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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: DaryanLenz on June 14, 2003, 03:44:06 PM
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Has anyone ever tried Marc's stereo setup with their mics? If so, any thoughts. Basically the idea for thoise that don't know is to aim at the stacks with 6 or seven inches in between, thus theoretically mimicking inner ear delay. At least that is how I think he puts it.
Daryan
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yeah, i guess i've used the "nutter technique" if that's what that is...i ran my oktava's around that distance apart (6-7") pointed at the stacks (or rather pointing towards the outside of the stacks) and pulled some really nice tapes. about to go back to that config over DIN i think.
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that's my standard method,though I shoot towards the inside/middle I guess.
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At SCI in Sedona I ran DIN the first night and Marc's technique the second. I've had a few friends listen to both nights and they all agree that the first night sounds better and I tend to agree. DIN produced a smoother, tighter, well ballanced sound while Marc's produced a raw, bassy sounding tape, sounded more like being there. I really like both recordings but the first night just seems more pleasing to my ears although I do like that raw sound of the second night especially during a good jam. I can see how people would prefer Marc's way though. Its even hard for me to admit that the first night sounds better while the second sounds like being there, doesn't seem right. Oh well.
And to be exact, it was DIN at about 80-85 degrees and Marc's was pointed just outside the stacks at about 9". If any body wants a listen I will take b+p requests for the shn's.
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I would like to hear, but do you have a way I could just grab it from you or have you upload it to my server?
Daryan
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well, I'm on a dial-up so the best I could do is mp3's in the middle of the night. Sorry man, should have DSL soon, just need a damn job.
Also, if someone is in Denver with a fast connection/server I could maybe get the shn's in the mail today and you would get them tomorrow. Just a thought...
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quantegy, i'm in boulder, can upload shn's to the cotapers server or anywhere...pm me for an address, i'd like to get those shows also as some of my friends were there.
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does someone live in the denver area???? come on guyz, i know theres a million of ya...... 8)
bean
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Alright, I sent them to Simp-Dawg. The postman said there was a good chance it would be there tomorrow. Thanks for the help Simp-Dawg and hope everyone enjoys the shows.
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SUITE...+T quantegy.... 8)
bean
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... basically is to aim at the stacks with 6 or seven inches in between
I thought his method was to aim at the "outsides" of the stacks.......?
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Yeah that's right. I thought it was 8"-12" apart too. That's what I did.
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i'll ask marc and see what he has to say about his technique...and as soon as i get those shows from quantegy i'll upload them to the cotapers server here, and anywhere else you guys want them! pm me with your server info and i will do my best to get them to you asap.
fyi, our little cotapers server is blossoming into quite the repository for colorado shows and elsewhere...check out cotapers.org (http://cotapers.org) to see what's up on it...unfortunately i can't really give out logins to the masses here (also it's not my server, just some friends') but anything on bit torrent is more than welcome to you all, every few days it seems there is something new up. perhaps we can get these cheese shows on bt for everyone!
go team rocky mtns!
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Hi All,
I'm just about turning red (Blush)--a technique named after me?
--On my knees--I'm not worthy... : )
Anyway, here is the excerpt from our website, http://www.sonicsense.com/micplace.htm that I guess folks are referring to:
"The compromise can take on the following form. By aiming each microphone to the outer edges of its own respective side of the P.A. system (left to left and right to right), and spacing the microphones 8-12 inches apart on the horizontal plane, the feeling of stereo can still be captured while reducing the ambient characteristics of the room and improving clarity of the recording. The included angle will naturally be a result of the distance from the source and will usually end up between 70 and 90 degrees. As this narrower angle deviates from the optimal angle of incidence addressed in the ORTF technique, the spacing from left-to-right must be wider to prevent overlap of the polar pattern of each microphone. Otherwise, the image will become too narrow."
I would seldom actually aim directly at the array but to the outside edges with hypers and somewhat wider with cardioids. As stated, the more I like the sound of the room, the wider I would go, up until hitting the 110 degree ORTF placement. Still, since many rooms are less than desirable, I'd rather aim closer to the P.A. than the walls (like 110 degrees would cause) when I am back in the taping section.
I hope this clarifies a bit.
Happy Recording Everybody,
Marc
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+T to marc for clarifying that :coolguy:
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I guess I've been using "the Nutter Technique" since I began taping. He was the one that explained it to me since he sold me my first set of mics. This was a long time ago. Many sets of mics, pres, a/d, later, I have found that this technique still gives me the best results. After taping many shows, I started to just get a feel of what the room should sound like and set my mics up accordingly. WSP chicago this year, I used my "general feel for the room" technique and produced a very good sounding tape. The next night I ran DIN and didn't like the results as much. I've always used an akg t bar with all of my mics. But since I've gone from 480s to MBHOs to KM140s to 4021s, the spacing of my caps has become narrower and narrower. My included angle seems to be getting wider and wider but it really varies on the venue. i guess what I am trying to say is that there is no configuration that will always give you consistant results. Nutter's config opened my mind to that. Experience will help everybody make better tapes, not just rules. I have made a lot of shitty tapes, but they seem to keep getting better and better.
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I think Simp-Dawg has those shows up somewhere now. Well, at least one of them. I deleted the email and forgot the site (cotapers.com or something) so hopefully he will chime in with the details when its all ready. The shows are:
sci03-5-24
sci03-5-25
Thanks again Simp-Dawg. :clapping:
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:coolguy:
no problem...here is the link to the first night. i will upload the second night tonight and hopefully we can put that on bit torrent as well.
http://cotapers.org/BT/sci03-5-24.shnf.torrent (http://cotapers.org/BT/sci03-5-24.shnf.torrent)
:yahoo:
i was listening to the first night just earlier and i thought it sounded nice...looking forward to sitting down in front of the second night with the nutter technique.
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2nd night is up now as well, would have had it going yesterday morning but the server crapped out over night and i couldn't finish the upload till i got home last night. but it's up now! enjoy all!
http://cotapers.org/BT/sci2003-05-25.shnf.torrent (http://cotapers.org/BT/sci2003-05-25.shnf.torrent)
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hmmm....and the whole time I've been calling it ATS (at the stacks) :P That's my usual approach...esp with hypers. I must admit...Nutter Technique sounds a lot better than just At the stacks ;D
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outdoors, i really like ortf....but indoors, it just gets too boomy, so i have been using 90d for up close and "pointed" farther back, however, nutter technique sounds better than pointed, yet, my distance is closer than 6-8in, i use the stereo bar and adjust the angle and point outside the stacks, imagine pointing at the space of air about 10ft from the stack, thats where i am sometimes, just gotta base it on the size of the room and the sound of the room, and where i set up. it is part science, part technique, and part crapshoot sometimes. heh
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well,as most nuemann owners who own the STH100 to run their caps active know,you don't have much of a choice as to aiming 'em. your best shot is to get as center between the stacks as you can.
when I run the full bodied mics up top I usually space them 6-8" cm apart and aim to the outside,as said by a few others above this has produced a good consistant sound in my tapes.
I will experiment when I'm taping something like DTB or something along those lines or my friend's band the Duk Tan since I know I will most likely tape over it.
so it seems the "marc nutter technique" is tried and true.
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Has anyone had a chance to download and listen to these shows? I'm interested to hear some feedback even if its bad.... :boxing:
Thanks
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rabhan wrote:
>i use the stereo bar and adjust the angle and point outside the stacks, imagine pointing at the space of air about 10ft >from the stack,
Nice description. I'm not sure I've conveyed this well at times.
>just gotta base it on the size of the room and the sound of the room, and where i set up. it is part science, part
>technique, and part crapshoot sometimes. heh
Never have truer words been uttered!
Happy Recording,
Marc
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thanks for the compliments marc, it all started bc i bought a D8 from you, and look at me know! +T to you!