.0

[Ed.]

badass!

[Nick Graham]

Anyone heard a tentative release date on the next firmware update?

I wouldn't hold your breath. I'm still waiting (5 days) to get info to return my Microtrack to M-Audio.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Nick.  Didn't you have a couple successful runs with the MT?

I want to make the 24 bit jump, but haven't decided which way to leap yet 

The 4 shows I ran with the Microtrack were perfect, aside from user error. I was one of the main people championing this thing, then for no apparent reason whatsoever mine just completely quit working. Won't power up, won't charge - it's completely dead.

I have a feeling the firmware got screwed up, so as of right now there's no OS on it at all, so it doesn't know to do anything. Unfortunately though, there's no emergency reset or rescue capability...so I'm pretty much screwed.

[mmedley.]

Anyone heard a tentative release date on the next firmware update?

I wouldn't hold your breath. I'm still waiting (5 days) to get info to return my Microtrack to M-Audio.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Nick.  Didn't you have a couple successful runs with the MT?

I want to make the 24 bit jump, but haven't decided which way to leap yet 

The 4 shows I ran with the Microtrack were perfect, aside from user error. I was one of the main people championing this thing, then for no apparent reason whatsoever mine just completely quit working. Won't power up, won't charge - it's completely dead.

I have a feeling the firmware got screwed up, so as of right now there's no OS on it at all, so it doesn't know to do anything. Unfortunately though, there's no emergency reset or rescue capability...so I'm pretty much screwed.

My 722 will be in town Thursday if you need to use it for anything before the 29th!