Topic: R-44 MS playback problem

[pstokes]

Is this a design flaw or have I got a fault?

Playing back using ch 3 & 4 only with MS effect IN results in mono output on Headphones and on Line out.
Doing the same thing with ch 1 & 2 - no problem and an MS recording plays back in true stereo - as it should.

Have spoken to Edirol about this but they have'nt come back to me.

Anyone had this?

Philip

[Todd R]

Sorry, I really can't help.  I've recorded MS on ch1+2 and played back both with line out and headphone out with the MS playback decoding with no problem.

I think I'll be running MS again tomorrow, so I can run the MS channels on 3+4 and test it out.  I'll report back later.

[NOLAfishwater]

so can the R-44 decode the MS so it saves as a normal stereo pair?

[Todd R]

Yes, MS decoding is part of the effects package.  All effects can be applied to playback or recording. 

There's not much info on it in the manual, so I don't know that I'd want to try then MS decode during field recording.  But for either playback or recording, there are two parameters you can set for the MS decoding:  width (0-100) and level (0-120).  Width of the stereo seems obvious, though I wouldn't know how the settings stack up to what it produces.  And I'm not sure about level -- I'd guess overall level of the decoded signal, since I doubt it would be the level of the mid signal as that would affect width.

For the width, maybe it is 0 = 0% width = all mid, no side; and 100 = 100% = all side, no mid.  I guess that would make sense, though as you change the width, you change the effective pattern of the two "virtual" decoded mics.

[Ozpeter]

A user reported to me offline that he'd had an MS problem which sounded a bit like yours, though I don't remember him mentioning 3/4 - I'd assumed he'd used 1/2, which is what I always use for MS, though I apply the effect on record not playback (otherwise it sounds rather odd when recording).  I'll check with mine on 3/4 later.

[Ozpeter]

Indeed, I've checked this, as has another user, and there is definitely a firmware bug which stuffs recording on 3&4 with MS effect in use on those channels.  There's no problem with 1&2.  This would only be a disaster if you recorded with the effect on.  Playing back with the effect will mess with the playback in the R-44, but would be ok in your DAW (if you did the MS to XY conversion there).  I'll email Roland about this and I'd very much hope that they will fix it with a firmware update, especially as it can result in loss of customer audio.

[Ozpeter]

Edirol Australia replied to my email within about 5 minutes, to let me know they had forwarded my report to R & D already and would report back - well, that's a good start anyway!

[pstokes]

Ozpeter
Thank you so much for confirming its a bug. I'm very glad that it isn't a problem with my particular machine. Yes, no problem when using DAW, but on site it is essential for me to be able to listen to both my MS pairs with the Edirol alone.

[Ozpeter]

I've now heard that Edirol R&D are fixing this bug and a firmware upgrade will be available in the next couple of months.

[Ozpeter]

Another heads-up re R-44 bugs - this time it concerns using the pre-record feature and effects.

If you use the MS effect when recording, and you use the pre-record buffer, the content of the buffer when written to the recording does not go through the effects. So the stereo image suddenly jumps to its correct alignment at the point where the recording switches over from the pre-record buffer to real time. For example, if you have the pre-record buffer set to 11 seconds, the first 11 seconds of the recording will have incorrect MS dematrixing, and then the remainder will be correct.

I've not tried other effects to see whether all are affected in this way, but it's distinctly possible.

Once again, I've put in a bug report to Edirol. Hopefully this can be addressed with a firmware fix, but it's possible that the pre-record buffer is hardwired the wrong side of the effects, in which case it won't be fixable...

[Ozpeter]

I've now heard from Edirol that the problem with effects not being applied to pre-record buffer audio will also be fixed in the upcoming firmware release.