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Author Topic: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)  (Read 4148 times)

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Offline Dubdom

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Hi All,
I wonder if you can help me with some specifics. I am recording off camera (dslr video shoot on  canon 5dmkii). I already have a small location mixer which I will continue to run my 416, sony lavaliers and my hypercardioid condenser through for the most part. I have looked at the tascam dr100, sony m10, the zoom h4n and the marantz pmd 661.
There is no point recommending more expensive decks to me right now, I can't afford them, but within that selection I have a few questions.
The Zoom has nicer sounding in built  stereo mics, so occasionally recording a bit of stereo wild track/buzz track (cars crossing left to right in the stereo image etc) becomes a quick and easy option! However I have read some concerning things about it being noisy when using external mics, having consumer line level in etc. There is an option on the Twelco mixer to output an unbalanced signal at a level 3db lower than balanced using a TA 5 connector. I could make up a couple of cables to run line level to the 1/4" inputs into the bottom of the zoom and that might solve that issue. In addition, I could even occasionally run the signal from the mixer to the 1/8" mini jack and then I free up the two connections at the bottom and hey presto(!): 4 impromptu channels (am i right!?). I don't anticipate using this option a great deal since most of my film recording is one source at a time, the bread and butter work.
This is  a wonky kind of versatility which is a bit more than I need right now, but might be worth trying. Otherwise I think it's a case of going for a marantz pmd661 which is a more solid option in many ways (mono facility, pro level line inputs etc.). I can just about stretch to a marantz for only a bit more than the tascam dr100 at the moment, so I have not thought about that option, as nice as it is.
Then I started to look at the sony pcm m10 (and a similar olympus)and heard that they are really clean sounding and have a reasonable internal mic for the once in a while I might want to make those wild tracks I mentioned. They are nice and small too so you could rig it up on a presenter with a lavalier as a dropout proof belt pack or hide it in shot once in a while(!). That and the fact that once I can output from the mixer through that previously mentiones output, I am getting good audio through the mixer so it puts less importance on what recorder I am going to be using because the pre-amps, limiter etc on the Twelco are so good.
Has anyone had any experience using these recorders in these ways? I know I am pushing the envelope of the original purpose of these recorders, but essentially I am trying to make my three hundred quid purchase as versatile a one as possible.
Maybe I need to just get that good deal on the marantz - after all, I guess part of doing sound recording jobs is not looking too hare brained and fly-by-night (no joke here!!) and the marantz is a solid unit.
Anyone have any experience to offer - I'd be grateful to canvas opinion on this one.
As you can tell, whatever I decide to get I'll exploit to its full potential (and become frustrated with the shortcomings I discover - as always!!), but I can't guarantee I'll be going out and getting another recorder any time soon since getting one at all is a bit of a stretch right now. 

Offline Dubdom

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2010, 03:08:09 PM »
I have been doing a bit of asking around and thinking about this since my first looonnnnnggg post. Thinking that offer from bhpphotovideo on the sony pcm m10 that everyone is going mad for is the way to go. Even with tax and shipping it seems pretty good and since I'll probably put it through a mixer most of the time (which does the same thing as that plug in xlr adaptor of sony's), it's probably going to be just the job. I just think the zoom is too compromised for the dubious benefit of the two extra channels and the marantz too expensive.

Anyone have any thoughts??

Offline Dubdom

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2010, 04:49:33 PM »
Hi Folks

Just been reading the sony pcm m10 thread(s).
It's funny really, because all the video forums are full of chat about the zoom h4n and tascam dr100. I confess to being a bit led up the garden path by that.
I have experience of the marantz and was inclined to go with what i know.
The general enthusiasm for the pcm m10 here has stopped me in my tracks (no pun intended).

By the way, pardon my rudeness for not saying hi to everyone first time (was a bit busy at work yesterday when I posted that essay!!). I'm a new poster here,

Hi to all.

cheers

Dom

p.s only just got the twelco mixer - it's a great little package for my line of work!!

Offline newplanet7

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 05:57:49 PM »
Welcome!
That is all I've got.
MILAB VM-44 Classic~> Silver T's~> Busman PMD660
News From Phish: Will tour as opening act for Widespread Panic for Summer
hahaha never happen, PHiSH is waaaaayyyy better the WSP

They both ain't got nothing on MMW... Money spent wisely if you ask me...


FYI, it is a kick ass recording of a bunch of pretend-a-hippies talking.

Offline Erick del Valle

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2010, 10:32:33 AM »
Hi Folks

Just been reading the sony pcm m10 thread(s).
It's funny really, because all the video forums are full of chat about the zoom h4n and tascam dr100. I confess to being a bit led up the garden path by that.
I have experience of the marantz and was inclined to go with what i know.
The general enthusiasm for the pcm m10 here has stopped me in my tracks (no pun intended).

By the way, pardon my rudeness for not saying hi to everyone first time (was a bit busy at work yesterday when I posted that essay!!). I'm a new poster here,

Hi to all.

cheers

Dom

p.s only just got the twelco mixer - it's a great little package for my line of work!!

Welcome!

Well, like you said everyone here loves m10 sony and I too, and the reasons are simple, dramatic sound, is very economical, the battery life is amazing, anything else?
The reasons why in the video forums just talking about zoom h4n, tascam dr100 and Marantz is basically because all the models you mentioned have XLR inputs, in other words are intended to be used without a mixer or preamp in front.
Me in my work as yours have worked and tested many recorders, and based on my experience I have been reducing the size without sacrificing sound, today my normal setup is 416, wireless> sounddevices 302 (tape out)> sonyM10 (line in) and never let me down.

pd, can You put pictures of that mixer in this forum?

I hope this helps you, good luck!

Erick del Valle
Santiago de Chile
Erick del Valle
Santiago de Chile

Offline Dubdom

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2010, 12:44:28 PM »
Hi Eric,

thanks for your input, much appreciated.

Regarding a picture of the mixer - will do, bear with me - i'll try and do that this week.

Anyone have any thoughts comparing theSony pcm m10 to the Tascam dr-2d? I just encountered this one for the first time and it has a few rave reviews!

more later

regds

dom

Offline Dubdom

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2010, 01:07:04 PM »
Hi Erik

Here is a link to the manual


http://www.twelco.hu/LP4_32_usermanual.pdf

regds

Dom

Offline Dubdom

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2010, 03:02:25 AM »
Hi all
I just read an interesting german review of recorders. They put the tascam dr-2d ahead of the Sony m10. That's the first time I've seen that.
Is the Sony a lot quieter than the tascam? Does the feature set of the tascam make it a winner?

AnyOne have any experiences?

Cheers

Dom

Offline Dubdom

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Offline rastasean

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2010, 12:54:37 PM »
I think that if you're using a high quality mixer in between the mics and recorder, the overall sound won't be very drastic. Most of the reviews I read are about the internal mics of a recorder and the overall interface of it and how easy/hard you can navigate in it.

It is not surprising the 2dr is higher rated than the m10 because it does something the m10 doesn't do--4 track recording.

On the review, the pmd661 & m10 was noted to sound like studio recordings,  "...the recordings of the Marantz PMD-661 and the Sony PCM-M10 sound like studio recordings."

I'm not sure how they can tell the difference but the d50 as well as Olympus DM-550, "... sound like vibrant live recordings."

I'm sure you will be happy with the recorder you choose.


Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline Dubdom

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2010, 10:49:32 AM »
Thanks for your comments.

I went for the PCM m10 based on the better signal to noise ratio figures and battery life. it's on its way!
Thanks again

cheers

Dom

Offline Dubdom

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2011, 07:36:50 PM »
Hi Eric

As promised, the twelco mixer and m10

I am astounded at the results - so good

Offline Erick del Valle

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2011, 09:23:46 PM »
Wow!
Erick del Valle
Santiago de Chile

Offline Dubdom

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Re: affordable location recorder for use with a mixer (Twelco 3ch stereo)
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2011, 08:15:36 PM »
Yes bit of a monster really, all metal, built like a tank and dwarfs the m10 but is as clean as a whistle, very versatile, does absolutely everything it needs to do really well ( the headphone channel is deceptively a little hissy, but the rest is really quiet. Hell, you can even set it up to do Mid side stereo easily, power t powered mics, deliver mic or line out. It's great plus the fact that it and the m10 cost about the same as a marantz 661, and it's only a bit bigger than a fostex fr2le. A reconditioned unit on ebay.

 

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