Topic: Zoom H4n competitors?

[sicksugar]

Hi,
i'm new to the forum. i've decided to get a portable recorder for recording ambience and sounds for movies and for recording live performances. So far it seems the battle is between the Zoom H4n and this forum's favorite, the Edirol R-09HR.
My impressions have been that Zoom is not as professional, gives lower quality recordings, and has some bugs and problems. However, it's main advantage is its ability to record from two sources at the same time.

My question is: are there any other recorders at this price range (up to $350) that allow recording from more than one source? can the edirol do it (internal and external mics together?). Is the Edirol's quality, specs and features worth not having the multi-source recording?
And how would you compare the Edirol with the new Tascam DR-07? is the Edirol's only advantage the XLR input?

Finally, does anyone have any experience using any of these recorders with the Core Sound low-cost binaural microphones? Any impressions? would you recommend getting new better mics for stealth recording of gigs?

Thanks,

NH

[cybergaloot]

This one came up in another thread. I don't know much about it but it looks like heads up competiton for the H4n: http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-100.html

[vegas06]

The Edirol R09 can only record from one source at a time.  So you either have to record via the 1/8 mic/line inputs or by the built in internal mics.

As far as I know the Zoom H4n is the only sub $400 recorder that has multiple input capability (internal mic and XLR inputs).
If you want a recorder from Edirol that has multi channel/input recording then you have to step up to the Edirol R44, which records 4 tracks via it's 4 XLR inputs.  But you can also record 2 channels via teh internal mics along with 2 of the XLR inputs.

The Zoom recorders aren't bad for most uses, but they have fallen short in the past with it's built in pre amps.  Supposedly the new new H4n has improved low noise pre amps, and reports seem to back that up.  But how quiet they are compared to better units from Tascam, Edirol, Marantz etc. is still to be seen, or rather heard by me.

Suprisingly I might be selling off my Edirol R44, as I am not getting as much usage out of it that I would like.  I find myself using smlller recorders liek the Marantz PMD620, Edirol R09, Zoom H2 more so.  I may be selling off the 4 track R44 for a Zoom H4n.  I know the fidelity won't be nearly as good as the Edirol R44, but the smaller form factor and ability to record via XLR inputs and built in mics are much more appealing to me for my video/audio needs.  Which I normally like to record live events that I shoot (weddings/stage etc.) by attaching multiple mics to a mic stand and micing a source, like a PA system, and also use a stereo mic to record audience noise.  The H4n suits my needs better, due to it's smaller size in that I can attach the recorder facing the audience to record crowd reaction via it's built in mics, while using 2 Rode M3 mics to mic the PA or band for a 4 track mix.  For the R44 I have to leave the recorder in a bag attached at the base of the mic stand and run cables to my inputs.  This setup takes me much more time to setup and leaves me less time to focus on my video production.

[cybergaloot]

This one came up in another thread. I don't know much about it but it looks like heads up competition for the H4n: http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-100.html

It looks like this unit can take line in, external mics, or use either pair of the internal mics but only one of those options at a time.

That said, I love my R-44.

[vegas06]

This one came up in another thread. I don't know much about it but it looks like heads up competition for the H4n: http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-100.html

It looks like this unit can take line in, external mics, or use either pair of the internal mics but only one of those options at a time.

That said, I love my R-44.

Where do you see mention of dual input capability.
If the Dr-100 can record via internal mics and XLR inputs at the same time, then I guarantee that I would lean towrards the DR-100 over the H4n in a second.  As I trust Tascam's ability to make a well made low noise product with quality pre amps.  Can't say that I trust Zooms track record on this front.

[cybergaloot]

This one came up in another thread. I don't know much about it but it looks like heads up competition for the H4n: http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-100.html

It looks like this unit can take line in, external mics, or use either pair of the internal mics but only one of those options at a time.

That said, I love my R-44.

Where do you see mention of dual input capability.
If the Dr-100 can record via internal mics and XLR inputs at the same time, then I guarantee that I would lean towrards the DR-100 over the H4n in a second.  As I trust Tascam's ability to make a well made low noise product with quality pre amps.  Can't say that I trust Zooms track record on this front.

I said "only one of those options at a time." No four track capability I can see. That was my point.

It resembles the H4n in that it has XLR connectors and internal mics but is limited to using one or the other, not both. Too bad they didn't make it four track. Its also limited in the range of sampling rates.

[vegas06]

That's what I thought as well.  Bummer. The DR-100 would probably have been a slam dunk if it allowed 4 track capability.  Kind of sucks that Zoom seems to be the only one offering 4 track capability in a small form factor.  Wonder when the big boys (Marantz, Tascam, Edirol (not counting the R44 which is small but not nearly as small as the Zooms), Sony) will wake up and design a small 4 track recorder along the lines of the Zooms.

[cybergaloot]

Well, there's always this mod for the H2 but I wouldn't recommend it:
http://the-palm-sound.blogspot.com/2008/09/make-zoom-h2-into-4-track.html

[flintstone]

"the Zoom H4n is the only sub $400 recorder that has multiple input capability
(internal mic and XLR inputs)."

The Zoom H4n can record two pairs of external mics as well.  There's a 1/8-inch
TRS jack on the back of the recorder that can be used to plug in a pair mics.
When you do so, the internal mic pair is shut off.  So one pair of mics can be
attached to the XLR inputs, and a second pair to the 1/8-inch input.

Flintstone

[sicksugar]

Well, so what should i get?
Edirol / Zoom / Tascam?
I'm completely confused...

[heyitsmejess]

Well, there's always this mod for the H2 but I wouldn't recommend it:
http://the-palm-sound.blogspot.com/2008/09/make-zoom-h2-into-4-track.html

if i could pay someone to do that for me, i would do it.

personally, im saving for the h4n...its what i want AND in my low budget price range

[nickee]

if i could pay someone to do that for me, i would do it.

personally, im saving for the h4n...its what i want AND in my low budget price range

Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't the resistors in that mod only attenuate the line signal to suit the mic inputs of the zoom. I didn't pay that much attention during the video nor do I remember much of that analog electronics class I took ten years ago. In that case you could just make two special cables that attenuate the signal and keep the warranty on your recorder. Not as elegant but easier. If you used a soldering iron you could probably make on yourself.

[cybergaloot]

Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't the resistors in that mod only attenuate the line signal to suit the mic inputs of the zoom. I didn't pay that much attention during the video nor do I remember much of that analog electronics class I took ten years ago. In that case you could just make two special cables that attenuate the signal and keep the warranty on your recorder. Not as elegant but easier. If you used a soldering iron you could probably make on yourself.

Two resistors for attenuation but coupled through a capacitor to the main circuit, if I remember correctly. You'd still be running through the H2's preamps. That's about where my electronics knowledge runs out. But two cables wont work. The external mic and line in ports can only be used one at a time and they both switch off the internal mics. No four channel that way. If you just want to pull a soundboard you can simply run line in, I've done it several times with mine. But to pull four channels from external sources you'd have to modify the unit, killing the warranty. The warranty probably only good for 90 days anyway, as with most consumer electronics. I haven't checked though.

If somebody wanted to try this and make it more elegant looking, maybe get two 1/8 TRS connectors with the switch built in (I think Switchcraft makes those) and use them instead of the RCA connectors. Then built the resistor/capacitor circuit into your cable. Well, maybe you could still put that in the case. What would be better would be tying the connectors in after the preamps but that would involve messing with the main circuit board and may just not be possible. There are cheap refurb H2's available if somebody wanted to try it and not be out too much money.

There must be some serious drawbacks because Chris Church looked into modding the unit for four external mics at one point and decided it wasn't worth it. Not quite the same idea though. I seem to remember that he thought the preamps were just too noisy and powering the external mics then becomes an issue.

What would be cool is if they made the unit to run two external mics and two line in channels while doing away with entire internal mic section but with better preamps and power for the external mics. Then you would have a very small, very portable four channel recorder for matrix's. Hmmm ...