Topic: How do you archive your multi-channel recordings?

[balou2]

So, I'm debating how I want to keep all my source information.  For me, it's 4 channel recordings on the R4.  Most of the time I record in 24/48 (or even 44) and then dither to 16/44 for discs.  It's easy to FLAC up the 16/44 sources, but I want to keep my 24bit sources as well.  How are other folks doing this?

- Are you keeping everything on hard drives?
- Are you making both 16 and 24 bit FLAC files?
- Are you storing on DVD?

Running 24/48, I'm typically nearing the 5GB threshhold per show.  FLAC-ed up, that obviously decreases, but it's still a lot of memory.  Whatcha doin?

[dorrcoq]

I save both 24 and 16 bit sources to DVD.  Well, I don't always record at 24 bit, but if I do...

[svenkid]

DVD and DVD back up (off-site location) 

[taper420]

I flac both 24 and 16 of the final mix, but these are both for trading purposes and possibly if I have extra room on an archive. For archiving...2 DVD copies of original source files with md5's, one of which is kept at my cousins house in a firesafe, the other is kept at my house. I also make a miniDV data archive using 1:1 error correction of the source files. Most of the time I will have a matrix, and therefore a bit of mixing is involved...to make my work easily accessible, when I'm done with a project (in AudioDesk), i will compact it and burn the whole project to DVD. I just make one copy of this, as it wouldnt be as great a loss as the original source files.

[TNJazz]

Unmixed and uncompressed on a dockable hard drive (with session files), plus unmixed and compressed (FLAC) with session files on DVDR.

Dirk

[RebelRebel]

well isnt there a rule that info isnt technically backed up unless it is in 3 places??

For me..I keep all raw files on my DAW HD, another copy on a Storage only PC,, and 2 DVD Copies.

[F.O.Bean]

i dont do 4 channel, but i have 3 copies of everything

1. raw files off of the 722 and wavs with gain added in wavelab 5(24-bit data DVD-R) w/ md5's for each set/folder, sometimes i have to put 1 set per dvd since there are two files per set. i also keep the cue sheets from cdwave on this DVD-R and EVERYTHING is md5'd

2. flac24 folder w/ md5

3. flac16 folder w/ md5

[taper420]

Since all of us are backing up to DVD-R something should probably be said about the archival quality of these discs. There are 3 types of dyes used in blank optical media, and these can sometimes be figured out from the color, but othertimes the dyes are dyed making it look different. Now there are certain dyes that are said to be stable for 100+ years, other dyes are said to begin breaking down within 5-10 years. So needless to say, if you are archiving, you will want archival qualtity blanks (100+ years). I can't remember what program I used, but I have used one that scans a blank disc and tells you the dye that was used. It seems that Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim are both brands that use archival quality dye.

I've seen arguments on other forums as to whether magneto or optical is better for archiving.... it is generally accepted that if you are archiving to harddrive then you are taking a crap shoot. HD's can die merely sitting on the shelf, they don't need to be in use. I've also seen it said that magnetic tape is a better long term archiving choice than disc, because it's not really known how long the "archiving" dyes really do last (we haven't had these discs around for 100+ years). So just to be safe, I always backup my most important files to dvd and magnetic tape. There is a program (DVbackup) that allows using a miniDV drive as a data drive (actually you can use a regular, fullsized DV drive also), which is bucketloads cheaper than other data drives and tapes. Especially if you already have a miniDV camera. You can fit 5+ gigs on a tape with 1:1 error correction (which means it stores two full copies to compare) in SP mode, or around 8 gigs with 1:1 in LP mode. Not useful for archiving, but you can get 20 + gigs with no error correction.
Hope that helps somebody.

[Brian Skalinder]

I store the music as data three ways:

<1>  on-site hard drives (two, mirrored)

I typically only include the highest resolution files (typically 24-bit / 48 Hz) on these HDs.  I figure I can always re-derive lower res versions (typically 16-bit / 44 kHz) from the higher res files.  Files are tracked, faded, and FLAC'd, basically in listening state.  For 2-channel recordings I've mastered, or 4-channel recordings, I also include FLAC'd raw tracks so I may re-mix or -master down the road if I wish.

<2>  on-site optical media (DVD-R these days, but previously CD-R)

I dump onto optical media everything I do to/with the files: raw files, edited files, editing / mastering notes, cue sheets, info files, tracked and faded final files (both 24/48 and 16/44), etc.  Everything.

<3>  off-site (via seeding, LMA, etc.)

Off-site backups in the form of seeded recordings typically include both 24/48 and 16/44 versions, tracked, faded, and FLAC'd.  Since I only seed the final versions of the recordings, I currently have a gap in off-site backup for my raw files.  I need to apply an off-site scheme to back up my raw files from both 2-channel recordings I've mastered, as well as 4-channel recordings I've mixed.  I've not done this yet, but it will probably take the form of HD and/or optical media stored at my father or sister's house.

[svenkid]

my off-site is my Mom's house

[BayTaynt3d]

As someone who makes many 3-4 channel recordings with an R4, I use mirrored hard disks and DVDs for my backups, but my full workflow looks typically like this:

1. Aquire to 2xStereo @ 24/44.1
2. FLAC the 24-Bit originals and immediately back up a 2nd copy to a 2nd hard drive (in case something corrupts during workflow)
3. I complete and SAVE a NON-destructive edit in an NLE as a project file (I use Vegas). This includes trimming ends, fading ends, and possibly EQ, gain/compression, reverb, dither, etc.
4. I then render out a 16/44.1 master wav from Vegas for tracking
5. Using CDWave, I track out the master wav and SAVE the cuesheet file
6. I then burn an audio CD from the tracked masters
7. Write the info.txt file

So, at this point I have the original 24-bit untouched wav, a 16-bit mixed untracked master, then the 16-bit mixed and tracked masters, which combined take up a lot of space. BUT THE BEAUTY OF THIS WORKFLOW is that all I really need is the original untouched wav, the vegas project file, and the CDWav cuesheet file to recreate everything. At any time in the future, I can simply unflac the originals, open the vegas project, render out a mixed/mastered version, open that in CDWave and using the saved cuesheet track it out to final form. Now there is some work involved in re-doing that whole procedure, but you don't have to re-mix (the vegas project has all of your edits saved in it) and you don't have to re-track (the cuesheet takes care of that). It's nice to know you can re-create (not re-do, just re-create using the project files) everything by only keeping the original. That said, for convenience, I usually save the tracked FLAC16s plus the original and the Vegas and cuesheet files, and I throw out the rendered untracked masters. If I'm tight on space with a DVD, I may discard the tracked FLAC16s for the DVD knowing that having the originals plus project files will let me reproduce the mixed master again.

So, at this point, the workflow usually goes:

8. I usually encode MP3s from the tracked masters using VBR4 with the LAME codec
9. FLAC the tracked masters
10. Delete all non-essential files. So, I'm usually left with just the FLAC'd 24-bit originals, the FLAC'd 16-bit tracked masters, MP3s, info.txt file, vegas project file, and CDWave cuesheet file.
11. Back all of that up to DVD and take it offsite, which is at work for me (if short on disk space, I don't include the tracked 16-bit flacs, see above)
12. In addition to the offsite DVD, it also remains on two mirrored drives

The one thing that is key here is using a non-destructive workflow. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but someone who is recording a lot and tends to always do some "production" on their recordings, it works great. In addition to only having to save the originals, it also makes it super easy to re-mix down the road. Say a year later you listen to it, and you decide you really need more bass in the mix, or want to change something for whatever reason. Just open the Vegas project file that works on the original wav, make your new mixing tweaks to the last project, re-render out the 16-bit master, open in CDwave and use the saved cuesheet to track it again, and you're done. So sweet...

[F.O.Bean]

I love how everyone has a slightly different archival standards, but each and every way is obsessive as hell, as mine is

[balou2]

my off-site is my Mom's house

my off-site is your mom's house too!   

No but seriously...it's interesting to see how folks archive their music.  All tolled, it's all similar in scope, but different in procedure.  Great stuff folks.

[poorlyconditioned]

I love how everyone has a slightly different archival standards, but each and every way is obsessive as hell, as mine is

Exactly!  The only thing more important than taping is keeping our archives .

Psychiatrist: how often do you wash your hands?
Patient: no more often than necessary.

  Richard

[bgalizio]

When I record multi-channel, it's SBD & AUD. I do the following for archiving:

Master WAVs of each source on DVDs.
Master FLACs of each source on DVDs.
Matrix WAV on DVD.
Matrix FLAC on DVD.
24bit FLAC of SBD, AUD, Matrix on HD, DVD, seed, DVD-A
16bit FLAC of SBD, AUD, Matrix on HD, DVD, seed, CD-R

I track each source individually because some of my family/friends prefer SBDs, while others prefer AUDs or the Matrix. It only takes a couple of minutes to track the other sources, so it isn't really a big deal for me to do. Plus, I only tape ~25 shows a year, not 5+ per week like some of you guys!