Topic: Crown SASS-P MK II

[leddy]

I am curious if this Polarity issue can be fixed in Audacity, and of course I would LOVE to find out how this is happening.

I don't know Audacity, but I'd be shocked if you could not fix it there.  It's a pretty basic function.

[colors]

Thanks, that actually a band of mine, which turned into a jam session.  Is the loudness you percieve due to the instruments positioning?  I have notched input level on my edirol so it should be even, but the sax and trumpet and are pretty close to the mic (~3 ft) so could that be the volume difference? I recorded this with another set of mics, but this sample is just the crown. 

Well it seems there must be a problem with the mic then...would I be wrong to assume so?

[leddy]

Not sure the best way to test.  I guess I would split a mono test tone among the channels of R44 and see if any are inverted relative to the others.  If they were all ok, then I'd suspect the mic.  It would be easy to fix. 

[colors]

I'm going to take it out tonight with a different pre and recorder for some out-jazz.  I'll have samples tomorrow.

[SmokinJoe]

I am curious if this Polarity issue can be fixed in Audacity, and of course I would LOVE to find out how this is happening.

To fix in audacity is really easy. A friend of mine had mics wired out of phase and he did this to every recording in about 2 seconds.  Eventually we fixed his wiring.
- open file in audacity
- on Left side of the wave form, by the filename, is a little drop down triangle.... "Split Stereo Track"
- highlight the left (upper) side alone, since we don't know "which side" is backwards, it doesn't really matter, just pick one and flip it.
- Select menu option "Effect" then "Invert"... wait a second... done.
- In the same drop down on the left "Make Stereo Track".
- That's it... you are done.

[Shadow_7]

One caveat, you have to have both tracks selected to make stereo track after all that.  Click one, hold the shift down and click the other.  Or goto Edit -> Select -> All

I have Avenson STO-2's which are very similar to the sass.  I've thought about upgrading to the Sass for a better low end a couple of times.  But I like being able to adjust the aim of each mic.  I've seen the sass mounted to a ceiling in several places.  One of the local band rooms has it permanently mounted to the ceiling.  It's a bit BIG IMO, but a nice mic.

The inversion is evident in the waverform on that wav file.  You can literally see it's mirror image like attributes.  Could be the mic, could be the cable, could be the recorder. 

[Charlie Miller]

My friend Bob Cogswell has been using the Crown PZM mics for over 10 years and loves them. I've done some 4 mic mixes with him and they sound great.

[taperboy]

I have had and used almost continuously the SASS PZM since 1990. The first use was in taping the Grateful Dead in a middle or rear
of a room situation. I offset the mic's weakness in that situation with a pair of tube mics, initially a borrowed set of AKG 1000s which
were combined with the Crown through an inexpensive Radio Shack passive mixer. I eventually moved away from that style of recording as I moved into smaller rooms and learned more about mic placement. I now place the Crown on the stage of any venue
I'm recording in and augment it with eith a stereo sbd or a multi-track recording using a split snake for the stage inputs coupled with
the stereo signal from the Crwon. I value the mic's stereo imaging very highly, but I am occasionally pleasantly reminded that the mic
can stand alone and deliver surprising fidelity. In a recent case, while recording a band in a small room (150 max), the sbd was not
sent during the first set and I had only the stage. For the second set, the sbd was sent and when I compared the two sets later,
expecting to be disappointed with the lack of vocals and instrument support from the sbd in the 1st set, I felt that the resulting 2-track was nearly as good as the full 2nd set 4-track. It was easily good enough to upload to LMA and I thanked Crown again for
building such a good mic.

[Gutbucket]

..Here's a sample from a few weeks ago, a free improvising trio.  I put the Crown on the very front of the stage floor, everyone is going acoustic, no EQ. 
http://www.alanmunshower.com/dump/sass.mp3

Love that improv!  Can you post more of it?  
Great application for this mic, I dig the sound and imaging. [edit- after correcting polarity and balance]

Agreed on the channel inversion and level imbalance.  As a simple way of checking, I insert a simple M/S plugin tool in my software player- typically there should be more bass apparent in the solo'd mid channel (the sum) vs. the solo'd side channel (the difference).  In this case the solo'd side channel (L-R) had more apparent bass, implying that one channel had inverted polarity. 

[Charlie Miller]

I have had and used almost continuously the SASS PZM since 1990. The first use was in taping the Grateful Dead in a middle or rear
of a room situation. I offset the mic's weakness in that situation with a pair of tube mics, initially a borrowed set of AKG 1000s which
were combined with the Crown through an inexpensive Radio Shack passive mixer. I eventually moved away from that style of recording as I moved into smaller rooms and learned more about mic placement. I now place the Crown on the stage of any venue
I'm recording in and augment it with eith a stereo sbd or a multi-track recording using a split snake for the stage inputs coupled with
the stereo signal from the Crwon. I value the mic's stereo imaging very highly, but I am occasionally pleasantly reminded that the mic
can stand alone and deliver surprising fidelity. In a recent case, while recording a band in a small room (150 max), the sbd was not
sent during the first set and I had only the stage. For the second set, the sbd was sent and when I compared the two sets later,
expecting to be disappointed with the lack of vocals and instrument support from the sbd in the 1st set, I felt that the resulting 2-track was nearly as good as the full 2nd set 4-track. It was easily good enough to upload to LMA and I thanked Crown again for
building such a good mic.

Here's one of the tapes you and I made many many years ago:

http://www.archive.org/details/zero2000-11-11

[illconditioned]

I have one and use it all the time.  Mine is the older SASS-P (pre MKII) and I bring it to pretty much every concert because my cables, R44 and batteries fit nicely in the case with the Crown.  I have pulled some nice recordings using just the Crown but have also paired it with SBD or spaced omnis. 
Here's a sample from a few weeks ago, a free improvising trio.  I put the Crown on the very front of the stage floor, everyone is going acoustic, no EQ. 
http://www.alanmunshower.com/dump/sass.mp3

That sounds great!  Natural and open omni sound, great image due to the SASS shape.   Damn, would love to get one of these and put some even better omni mics in it!

  Richard

[Gutbucket]

Damn, would love to get one of these and put some even better omni mics in it!

Crown sold (sells?) a verson for use with other mics.  Basically its the same SASS baffle with two holes in it to flushmount standard omnis (with the mic bodies protruding to the rear) where the PZM's would be.

Never seen one in person, but I've stumbled across photos on-line of one with DPA 4006s.

[colors]

Thanks for all the great comments guys!  This thread has been very informative and complimentary.  Double awesome!

Anyways here is a sample from last night with the SASS.  What an unbelievable 2 sets of improvised music....check this sample

http://www.alanmunshower.com/dump/sassmay11.wav