Topic: ideas to improve my taping gear / sound please

[newplanet7]

Pretty much what I was saying. ^^^
A ton of recs around here for just getting omnis. It's not right.

[aaronji]

^^^ Interesting that you say that.  My impression is that, in general, the vast majority of recommendations on the site are for cardioids, with a handful of omni, hyper or wide-card suggestions sprinkled in...

Which one is better depends a lot on the situations in which you're taping, in my opinion.  Like Chris said, it's good to have both...For the bands/rooms I usually record in, omnis are great, but I have a pair of cards that I also use for some venues and artists.  If I could only have one, I would take the omnis as they are the right choice for me about 90% of the time.  I think for most of the members here, though, that's probably reversed (cards are better 90% of the time).

In any event, for the OP's intended use (taping his own band's performances), omnis might be a good choice because he can presumably go on-stage...

It is true, I think, that in the subminiature mic category, omnis tend to be better performing overall - in that they have a more normal frequency response - than small cardiods.

I think that is generally true with larger mics too, particularly in the low-end...

[acidjack]

Thanks brother. Thought I was losing it for second.
Making up numbers, I'd say 75% of the board here doesn't even own omnis. That speaks volumes IMHO.
Yet Most have a great set of cards. I just don't want new tapers to think omnis are it
and get discouraged when they use them in all the wrong situations and come home with a boomy, chatty turd.

If I was actively taping and I am not ( too busy building gear these days ) I would have both omni and card with me at all times. And once you arrive at the venue make your decision then. Because unless its a venue you know well its hard to say that omni will work or Card will work. In some situations omni is the only way to go when you want real fidelity. In other situation the only hope you have of a good capture is a cardioid. Anyone that says use one or the other with out first being in the venue is blowing smoke up your ass and wasting your time. Every venue is different every situation is different. Its like fishing you would never go to a lake with one lure you would bring a tackle box. I would never do sound for a band with just one mic I would bring several and during the pre tour rehearsal I might have as many as 50 different mics to try out for different things.

I don't disagree with you, but I think if you are talking about only having ONE set of mics, which a lot of guys do, I'd say to get the cardiods unless you are always in a great spot. 

Your original advice, which we've all echoed, to get your omni+card package, is the ideal. 

[stevetoney]

I might be wrong, but I think the reason people are gushing about the omni's is that when I had both the CA-14 cards and omni's, in ideal situations I felt that the omni recordings sounded better than anything I ever got with the cards.  That made me feel more passion for using the omni's whenever I could.  Like I said, not sure if that's the source of people's recommending the CA-14O, but probably.  I'd also say this though, omni's as you move back in the room progressively sound shittier and shittier.

That said, for $189 there's no way you shouldn't get both for reasons people have already stated.  You don't appreciate it now because you don't have the experience, but you'll appreciate having both later once you have the chance to get a better feel for where to use each mic.  If your budget is such that you have to choose between one or the other, $189 really isn't much at all to spend in this hobby, so just wait until you can afford $189 or work an extra shift or something. 

Trust us.   

PS:  You can trust CA Dude too.  He gives the straight scoop even though he's the seller.  He's sold tons of gear here, so it wouldn't serve him well to fluff crappy gear or steer you wrong.

[burris]

For audience taping of rock bands you'll never need omnis.  99% of the rooms you record in sound like crap, especially when you factor in yakking, hollering, whistling, people ordering drinks, and the crashing of bottles.  Cardioids will always work great if you know how to use them.  Take what you would spend on two pairs of mics and get one better pair of cardioids.  Unless you want to do a lot of multitrack recording you shouldn't get a second pair of mics until you have traded up to what you think are the best sounding cardioids on the market.

My main stereo pair has been in production since 1983 and I've had mine for 16 years.  Lots of people still taping shows with mics they have had for 20+ years that are still made by the manufacturer.  No worries about mics going obsolete so get the best ones you can afford.

Step one is to figure out what your budget is.
Step two is to listen to lots of recordings made with mics in your price range.  It won't take long before you start forming your own opinions.

[Church-Audio]

For audience taping of rock bands you'll never need omnis.  99% of the rooms you record in sound like crap, especially when you factor in yakking, hollering, whistling, people ordering drinks, and the crashing of bottles.  Cardioids will always work great if you know how to use them.  Take what you would spend on two pairs of mics and get one better pair of cardioids.  Unless you want to do a lot of multitrack recording you shouldn't get a second pair of mics until you have traded up to what you think are the best sounding cardioids on the market.

My main stereo pair has been in production since 1983 and I've had mine for 16 years.  Lots of people still taping shows with mics they have had for 20+ years that are still made by the manufacturer.  No worries about mics going obsolete so get the best ones you can afford.

Step one is to figure out what your budget is.
Step two is to listen to lots of recordings made with mics in your price range.  It won't take long before you start forming your own opinions.

Some of the best recordings I have ever heard as a live sound engineer for over 20+ years have been omni mics. It really does not depend on the room so much as where you are in that room in relation to the sound system and how good the mix is.


Chris

[Belexes]

For audience taping of rock bands you'll never need omnis.

Most outdoor omni recordings I have done, not under an amphitheater roof, of rock bands absolutely smoke anything a cardioid pattern would produce.

[trevtdogg]

thanks heaps for everyone's input - i've decided to go with the Church Audio omni + cards + box bundle, have emailed Chris back and forth and sent payment.

Will keep my eyes open for a cheap sony m-10 to replace the h340 as my main recording unit, but my band mate has just ordered an edirol R09 from ebay so we'll be able to test that out too whenever it arrives.

[adrianf74]

Some of the best recordings I have ever heard as a live sound engineer for over 20+ years have been omni mics. It really does not depend on the room so much as where you are in that room in relation to the sound system and how good the mix is.

+1 to this.  It's a matter of where you are in the room.  I've had an opprortunity to often run my omnis against a friends AKG 480's with Card Caps and I'll take my omni recording (with Chris' mics) over his cards.  And this was both indoor and outdoor.  This was only one instance where he ran the Hypers and both my mics (running to M10's) were weak recordings because the sound system wasn't loud enough.

I've said this before, there are going to be people who love their cards and then there are going to be those who love their omnis.   I generally fall into the latter (and have been more-so of late as I've been using the omnis almost 100% of the time with good to excellent results).  Let's just say that EITHER mic from Chris is a good choice and let the OP experiment on their own. 

[Belexes]

I've said this before, there are going to be people who love their cards and then there are going to be those who love their omnis.   I generally fall into the latter (and have been more-so of late as I've been using the omnis almost 100% of the time with good to excellent results).  Let's just say that EITHER mic from Chris is a good choice and let the OP experiment on their own. 

I like to have a lot of options depending on where and what I am taping and hold no allegiance to any one pattern. Most folks here that are new may have limited funds and want that one magic pair of mics.  When funds are available, add more patterns to your gear and experiment. That is what make this hobby fun!

[adrianf74]

I like to have a lot of options depending on where and what I am taping and hold no allegiance to any one pattern. Most folks here that are new may have limited funds and want that one magic pair of mics.  When funds are available, add more patterns to your gear and experiment. That is what make this hobby fun!

I agree.  I usually bring both sets of mics with me (cards and omnis) and decide what I'm going with ONCE I'm inside the venue.   If I can get close enough I'll run the omnis but if I'm stuck back by the soundboad, I'll often run the cards "just because."   There is no one-size fits all mic or pattern in any of this.  I think the OP is going to be happy having bought both CA-14's with a preamp for not much more than what I paid 16 years ago for my first binaural mic set.

[newplanet7]

All I'm saying is let's not only go with one pattern and suggest the new OP go with one pattern being omnis.
Simple.

[George]

The at's are cool for owning one pair of bodies and then rolling out the various caps, but man, the omni caps are pricey for some reason.  Looks like the Church mics are the way to go.  IMHO, go with cards first.  It's the safe bet and hell, they still sound tight pretty up close.

[F.O.Bean]

I would choose HYPERS if I had to choose 1 option

[newplanet7]

I would choose HYPERS if I had to choose 1 option