Topic: Wanting to purchase camcorder for taping concerts

[Hot-Cross]

Hey everyone, I'm new around here.

So I plan on purchasing a camcorder relatively soon, specifically, MiniDV.  I want to kep the price rang close to $300, so I guess I am going for the most bang for my buck.

I am hoping to picksomething up with fairly good picture quality and sound.  I know I might be expecting too much for this price, but any help would be appreciated.

I'm wanting to make DVD's out of the live gigs to be used to trade other collector's online at sites such as Etree.

Thanks!

[Hot-Cross]

I'm thinking about the Panasonic PV-GS320...I also hear it has a mic input.

I know someone on Youtube who has a Panasonic PV-GS150, ad he's recorded some really good videos.  Here is an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vex7zoYPZVM

Does this camera seem like a decent choice?

Thanks again.

[sullen]

GS 320 is a fab camera.

You can't go wrong with that for your budget.

[Hot-Cross]

Thanks for the reply.

I had my information wrong...the GS320 has no mic input, it's the GS300 that does.  How is the sound quality and pickup at concerts for the GS320?

[sullen]

Thought they both did.
Maybe not.


I use the gs500 mainly, so i can only comment on that, but they were all part of the same product line, so chances are their audio circuitry is similar or the same.

I always run the headphone out on my DAT into the mic in on the DV cam, the result is always excellent.

While the 500 does have gain control (assuming the 320/300 does too), even to it's lowest setting, if youre taping loud gigs, youre prob going to need something in between the mics to help your signal down a bit so it dosen't distort.

That being said, you have everything setup properly, the panasonic 3ccd dv cams will give you some of the best audio and video of standard definition dv cams in concert settings.

[Hot-Cross]

No, only the GS300 has a mic inpute.  Knowing this, and also that the only device I will be using at a concert is the camcorder itself, would it be wiser to purchase the GS320 with no mic input, not knowing quite how well its sound output is, or should I go for the GS300 which will allow me to purchase a better mic if need be?  Other members may respond and let me know their opinions as well!

[Jimna]

if i was starting over buying a cam i would get a sony pc-100.  if budget is an issue, used would be fine.  they seem to pull some of the best footage ive seen so far, although i havent seen the mentioned panasonic cams, i have a panasonic that im very unhappy with.  very obvious difference in quality to the sony as we mixed it with my buddys pc-100.  so obvious that we ended up using minimal footage i shot.

food for thought

[sullen]

This is why ill always recomend Panny cams, and can sound like a panasonic salesman when people ask me about them.

GS500 in depeche mode (good lighting, but a good example of it handling a strobe here too)













GS500 filming Mogwai (VERY VERY Low blues, what they play under equates to about candlelight)




I don't have anymore screens of my work online, but this quality is a constant with the panny 3ccds.

The 300/320 are very similar cams, the 500 is just a bit better.
I have a freind in europe that shoots with a 320 and we do the same tours and his results are very close to mine.

[Jimna]

wow!  thats awesome!  i guess mine is just a crap model.  very unhappy w/ mine.   

[Hot-Cross]

Very nice examples, thanks!

Deciding between the 300 or 320, does your friend with the 320 have any complaints about the mic and sound quality of the camera?  I just don't want to buy this one, only to realize that I should have purchased the 300 for the mic input.

Thanks so much for your help thus far.

[sullen]

wow!  thats awesome!  i guess mine is just a crap model.  very unhappy w/ mine.   

Yes, pannys vary greatly, but the 3ccd line is fab.

Very nice examples, thanks!

Deciding between the 300 or 320, does your friend with the 320 have any complaints about the mic and sound quality of the camera?  I just don't want to buy this one, only to realize that I should have purchased the 300 for the mic input.

Thanks so much for your help thus far.

Honestly haven't spoken to him in a longtime and lost his email.
And he used to sync to external dat sources so really didnt comment or mess with the incam audio.

My advice would be to get the mic input, it's never a bad thing, your def going to want it unless youre into editing and putting an audio track into it in post.

Personally i just want to watch my videos on tv and not worry about massive editing, so i use the mic input all the time and would never buy a cam without one.

Most, probably all, dv cams were not designed to handle 100+db of audio with the built in mic.

[greatape]

Very nice examples, thanks!

Deciding between the 300 or 320, does your friend with the 320 have any complaints about the mic and sound quality of the camera?  I just don't want to buy this one, only to realize that I should have purchased the 300 for the mic input.

Thanks so much for your help thus far.

I have a GS300.  I'm quite happy with the video quality but I must warn you the onboard mics are not very good.  I've never even tried using the mic input so I can't comment on its quality.  I run audio independently to my iRiver, so the GS300's bad mics are not an issue for me.   Maybe the 320 has better mics?  I don't know.  My friend has a GS250 and it sounds a little better than mine.

Here is a sample clip (excuse me for not yet mastering the ability to deal with youtube compression) with my GS300 from the front and my friend's GS250 from the side.  Audio is my Church Audio/iRiver.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pl_jDXzL5yc

[Hot-Cross]

I might have found something that interests me a bit more and is in my price range.

Here's another video on youtube of someone I've been talking to who recorded part of a Protest the Hero set.  She used a Panasonic PV-GS19 but told me that it is discontinued and that the newest version of it is the PV-GS90.

This camcorder puts out nice video as well as good sound, and the newest version is right around $300.  I am assuming that the same mic technology has been used in the current version.

Here are a couple of videos to get an idea of the quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixT8cEdpEsA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skzIyUa67Js
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAcPbLkTqXI

I'm not looking for the top-of-the-line obviously, just something I can use to make my own dvd's and trade to other traders.  I play on recording bands I watch at Warped Tour this year, first and foremost.

What does everyone think?

[Jimna]

that looks about like the quality video im getting from my panny cam.  im not happy with it.  no clarity IMO.  the screen pics sullen posted are what i want and not what im getting, i wish i would have save the extra money to buy the better cam in the first place instead of need all the more cash to replace it after the fact.  i love how in sullen's shoots i can actually see the art in his tattoo's.  

whats your cam going for, sullen?

[Jimna]

here are screen shots from mine(PV-GS15), you make the call: (Derek Trucks Band & Susan Tedeschi Band 11-3-06)

[Hot-Cross]

Ah, ok, well, the thing is, since the onboard mics aren't too great for the GS300, I would need an external mic.  Could anyone recommend me a mic that is compatible with this camcorder?  Also, how much would it cost me for a mic with pretty good sound, no worse than the sound quality of those youtube videos i posted in my previous post?

[Hot-Cross]

Ok, so I think I might go with the Panasonic Pv-GS180, which I can get from here:

http://www.zoommania.com/descript.asp?prodid=PVGS180

And I will get the Sony ecm-msd1 external microphone, found here:

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-ECMMSD1-Camcorder-Microphone-DCRVX2100/dp/B00008ZGSP

I know someone who recorded a CKY concert in Reading, Pennsylvania in 2005 using a JVC gr-df550u along with this external mic, and his audio and video came out great.  Or does someone thing I should just get the GS300 and this external mic?

This will probably be my last question concerning this, so thanks for the help!

[guitard]

This camcorder puts out nice video as well as good sound, and the newest version is right around $300.  I am assuming that the same mic technology has been used in the current version.

It's best not to assume ~ you gotta read the specs very carefully.  If a particular function doesn't seem to be very popular, the manufacturers will often drop it from the latest model in an attempt to save a few bucks.  Keep in mind, shooting concert vids is not what videocams are typically used for, and shooting this kind of video presents some somewhat unique challenges, so finding a cam that's up to the task can be kind of tricky - especially if you're on a tight budget.

Regarding Pannys... I have a Panny 3-chip PV-GS120 (obviously - an older model Panny).  The onboard mic handles concert audio surprisingly well and it can shoot some absolutely beautiful video.  HOWEVER, it doesn't have exposure adjustment.  It's pretty good about handling exposure, but there are some situations when it just doesn't handle it well (the further away from the stage - the worse it gets).

So...I'd make sure that whatever you're getting has manual exposure adjustment - because of the stage lighting, it's critical for shooting nice concert vids.

[Hot-Cross]

So I won a bid on ebay for a JVC gr-df550u for $123 that has only been used about 3 times.  I'll be getting the Sony ecm-msd1 external microphone as well, this is the same combination that was used to shoot the CKY Reading 05 concert.  O am pretty sure I will be happy with it...it does well with low-lighting.

[shaggy28]

hey i just saw this thread. But i have a gs300 and i really don't mind the audio. It's not GREAT but i've been more than please with some of the stuff that came out in clubs. Bigger venues it's always more of a hassle but the cam itself is great. I actually filmed the whole protest the hero gig with the cam (same one you posted links to before)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRecbw91XM (think this one has a mixed audio)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSd1Gs7SA9k  (this should be just cam)

I've never plugged into the cam i always use either R09 or minidisk but i've been meaning to try it out.

[Hot-Cross]

Hey man, do you trade out the shows you tape?  I'd love to get that Protest the Hero gig from you.

[Industrial]

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but I got a Panasonic PV-GS90 and it is fantastic at recording concerts.  It does not have a mic input (Like most models you can buy in a store unfortunately) but it handles the loudness really well.  Also it has a condenser built in mic, and zoom mic function.  I taped a few concerts with it, and it
sounds very good for a built in mic.  No distortion, and with the zoom mic function you can cancel out a lot of crowd noise.  The only problems are the frame rate, which at highest picture quality is only 20 fps, and the fact that older Panasonic batteries do not work on it.  I am still an amateur at recording concerts (I have been doing video for a month) but overall, I am very glad that this camcorder did so well.  You can see some songs I recorded here:

http://www.youtube.com/IndustrialLive

[Elvis Hitler]

I got a GS120 back before the 300 series came out and have had mixed but mostly good experiences with it.

Pros:
Good picture and color under well-lit stage conditions
Audio from the built in mics has always sounded good
Small size makes it easy to carry & set up

Cons:
Steadyshot function does not work in low light conditions (including many club shows), so unless you have a tripod you will end up with a very shaky picture.
Can't handle strobe lights well without llosing focus
No real 16:9 mode, just a faux-widescreen "Cinema" setting

I heard they fixed the Steadyshot function by making it optical instead of digital and added true 16:9 to the newer models, so most of my cons probably wouldn't even apply to those.   I paid about $500 for mine a few years ago so if the 300 series can be bought for $300 I would recommend getting one.

[guitard]

Can't handle strobe lights well without losing focus

I'd go with manual focus in these situations.

[Elvis Hitler]

Regarding Pannys... I have a Panny 3-chip PV-GS120 (obviously - an older model Panny).  The onboard mic handles concert audio surprisingly well and it can shoot some absolutely beautiful video.  HOWEVER, it doesn't have exposure adjustment.  It's pretty good about handling exposure, but there are some situations when it just doesn't handle it well (the further away from the stage - the worse it gets).

So...I'd make sure that whatever you're getting has manual exposure adjustment - because of the stage lighting, it's critical for shooting nice concert vids.

I've found that the auto exposure on the 120's actually seems to work much better than the Sonys I've used (which always need to be adjusted down to avoid that grainy picture).  I tried the "spotlight" setting on the 120 but it's usually too dark, so I just leave everything on auto (though you're right that manual focus should probably be used to avoid the strobe problems).

My main cams are the Sony VX2100 and FX1, but I'll often use my GS120 for a stationary full stage shot or for a "drummer cam" and the picture quality is usually good enough to edit together with the footage from the two higher end cameras.