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Author Topic: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3  (Read 103657 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #270 on: August 29, 2023, 06:59:08 PM »
Yes that is correct for the original F8 model. The primary change with the F8N follow up model was the implementation of parallel wired rather than independent XLR and TRS inputs along with switchable Mic/Line sensitivity (and availability of phantom powering in Line-In mode).

Most modern recorders have Mic-in and Line-in passing though the same circuity, but with different sensitivity/gain.  DR-680 is the same, but more like F8N in that you can use XLR or TRS in either mode.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline jefflester

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #271 on: August 29, 2023, 07:47:49 PM »
Thanks, confirming what I thought. So if I want to do line-ins I'll just have to use XLR-TRS adapter cables. Not that a big deal, but certainly preferable not to add extra interfaces to the chain.
DPA4061 HEB -> R-09 / AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII
Line Audio CM4/Superlux S502/Samson C02/iSK Little Gem/Sennheiser E609/Shure SM57 -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII (multitracked band recordings)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #272 on: August 30, 2023, 10:42:21 AM »
Yep, that should be all you need.  The original F8 is odd in this way.  I don't know of any other recorder where the combo jacks are wired separately as Mic-in and Line-in rather than just being paralleled.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline unclehoolio

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #273 on: September 27, 2023, 08:28:49 PM »
so with the F8, is there more circuitry (i.e. a pad) in the signal path for the TRS line in vs the separate XLR mic-in?  Or other way around?  I guess same question goes for the F8N and it's XLR input.
mics:  AKG c480b (x6) + ck61, ck62, & ck63
pre:  2 x Oade m148
recorder:  Zoom F8n Pro; Tascam HD-P2 (with Oade High Definition mod)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #274 on: September 28, 2023, 09:17:36 AM »
Could tell by taking a look at the circuit diagram.  Why do you ask?  Not likely to be able to draw any conclusions from that.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline unclehoolio

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #275 on: September 28, 2023, 11:53:57 AM »
I ask b/c I'm definitely looking at running a preamp in front of recorder, so line-in input.  And my starting assumption is that whichever recorder (e.g. Zoom F6, F8n, SDmixpre #ii) has less circuitry involved in the signal path is my best choice.  Though I suppose it's safer to say whichever recorder has less noise & distortion in the signal path is the best choice.

Edit to add:  same topic being discussed contemporaneously here:  https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=203323.new;topicseen#new
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 01:01:11 PM by unclehoolio »
mics:  AKG c480b (x6) + ck61, ck62, & ck63
pre:  2 x Oade m148
recorder:  Zoom F8n Pro; Tascam HD-P2 (with Oade High Definition mod)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #276 on: September 28, 2023, 06:37:58 PM »
Yeah, that's what I was getting at - suitability for use with an external preamp won't necessarily correlate with the complexity of the circuit path. 

Yes, noise/distortion is a better, more appropriate measure.

The most fundamental/practical thing is making sure the recorder's line-in is capable of accepting the output level from the external preamp as typically used in your recording scenarios without overload. In other words, everything should work even if the external preamp is capable of producing higher output levels than the recorder's line in is capable of accepting, as long as the actual output from the preamp does not exceed the maximum input capability of the recorder.  That situation is not at all uncommon.

For example: The first small digital recorder I purchased was an Edirol R09.  Depending on what microphones I was using I would either run a Church Audio preamp in front of it for miniature microphones, or a Grace V3 preamp when I needed to provide phantom power. The line-input of the R09 can accept a maximum signal level of 0dBu, while the V3 is capable of outputs level of up to 24dBu.  That meant, given the material I was recording and the microphones I was using, I never turned the gain of the V3 up very high.
 With the R09s meters peaking where I wanted them, the meters on the V3 weren't moving that much.  But both were operating in their comfortable  a Everything worked fine.

Same would apply today if I were to run the V3 in front of the F8, although I never have.  The F8 is spec'd to accept a line-in level signal of up to +4dB, so I could use a bit more gain on the V3 than I could with the R-09, but would still need to be careful not to overdrive the F8 inputs with too hot a signal. 

The same would apply if I were running an F8N-Pro and recording in 32bit float, because the maximum input level the line-input is able to accept remains unchanged from F8 through F8N-Pro:+4dBu.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline unclehoolio

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #277 on: September 29, 2023, 01:36:20 PM »
Thanks Gutbucket, appreciate yours (and others, e.g. DSatz) excellent technical contributions to this forum!  Yes, I'm familiar with these 'matching' fundamentals, dating back to the first time my stoned ass lugged my consumer cassette deck into The Exit/In in Nashville to catch a board patch of The Grapes (anybody remember them??) circa 1990.  While I managed to scrounge up the necessary XLR>RCA cables, the pro-level (+4) line output crushed the consumer (-10) input on the tape deck.  Lesson learned the hard way.  On a positive note, my fake ID passed muster!

Switching subjects to field powering:  thanks again to you and others for the good background info.  I feel like the safest bet for powering an F8n (for normal-length concerts, 4 or 6 mic inputs, all +48v, for approx ~4hrs tops assuming opening act and headliner--not currently concerned with running all day at a festival) is to use this battery https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ME3ZH7C/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A24OIV2F0TL1K3&psc=1
and this cable https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KK8MY5U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3J2C6Y3UFHRF4&th=1.
(Note that I referenced Zoom's published list of tested batteries https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_F8_F8n_F4_Confirmed_EXT_Power_Supply_1.pdf )

Or would I be better off using the DC input jack on the back of unit, instead of hirose?  And of course, full sled of AA's in the unit as backup.
mics:  AKG c480b (x6) + ck61, ck62, & ck63
pre:  2 x Oade m148
recorder:  Zoom F8n Pro; Tascam HD-P2 (with Oade High Definition mod)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #278 on: September 29, 2023, 02:07:29 PM »
^ Love it!  Yes, The Grapes and muster passing!

I just use the coaxial power input with internal batteries as safety backup and have never had a problem with powering it that way, so I never felt the need for a hirose cable, but others will likely differ on that point.

That battery should be sufficient for the usage you describe.  I use a larger capacity Talentcell which I like for a few reasons.  It twice the thickness and presumably weight, but that's not a problem for me.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline unclehoolio

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #279 on: September 29, 2023, 02:29:03 PM »
Ok great, thanks!
mics:  AKG c480b (x6) + ck61, ck62, & ck63
pre:  2 x Oade m148
recorder:  Zoom F8n Pro; Tascam HD-P2 (with Oade High Definition mod)

Offline Datfly

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #280 on: October 10, 2023, 03:05:26 PM »
F8n Pro on sale for Prime Days at Amazon for 744.00!
350.00 off!
Mics: Schoeps MK41's - Ass't Shure & Sennheiser for stage
Pre-Amps: Naiant Tinybox 2.2 o/t 
Cables: Nbob Actives V1
Recorders: Zoom F8nPro - F3 - H6 x 3 + Tascam DR-2d x 2
Panasonic ZS100 4K X 2
Sony NX80 4K | Sony AX700 4K  X 4 Camcorders
Canon 5D MK III
Canon 300 2.8 IS II | Canon 70-200 2.8 IS II | Canon 24-70 2.8 II | Canon 16-35 4.0

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #281 on: October 10, 2023, 10:46:00 PM »
F8n Pro on sale for Prime Days at Amazon for 744.00!
350.00 off!

Wow! That's less than an F6!
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
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Acoustic Recording Techniques
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Offline unclehoolio

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #282 on: October 11, 2023, 02:03:57 AM »
F6 also on sale, $500
mics:  AKG c480b (x6) + ck61, ck62, & ck63
pre:  2 x Oade m148
recorder:  Zoom F8n Pro; Tascam HD-P2 (with Oade High Definition mod)

Online jielkade

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #283 on: October 11, 2023, 10:18:27 AM »
but not in Europ... :shrug:

Offline unclehoolio

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #284 on: October 11, 2023, 03:19:32 PM »
FWIW, Sweetwater is matching Amazon on the F8n Pro sale.

On a related note, what carry case or bag or whatever are folks using for the F8n Pro's?  I tried out the PCF8n, and don't really like it, so I'm open to all suggestions.
mics:  AKG c480b (x6) + ck61, ck62, & ck63
pre:  2 x Oade m148
recorder:  Zoom F8n Pro; Tascam HD-P2 (with Oade High Definition mod)

 

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