Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: jbrauer on October 10, 2003, 12:45:39 PM
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Pros? Cons?
I'll mostly be taping at smaller clubs and occasionally at Red Rocks. Any help appreciated.
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as little as i'v used mine (one show so far) I love 'em. But for a few 100 $$ extra you can get the TL's, and those have switchable polars and hypercard could be very helpful in a small club. But overall VERY good bang for your buck! ;D ;D ;D
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On what? Guitar/bass cabs, absolutely.
Overhead, certainly cool but probably a bit feedback-prone.
JP
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On what? Guitar/bass cabs, absolutely.
Overhead, certainly cool but probably a bit feedback-prone.
JP
I assumed it would be for the normal stereo configs (xy, ortf ect)
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For those techniques you can't beat SD condensers. Well, decent ones of course...
I find the Viennas to be pretty amazing for acoustic sources, in AB config. (spaced pair).
Like, you get the instrument, a bit of room, and a wee bit of that elusive "produced sound". The Hamburgs sound "woodier", if that makes any sense.
I like the Viennas off-axis response better.
JP
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you do alot of studio stuff JP?
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I ran the LE's for the first time at Mike Gordon Wed night. I really like them so far!! Just about the perfect mic for my ears!! IMHO there is VERY little overemphasis on lows or highs...basically a very natual sounding mic.
As was mentioned...for a little more you can get a pair of TL's with switchable patters (already thinking about those :P ) which gives you a lot more options. As for the LD vs SD mic thing.....I always run from the ts so size isn't an issue. I would think the only time you'd NEED SD mics is if you were trying to run FOB/stealth.
If ya want to take a listen to my gordo tapes shoot me a PM.
RatDog tonight!
:)
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Well, I do run a recording studio... http://www.ibelgique.com/nohype
JP
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Just got the email confirm, will be delivered on Tuesday...
Brian, I'd love to get that Gordon SHN.
find me here: http://db.etree.org/twatts
Terry
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For those techniques you can't beat SD condensers. Well, decent ones of course...
I have to dissagree big time. I have used U89's on a guitar cabinet with awesome results. (stereo cabinet, two U89's XY, Fender strat, blues guitarist).
Also, LD's as drum overheads and on acoustic guitars are simply the shit if you use the right ones. A LD, ADK LE on the sound hole of an acoustic guitar with a SD, MG300 on the neck.... butter.
-JB
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sound woodier? hmmm, what does wood sound like, stiff and hard? ;D
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<I have to dissagree big time. I have used U89's on a guitar cabinet with awesome results. (stereo cabinet, two U89's XY, Fender strat, blues guitarist).>
You probably did. Happy for you. But, err... Did you know that the capsule used in the U89 is NOT a 1" but a smaller capsule; JUST BECAUSE THE MIC IS BIG DOESN'T MEAN THE CAPSULE IS LARGE! Check the Neumann Pinboard for more info.
Also, the question refered to typical XY, AB, ORTF etc. techniques where, I'm sorry to say, the smaller, the better. Can't bend the laws of physics... Off axis reflections from the body and grille are bad; large capsules suck off-axis. SD capsules are ALWAYS more linear on and off axis. I'm not saying we should only be using SD's, but I certainly prefer using a SD pair when I'm doing critical stereo recording, especially from a distance. the difference in off axis coloration is huge.
But I'm not saying it can't be done, or that it doesn't sound good.
Of course, you might actually like the funky off axis response of LDs. I do like it on some things, but mainly pop/rock stuff, not classical etc.
JP
Also, LD's as drum overheads and on acoustic guitars are simply the shit if you use the right ones. A LD, ADK LE on the sound hole of an acoustic guitar with a SD, MG300 on the neck.... butter.
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<sound woodier? hmmm, what does wood sound like, stiff and hard? >
AH! I should've been more careful ;O)
I find that some mics, like the KM84, tend to have a very "organic" sound, while things like (modified) Oktava 012's have a sort of slightly "hard" edge to them. They're both good, but I prefer the 84; clients usually pick my modified Oktava's though! I really like the 012s on drums; the 84 sounds a bit "soft" here, by comparison of course.
When I say that a mic is "woodier" I mean that the mic will typically enhance the natural body of the source compared to a more neutral, revealing mic.
Yeah, I know it's all very subjective.
JP
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"A LD, ADK LE on the sound hole of an acoustic guitar with a SD, MG300 on the neck.... butter."
I like pairs of ADK Hamburgs or Viennas depending on the guitar, but a very usual setup for me is an 84 and a 451/metal CK1 in AB, a foot away from the guitar, mics about a foot away and // from each other, 84 on bridge, 451 around 14th fret. A bit retro but sounds really cool, solo or in a mix...
JP
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I AM GOD OF STEREO RECORDING TECHNIQUES! BOW DOWN AND KISS MY BUTT!
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I AM GOD OF STEREO RECORDING TECHNIQUES! BOW DOWN AND KISS MY BUTT!
YES ALMIGHTY ONE!
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:thinking:
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Proud new father of beautiful twins...
They arrived today, very nice... Can't wait to try them at Lake Trout this friday!
Terry
ADK 51LE>UA5>NJ3
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+T....I've run mine ywice so far and love them. Let me know what ya think of them with the ua-5!
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Will do... Brain, I'm guessing the bass rolloff switch is "off" when it is set to: ---- and "on" when set to: /---
Correct???
T
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Terry, I think I have figured out a way to run both our mics if you dont get a t-bar in time for friday, we'll also bring the xtra XLR's.
I'll give you a ring tonight from home
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Slic Nic:
I was able to borrow T-Bar, Clamp and Mic Cables last night from Jamie Lycos... All I need is space on your stand.
Terry
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"I'm guessing the bass rolloff switch is "off" when it is set to: ---- and "on" when set to: /---"
Correct indeed.
Hey, would you guys like a 3-way pad (0/-9/-18 dBs) on the future Vienna and Hamburg versions?
And BTW, the Hamburg is coming out soon, fresh out of Beta!
JP
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I'll second Moke in that we usually have to make do with what we have. Are you in a position where our feedback will be of use....or is this more of a rhetorical question? Though I doubt I would use it it's to be asked! ;)
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I like that idea! and i also like being asked what i would like +T
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Ok, after matrixing a bluegrass band Thursday (Grass Cats, some echo from distance of mics from stage), only mics friday night opening band (awesome) and matrixing Lake Trout same night (whoopass), I can officially say:
I LOVE MY ADK 51s LEs!
I've be walking around giggly all weekend...
My only complaint: anything as friggin' badass as those mics needs to glow in the dark or something...
Terry
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hehe...I think I'm putting in a order for the TL's today.
Moke....do the TL's pull a full 48v phantom power?
just checking.
also, I can find ANY detailed specs on the TL's(like a graph of each polar patterns response, etc)
anyone know where these specs are?
do the TL's have a -10db pad or bass roll-off?
sorry for what may be stupid questions, but these arent listed on adkmic.com or anywhere else I've searched
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Hehehe...
Yeah, Luvean (Nic) came and visited me this weekend and we taped Lake Trout together... Thanks for the help Nic!
But yeah, he was eyeing those ADKs REEEEAL hard the next day...
I may be mistaken, but doesn't JasonB use TLs???
T
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"Are you in a position where our feedback will be of use?"
Well, yes...
JP
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Unfortunately, I haven't received a TL sample yet.
My advice is to only use 48V Phantom supplies of the highest quality and reliability.
I think the TL has a Zener reg. for the head amp but I don't know about the capsule ploarisation... In any case, using a supply under 45 V is asking for trouble...
We're working on getting meaningful polar and frequency plots.
Soon!
JP
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"Are you in a position where our feedback will be of use?"
Well, yes...
JP
Sorry about that....I hadn't seen the other thread and didn't know you have a bit to do with the new ADK mics. :P
So many questions I'd like to ask.......I'd better whittle down my list to just a couple........
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Go ahead, I don't mind, I check this forum often as it's one of the few forums where I get to ask actual sound engineers what the hell's going on in the field...
And since we have upgraded versions coming up... and stuff that I can't tell you about just yet...
So yes, your opinion does matter.
JP
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JP Gerard,
Do you work for ADK???
Terry
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Ah... I'd like that too... but so far, the only solution would be a modular range based on the SC1. I have a proto here, and after taking the capsule apart, cleaning it thoroughly and making sure everything is nice and clean (and dry) inside, the results are acceptable. Not a great tone, but a surprisongly transparent sounding unit. So there's hope. I'd rather use a transformer output too.
I'd rather use another capsule, but then you know how that goes, price goes up, sales go down, Larry not happy, JP not happy.
JP
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Hey Terry;
Let's just say that at the moment I work WITH ADK. And I'm quite happy!
It's nice to make a difference. Just give us a few months, we have some mid-market models in the pipeline that will surely get you interested.
JP
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And check out the new online catalogue!
www.adkmic.com
JP
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My notes here:
http://www.adkmic.com/specs/designersnotes/dn_Vienna.html
As always, feel free to Email me yadayadayada...
JP
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JP,
Word! Hook us up with some Team ADK t-shirts or hats or something... So we can represent... I'm tired of seeing Team Schoeps and Team Neumann stuff...
Terry
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been playin with the vienna for 3 weeks now.nice sonic footprint and upper mid texture run through drs-2,nice match for rnb female vocals( add some high shelf for more air for our particular singer)
been getting some nice flow,placing the this mic 1-2-inch from trace elliot 712 cab,via hamptone silverbox. ( usually always grab microtech m295 with added low shelf),sound is big..but not "boxy"
overall nice mic for the money.at least what i paid( ho ho ho)
a nice plus would be added clarity and resolution in the lower freq.area.
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"a nice plus would be added clarity and resolution in the lower freq.area. "
Know what you're saying, but that would mean getting rid of the Xfo, and the Xfo is there mainly because the slight "haze" around the low end is part of the sound that made many mics "classics". The V and H were never meant to be analytical mics, but attitude/character mics.
For big, bold and precise bass, the TL is cool. But the sound is completely different...
BTW!
The new batch of Viennas and Hamburgs will be using a new FET (the same FET I use in MY mics) so the mic will be quiet when the pad is switched in (the current version - still a sort of beta really- is a wee bit noisier right now with pad in).
Next year, a version with components upgrades and 2 way pads will come to the market.
Those will be exact duplicates of my mics.
Woohoo!
JP
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point taken.you have some nice work goin on.
have you played around with lundhal transformers? they are cleaner ,yet still having that oomph way down there...
im gonna plug the vienna via a midas channel strip,and see what i can get out of that combo.
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Anders, you realise that great transfos cost over 40$ a pop, right?
Sure I'd love to use Lundahl/Jensen/Sowter units, but the production cost of the mic would jump up. And if we use a better transfo, we'll need a better capsule... etc, etc.
But there will be some ADKs with fancy components coming out... soon... I've been discussing this with Larry for a few months. Stay tuned.
2004 will be really great, let me tell ya!
JP
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JP GERARD IS BAD-ASS
you had better believe that when i have extra cash to play with, i will certainly consider anything ADK, not only 'cause of the great taper recs but the fact that a rep asks, listens, and cares...
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Hello JP,
What are the differences between the older model LEs and the new Hemi LEs??? Just curious as I just figured out yesterday I have the older model...
Is it just a cosmetic change, or are there differing electronics???
Terry
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You have the wedge shaped grilles? Cool. I like them! The Hemis have a different grille, that's about it, but it's possible that some Hemis LEs have my circuit. Switching form one design to the next and changing grille shape is not as easy as it sounds. In any case they should say " A51 LETYPE VI" on the body shell.
JP
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JP..Is there a way to tell if the LEs have your circuitry by the serial numbers?? My serials are: 09143, 09144
thanks!
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Not really... I'll ask Larry though. Best way to do this is to check the sensitivity: my circuit is around 20mV/Pa, stock is around 15mV/Pa.
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JP, you awake at 5:50 AM EST?
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I do believe JP is from Europe and as such doesn't pertain to our time zone ;D
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BCostigan, your mics are stock LE's.
A bit noisy, and not as linear as could be, especially in the low end.
And yes, I'm right in the middle of Belgium.
JP
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<sound woodier? hmmm, what does wood sound like, stiff and hard? >
AH! I should've been more careful ;O)
I find that some mics, like the KM84, tend to have a very "organic" sound, while things like (modified) Oktava 012's have a sort of slightly "hard" edge to them. They're both good, but I prefer the 84; clients usually pick my modified Oktava's though! I really like the 012s on drums; the 84 sounds a bit "soft" here, by comparison of course.
When I say that a mic is "woodier" I mean that the mic will typically enhance the natural body of the source compared to a more neutral, revealing mic.
Yeah, I know it's all very subjective.
JP
Off subject a bit, but... JP:
When you speak of modified Oktava MC012's are you refering to the Scott Dorsey, Recording Magazine 09/2003, mod or another mod?
Would you mind comenting on your experience with 'modded" Oktava MC012's?
We have thread going:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=6603
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Quickly... The ones I have here are "my" mod, but I found Scott's mod and it's the same; I use different capacitor types and overspec a bit more, but same stuff really, although I definitely prefer metal glazed 1G to polarise the capsule and at the FET gate. But yeah, we basically replace all the funky stuff with good components.
I find my 012s too clean, so I replaced them with a pair of Calrec/Bridge 1050s. The 012's are very nice, as quiet as my 84, have very good headroom and are very linear when modified.
JP
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do you have any cost for the mod?
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just wanted to chime in and say how happy i have been with my 51tl's this past year. i got em about a year ago, have taped 24 shows with them, and feel they are the best mics out there for the variety of places i tape. ive run em in small clubs, warehouse venues, traditional theares, hockey rinks, and red rocks.
i would proudly wear a team adk shirt at any show.
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do you have any cost for the mod?
Todd on the thread:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=6603
Has expressed some interest in doing the mod for others. Contact him.