Topic: Just about ready to order......little help..

[Rich.]

Hey peeps, almost ready to order my shit:

First of all my budget at the mo is about $270 (150 GBP). I’m not sure whether that’s gonna be enough but that’s what I have at the mo. I’m in quite a dilemma, as to be able to record the concerts I want to, I have about 2 weeks.

At the moment ill be recording on a Sony minidisk, possibly upgrading to a jb3 when I get a little more cash. The minidisk has no “mic in” socket so I will need to plug the equipment into the “line in”.

I’m looking for suggestions on a decent but affordable battery box (with bass-roll off) and a decent pair of mic’s preferably stealth ones that can be attached to my collar or could be concealed in a hat! The concerts I’m most likely to be recording are large arena shows and some small-medium sized clubs. The show I’m most wanting to record is a Incubus show which I’ll be attending on the 14th may. So any suggestions on what I should get?

Im not looking to get the best quality recordings in the world but as long as they are half decent I’m not too fussed.

Also would I need the preamplifier as this costs another $140. This would put me well over budget but if I do require it I don’t mind trying to scrape the rest of the cash together before the show, cos I don’t want to find myself needing to upgrade anytime soon.

Thanks!

[RastaFish]

If the minidisc unit you are looking at has no mic input, only a line in, you will need a pre-amp unless you are recording some seriously loud-as-shit music from right near the stacks.  Even then you would likely get low levels without a preamp.  Could you get a Sharp minidisc with a mic-in (assuming you are already decided on the minidisc format)?

[pfife]

You don't need a preamp, only a battery box to use line in on the MD.  Then, control the levels with the display on the MD recorder (if you can - certain Sony models don't have this, I believe).

I would dump most of your money into the mics - the CSB's come with a BB - then save your money for a new recorder and/or a preamp- sounds like an AD-20 would work nicely for you.


If you get mics and a battery box, that is the bare minimum you would need.  I would dump all of my money there, and skip the preamp for now.

I started with the same thing you have now, and you'll prolly get addicted to taping, which means you will want a nice pre/ external AD - which is your AD-20.  if you get a preamp now, when you want that external AD, you'll be carrying more boxes than you need.

HTH

[RastaFish]

I also had started with CoreSound binaurals > Sharp minidisc.  I was never able to get sufficient levels going straight into the line-in, the CoreSound mics just didn't put out enough signal, even when I had them right near the stacks.  The battery box simply provides power to the mics, it does nothing to boost the output signal from the mics.  YMMV, but I used this setup for about a year and my experience was that without a mic-pre I could not go line-in.  I could get levels but they were so low as to be virtually unusable.  

[Rich.]

How would I be able to tell about the recording levels. Im very doubtfull it has the function. The minidisc is the sony MZR410 model btw!

If I could get some used equipment that would be excellent! Does anyone know of any acutions on ebay at the moment that would suit my budget?

If people can direct me to some mics & battery boxes on ebay or from sound professionals that would be under my budget and of decent quality, that would be great and much appreciated.

[RastaFish]

It isn't just the minidisc units that need a pre-amp, I run CoreSound Cards these days with my D-100 DAT deck.  I am unable to use the line-in with the mics & battery box, just no way are those mics putting out enough signal for me to go line-in (and I tape loud electric shows).  I always end up using the mic-in.  A stock internal mic-pre is sufficient, it doesn't need to be some high-end external mic-pre, but the Sony minidisc unit you are talking about has no internal mic pre at all, just a straight line in, which is why I think you will be most unhappy with the results from running mics directly into the line-in.

The line input provides no gain (even if it allows you to set the levels manually), so unless your mics are outputting a line-level signal you will likely get poor results.  Some mics run hot enough to successfully run into the line-in, but my CoreSound mics never have.  I always need the gain provided by the mic pre-amp.

I bet you could find a used Sharp minidisc unit for a cheap price if you do some hunting around.  Ebay can be sketchy but if you use common sense, ask the seller questions before bidding, and use your gut instincts you can usually come out alright.  I get a lot of stuff off of Ebay, but I am pretty careful most of the time!

[pfife]

I would go SP Mics -> SP Slimline BB -> Net NZ707 Blue via line in, and kick the volume up loud on the md input.  I have also run the same thing into a NJB3, and it works fine as well, but I have to turn up the record levels, but never that high!

I don't know why you weren't getting loud enough volume, but mine was fine.

Rich- If you own this MD recorder already, look in the manual and see if you can adjust the recording level through line in... In my manual it was called 'manual recording' or something like that.  My guess would be that if you can boost the volume there, you won't need a preamp - just a battery box.

[Rich.]

The mindisc has been given to me by a friend and I dont think he has the manual! Is there any place I could check or read the manual online.

Arrrgh I really wana have a rig capable of recording, but it dosent look like its going to happen in my two week deadline!

Im going to be getting a iRiver mp3 player soon, do you think id be able to get a decent recording from that with a batt box and sp mics?  Alot of people say the recording facilty isnt up to scratch, but no one has really given me any reasons why its not up to standard!

[zhianosatch]

With your budget, buy new Sound Pro AT831s (I think CMC-2s, but I'm not sure) with a battery box for just under $200, then your pal's MD. EZ.

[Sean Gallemore]

Yeah, the CMC-2s will put out enough juice for you.

to check your MDs capabilities go to minidisc.org and look through the Equipment Browser

[RastaFish]

If you own this MD recorder already, look in the manual and see if you can adjust the recording level through line in... In my manual it was called 'manual recording' or something like that.  My guess would be that if you can boost the volume there, you won't need a preamp - just a battery box.

But remember that line-in does not apply any gain to the signal at all, so you can never "boost the volume" when using a line-input.  The level adjustments on a line-input act as an attenuator, meaning if the rec level is set at maximum, the signal coming in is not being changed at all.  At lower rec levels the signal is being attenuated down to the level you set it at.  You cannot actually "boost" the signal using a line-level input, all you can do is cut it, at best you can record it as-is.  The mic-input is just the opposite, it applies gain to the incoming signal which does actually increase the signal (it also adds noise, which is why you avoid cheap mic-pres if at all possible).  If the signal from the mics is weak to begin with, you cannot increase it using a line-input, only a pre-amp will actually add the gain you need.  If the signal from the mics is strong enough to work with the line-in you have no worries at all!  But without a mic pre you have no way to increase the levels (if you need to, you may not).

[Rich.]

What are the cheapest decent mics on sound professionals?

[zhianosatch]

The SP-CMC-2s, remember?

[Sean Gallemore]

yep, $120 for the pair and they sound nice

battery box is another $60, $80 if you want bass roll-off

that's well below your budget

[Rich.]

Someone give me a direct link to the mics. When I searched for the mics there was 12 differnt items!