Topic: Please help. What to do? Taped and gig and told not to spread by management.

[boojum]

The man said, "no."  What is it about "no" that you don't understand?  You are just trying to weasel out of it.  No = No.

[heyitsmejess]

im just curious...who is it?

[Krispy D]

Your level of integrity and respect or lack thereof of others wishes should answer this question very easily. 

[itook2much]

Just as a side issue: has anyone released one of their recordings (a show not in circulation, so maybe your copy is the only one), and just released it to a few die-hard collectors on a 'Not For Trade' basis. This is a complete side issue from my current issue. The reason I'm asking is because I have some shows from some bands that I've got on a not for trade basis because the taper doesn't want them circulated.

I have shows that I haven't circulated for various reasons.  The artist asked me to keep it to myself, a few that include material to be on the artists' debut album not yet released, & some I just haven't gotten around to.  Most have gone to friends that were there with me, but no further.

As far as shows I didn't tape, I have plenty that I won't circulate.  If I'm asked to not trade it, & I agree, I keep my word.  I have a number of shows from various tapers who asked me to not spread them...so I haven't.  Period.

If you're going to make an exception after agreeing not to spread a show (& it's probably advisable that you not), you better be sure it'll stop with whomever you give it to.  If I don't want a show to go any further, I limit it to trusted tapers, who'll understand the idea that it stops with them.  A trader you don't know may figure you traded it to him, so what's the big deal if he trades it further?

Stick to your word, it'll pay off in the end.  The artist will know you can be trusted, & you may reap benefits from that.  Those you traded with will know you can be trusted, & you'll likely benefit from that.  I traded with another local taper that filmed a solo show by the singer of a legendary punk band.  He was given permission to film, but was asked not to spread it.  While working out a trade, we were just talking about shows we'd taped/seen, & he mentioned that one.  I was there, said I'd love that one.  He explained the situation, & trusted me to sit on it.  I have, and he even included a partial show he'd filmed from another band on the DVD.  That show doesn't exist on a recording according to the collector sites for the band.  Over time, stuff will come out (although that video is from 1993).

No need to rush to spread it when you know it'll piss off the artist.  Sit on it.  Wait awhile.  If no release is forthcoming, ask about it.  Explain the situation to those with whom you've set up trades.  And when you do set up the deal with the webmaster, ask to trade for the video or his recording.  Quid pro quo.  Your one-of-a-kind for his.  But if he balks, I'd just give it to him.  Better to help out an artist you like than to chance angering or alienating him or his staff.

[newplanet7]

This seems like a catch 22 of sorts IMO.
There are tons of members on this board that stealth and circulate recordings against
the bands policy/wishes.
I don't personally, but have dl'd my fair share.
My question is to those who say no don't post.

What is the difference between a stealth taper on this board who seeds and what
randallanddarcy is posing?

Is there really a grey area?
A policy is a policy, be it for one specific show or all of their shows.

[itook2much]

This seems like a catch 22 of sorts IMO.
There are tons of members on this board that stealth and circulate recordings against
the bands policy/wishes.
I don't personally, but have dl'd my fair share.
My question is to those who say no don't post.

What is the difference between a stealth taper on this board who seeds and what
randallanddarcy is posing?

Is there really a grey area?
A policy is a policy, be it for one specific show or all of their shows.

I stealth, & I circulate some of them.  I have a few the artist knew about & asked me to sit on, & I've done so.

It's one thing to anonymously stealth a show & spread it.

It's entirely another to tape it, post on the artist's message board that you did so, then be asked not to spread it by the artist's representative, and then spread it anyway.

It's "violating" a general policy versus ignoring a specific request made to you personally.  I really don't see it as that grey, or that fine a line of distinction.

[wilsonedits]

if management tells you to do something do it !

[kbergend]

I'm totally with Brian on this one.  It hurts all of us when a taper disregards an artist's or their management's express wishes about the distribution of a show.  I was asked not to distribute a matrix I made of Ryan Adams tearing up Hammerstein Ballroom last Halloween because a DVD is supposedly in the works, and it's killing me!  But if those kinds of requests are disregarded, fewer artists will allow taping under any circumstances.  The people you have trades lined up with should understand your situation.

[illconditioned]

This seems like a catch 22 of sorts IMO.
There are tons of members on this board that stealth and circulate recordings against
the bands policy/wishes.
I don't personally, but have dl'd my fair share.
My question is to those who say no don't post.

What is the difference between a stealth taper on this board who seeds and what
randallanddarcy is posing?

Is there really a grey area?
A policy is a policy, be it for one specific show or all of their shows.

Interesting situation!

If I know the artist I will follow their request, that is, ask permission, and post only if agreed.  As some of you have seen, I have a compromise situation of posting clips on my website (http://Soundmann.com).

If I don't know the artists (typically more popular artists, I can't reach before the show), I'll (stealth) tape anyway, but keep to myself.

I have not considered the third option, taping stealth, and posting to dimeadozen.  I'm not into this, but I must say I am glad others are doing this so I can hear some bigger acts.  I get to hear the shows without attending large venues.

Yes, it is a grey area, but it does not make sense to openly tape and then violate the artists' wishes.

  Richard

[Myco]

In the few instances I've heard complaints from band managers/promoters complaining about shows being taped and released they didn't say "that John Smith is a douchebag, he released the show when we asked him not to.", they said "that f***in taper released the show when we asked him not to." We all are judged collectively, fairly or not, so my opinion would be to respect the wishes of band management. Ultimately it is your decision to make, but be aware that your decision can have consequences for all of the rest of us and do you want to be the guy that all the tapers curse out for screwing it up for all of the rest of us? I archived for a now defunct band that many people liked alot and I have all of their soundboards still at my home. Many people have asked for a copy of this show or that show because they just can't find it anywhere, but the band and their management asked me specifically to not allow copies out unless I can trust that the individual getting them will not spread it around, so I just sit on them. Maybe someday I'll be allowed to release them, but for now I sit on this pile of DATs that alot of people seem to want. It sucks but it's not worth screwing with the people who allow you to do what you like to do. Just my .02 cents.

[newplanet7]

This seems like a catch 22 of sorts IMO.
There are tons of members on this board that stealth and circulate recordings against
the bands policy/wishes.
I don't personally, but have dl'd my fair share.
My question is to those who say no don't post.

What is the difference between a stealth taper on this board who seeds and what
randallanddarcy is posing?

Is there really a grey area?
A policy is a policy, be it for one specific show or all of their shows.

Interesting situation!

If I know the artist I will follow their request, that is, ask permission, and post only if agreed.  As some of you have seen, I have a compromise situation of posting clips on my website (http://Soundmann.com).

If I don't know the artists (typically more popular artists, I can't reach before the show), I'll (stealth) tape anyway, but keep to myself.

I have not considered the third option, taping stealth, and posting to dimeadozen.  I'm not into this, but I must say I am glad others are doing this so I can hear some bigger acts.  I get to hear the shows without attending large venues.

Yes, it is a grey area, but it does not make sense to openly tape and then violate the artists' wishes.

  Richard

I definitely wasn't suggesting he do anything, one way or the other.
I just wanted to hear peoples opinions who stealth tape and spread against the bands wishes, ala Dime/TTD. That was my whole gray area point. Is one situation more valid because one is a general to all policy not to share vs. a specific show policy?

Personally, I wouldn't post it but, there is a hint of hypocrisy in ME that sometimes downloads a
bands show against their no taping/trading policy.

[morst]

Dimeadozen has a "banned artist" list that groups can opt-in to.

The difference between a straight-up stealth and this situation is that a specific request was made to a specific person to not circulate. Sometimes trying to be a good guy can backfire. Had you never asked if you could post, you would not have been shut down directly. Kinda ironic, huh Ren?

[restevezes]

The stealth debate is something different to what we are discussing here, IMHO.
Fact is that management explicitly asked taper not to distribute this specific recording.
Very big difference with pretty obvious answer. It is all about ethics. If taper is still wondering what to do, probably makes no sense in trying to explain him

[adrianf74]

I've been following this thread for a while now, and I finally feel that it's time to add my $0.03 (due to inflation).

I think there are two issues here that people are confusing:

1. The original post says it all: the taper was asked NOT to circulate the show after in contact with the artists management/personnel. That is, IMHO, the end of the debate.  You've been asked NOT to do so, so you don't.  End of story.  If you do, you end up burning the ability for others to tape the artist's show (whether it be this particular artists or others who are represented by the same team members).

2. If the original poster had not been in contact and had stealth'd the show and then chose to seed it, trade it, give it away, then the only way he would have had to stop as if he'd been asked to by the artist/management/legal, etc.

By having been in contact with the team, and having been asked not to, it's been summed up in two letters: NO.

[newplanet7]

I'm not confusing the point. I realize it's two different situations.
I am posing a different point one of me being hypocritical in giving an answer on this thread
that's all.
Richard understood that.
Take the Almans policy.
To open tape and not to trade on-line.
I've d/l'd a few of those for sure.
That's the only point I was getting at.