Topic: Roland R-05 newbee question

[tom.lac]

Hi all,

Sorry if I am not in the good section.
I am really a newbee in taping even if I listen for years now some shows taped by ones of this board.

Here is my question : I'd like to buy a recording gear to tape some rock (metal) concerts and the Roland R-05 seems interesting because of its price.
Is it a good choice? do you think the internal mics a sufficient? Should I also get some external mics? If I should, I have really no idea of what kind...

Thanks for your answers.

Tom

[sunjan]

If you live in the US, you can get a Sony M10 for cheaper, which is a better deal.

But my understanding is that the R-05 can be had for EUR 187 in Europe, while the M10 is retailing for 290 EUR and upwards:
http://geizhals.at/eu/a538356.html
In that case, the R-05 is probably the best value you can get on the EU market at the moment.

That is, unless you want to gamble and mail order from the US (risking additional taxes).

[tom.lac]

Thanks for your answer!

I actually live in France so the r-05 is cheaper than a Sony M10. I don't really want to spend more than 200€ for my first gear.
Do you think the internal mics a sufficient for the moment?
Or perhaps better recording gears exist...

Tom

[sunjan]

I actually live in France so the r-05 is cheaper than a Sony M10. I don't really want to spend more than 200€ for my first gear.
Do you think the internal mics a sufficient for the moment?
Or perhaps better recording gears exist...

Sufficient? Depends what quality you're used to.
The internals on the R-05 are omnis:
http://www.gearwire.com/roland-r05-proreview.html

They are probably decent mics, but if I was going to stealth and had 200 EUR on my hands, I wouldn't even consider running a handheld unit, no matter how good the internals were.

First thing, I'd get the Church combo (mics + pre), after that I'd see how much cash I had left and spend it on a recorder.
There is a crazy cheap deal right now:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139169.0

CA-9100 + CA-14 for just USD 154 + shipping.  Heck, I'm even tempted to buy this myself!
You can probably sweet talk Chris into declaring the parcel as gift, to avoid import taxes.

That gives you about EUR 65 left to spend on a recorder. Not much cash, but enough to pick up an Iriver for a start.
You can get them for EUR 70 on ebay with a bit of patience:
http://cgi.ebay.de/iRiver-H320-Zubehor-/150495658130

Granted, Iriver is only 16-bit, but you can probably sell it again for the same price once you have more cash to upgrade. They keep their resale value.

All in all, this will give you way better tapes than stealthing an R-05 with internal omnis...

[fmaderjr]

What sunjan said.

A Church mic > ST-9100 > rockboxed iRiver is capable of making incredibly good sounding recordings. You won't get that with any recorder's internal mics. A recording with the r-05's internals may even sound pretty bad, but at best not remotely comparable to the gear sunjan recommended.

[tom.lac]

thanks a lot for your answers!!

So I have to check Chris mics offers... It can finally be cheaper than I imagined

Tom

[deadwing]

Tom, first thing I'd say is have a go with the internals...see if you are happy with what it gives you.

I used the internals on my Zoom H2 for around 6 months while I was without externals and the results were really good... you have to be careful with them as they don't react as well to high SPL's as a good pair of externals will, so you need to understand about getting some space between you and the sound - stack taping with internals will probably not work great, but get some distance back and you can make some nice recordings - and I'm talking about rock/metal shows here too.

I've just bought the Roland R-05 and had a practice run with the internals on the support band a couple of nights ago- results weren't good but I think I'd left the levels way too high - using the same level with my externals for the main band came out great.

As I said at the top - try out the internals, experiment a bit at pub gigs or on support bands you aren't 'too' bothered about. My only concern now I've read this thread is that the Roland mics are omni's so these will pick up people talking around you if you aren't careful, so do your best to avoid them!!!

[fmaderjr]

The internals may do for a while if the recordings sound satisfactory to you, but not only will externals sound better, but they are much easier to stealth with. Also you can separate them for decent stereo separation, many will stand higher sound pressure levels than your internals, and you can get cardioids if you choose, which will reduce audience chatter. I would definitely get a pair when you can if you care going to be taping on a regular basis. Church Audio mics will stand high sound pressure levels and give a lot of bang for the buck. Like many small mics, they generally require a small battery box to power them for optimum performance.

[deadwing]

I wouldn't say internals are easier to stealth with.. The H2 in your shirt pocket with no wires is an absolute breeze to stealth with!!! The rear set of mics on the H2 give a really nice, wide sound too, and they are cardoids.

[fmaderjr]

I wouldn't say internals are easier to stealth with.. The H2 in your shirt pocket with no wires is an absolute breeze to stealth with!!! The rear set of mics on the H2 give a really nice, wide sound too, and they are cardoids.

Well whatever works for you and makes you happy with the recordings. It's a hobby after all.

But most people will find it easier to stealth with externals if they are shooting for the highest quality recording they can get. It would be easy to accidentally brush the mics yourself when they are in your pocket and make some horrible noises. Plus most everyone agrees you want to get your mics as high as possible for optimum sound, so a shirt pocket is definitely not optimum position. That's why I say it easier to stealth with externals. You can get the mics higher without having to hold your recorder up in the air.

And good external mics will usually sound better too, though I must admit that the H2 mics do sound pretty good.

[tom.lac]

I think I will try with the internals first?

But are you sure that the internals of the r-05 are omni? on the Roland Japan site they seems to be cards (even if I don't read Japanese at all!!)
http://www.roland.co.jp/products/jp/R-05/index.html
http://www.roland.co.jp/products/jp/R-05/images/freq_L.jpg

Tom

[fmaderjr]

They look like the internals of the R-09 & R-09HR which are omnis.

Most on board mics that are cards kind of look directional, like the Sony PCM-D50 or the Zoom H4.

I'd be shocked if they were cards.

[aaronji]

They look like omnis, with the apparent directionality in the polar patterns due to the way the mics are housed (blocking sound from certain directions)...

EDIT:  Yes, omnis.  http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/r-series_brochure.pdf  From this brochure, it looks like you get more of a directional effect with the R-05 than with the R-09HR...