Topic: Matrix with Inserts?

[Roving Sign]

My preamp has inserts on each channel. No gain - just a TRS insert.

Can I just run a soundboard signal in on the return? As long as I can control the level from the board it should be fine...?

[rowjimmy]

Can you reliably monitor the resulting mixed signal?

[cleantone]

I'm a little groggy right now but it might be the case that the return from the insert would bypass your preamp. The signal is obviously supposed to come out to some outboard gear and back in on the same jack. So if your trying to return a second source it might cut out the origional source. It might also depend on how the unit is built. You should try it out at home to know for sure.

[blastroknow]

I'm thinking if you have the TRS cable plugged into the insert jack on your pre it is going to be interrupting your preamp input signal completely.

[Roving Sign]

Ahh - when in doubt RTFM!

The 1/4” TRS Insert jack (Tip=SEND and Ring=RETURN), will allow you to add an effects loop directly into the signal path of the 386. This insertion point is located after the tube section and prior to the output section. This insertion positioning is ideal for adding external effects such as a compressor or an EQ to the analog and digital output sections.

Still a little unclear...

[John Kelly]

My preamp has inserts on each channel. No gain - just a TRS insert.

Can I just run a soundboard signal in on the return? As long as I can control the level from the board it should be fine...?

No, you cannot.

[Church-Audio]

Most insert jacks are ring tip sleeve they have normalizing switches built into the jack so that when something is plugged into them they expect to see a return depending on where the send is if its on the ring or the tip you can cheat. Use a mono jack and plug it in part way so that it does not make the contacts in the jack break. Then you will get signal from that point that can be used as an output the level is usually -10 or +4 depending on who made the console and what its primary use is. As far as inserting a compressor on your preamp that is what that jack is for or an eq more often the not you would want your compressor after the insert and after the final stage of the preamp so I would say that insert is more for an EQ then anything else.

Chris Church

Ahh - when in doubt RTFM!

The 1/4” TRS Insert jack (Tip=SEND and Ring=RETURN), will allow you to add an effects loop directly into the signal path of the 386. This insertion point is located after the tube section and prior to the output section. This insertion positioning is ideal for adding external effects such as a compressor or an EQ to the analog and digital output sections.

Still a little unclear...

[Chuck]

I have made special jacks for this purpose that short tip to ring on the 1/4" stereo plugs. They tap off that short and go out to a standard mono 1/4" plug tip. Connect the sheild at both ends and you are set. This is the best way to accomplish what you want to do. Unless of course you want to put an RCA end on it rather than the mono 1/4" connector.

[Church-Audio]

Thats a good idea you just have to remember that some times its a good idea to stick a 100 ohm resistor in series with your connection to your recorder this will help with the unbalanced cable run in a op amp driven insert jack.

Chris Church

I have made special jacks for this purpose that short tip to ring on the 1/4" stereo plugs. They tap off that short and go out to a standard mono 1/4" plug tip. Connect the sheild at both ends and you are set. This is the best way to accomplish what you want to do. Unless of course you want to put an RCA end on it rather than the mono 1/4" connector.

[mmmatt]

There is some bad advice in this thread...  You can use your insert to add 2 more channels, however you will be using the tip and not the ring.  When tapping the insert (to pull a signal FROM a console), you use the ring.  By making a shorted trs cable, you would be pushing a signal at the in AND out at the same time... not good, and I'm pretty sure this spells feedback on most inserts.  By hanging a cable 1/2 way out of the jack (I recomend NOT doiing this incase it gets bumped) you will be pushing a signal into the out... not good and useless.
     To add a 2nd stereo signal you can simply use a t/s (mono or unbalanced) 1/4" cable pushed all the way in.  Keep in mind that you will have to keep your line level source at a max of -3db (same with your mics) and you will have no ability to mix the level of the return feed.  An inexpensive line mixer would give you some control over the feed so you could mix it...

Matt

[mmmatt]

Here is a stupid question why do you need to go thru the preamp if you have control over the send on the console?
Why not go into the recording device directly? Is it because you are mixing mics as well? if so why not just use a small mixer and mix the signal togeather into the recording device?

matrix in taping  means mics + 2chan board

I'm not saying you can't hang the jack Chris, I'm just saying that that is how you tap the send NOT the return, and you are risking a bump, and it won't work.  Just push a mono plug all the way in and you are golden in this case.  Yes many consoles have sep in/out returns... midas, yamaha, and some crest consoles FME, and I'm sure there are others.  Not typically on a 2 chan pre though.  With my small Mackie board I can not use a shorted trs jack to tap the return.  It cancels itself out or shuts itself down.  However I comonly use a shorted trs for taping the send.
     It may be true you have lots of field experience in FOH and maybe some in recording, but when it comes to taping you would be best to occasionally listen to the people here as we specialize in workarounds that most studio guys, and foh guys don't know.  Open you mind and your ears some Chris and quit being such a know-it-all.

Matt

**edit** Chris deleted his posts so my rant is no longer relavant