Topic: AT-853's / Sony D8 - General Questions & Help Please!

[nickgregory]

"THIS IS FALSE" is a little harsh.  The AT phantom adapters are doing the SAME JOB as the batterybox, for more $ and less functionality. I found this bit of info after blowing out one of my 853s by plugging it directly into phantom power, and speaking to a tech at Sound Professionals.

Phantom power is nothing but a bias voltage.  The mics, I repeat, CANNOT take a direct power source of more than 10v.  

Actually the real AT 853s and not the SP versions can take 48 volts...this will allow them to reach their full range of SPL handling specs.

The Phantom power adapter sold by Audio-Technica does nothing more than choke 48v to about 9-10v.  So instead of spending that money on a simple power adapter, he can better spend it on a battery box with a bass roll-off.  IMHO, that's a better deal.  I've been using my 853's with the battery/level/roll-off box going into my UA-5 for a while now with great results.

I have no disputes with your results, however, I can say that I have had several bass heavy shows that the SP versions of these mics could not handle due to the decreased SPL handling capability.  No matter how much bass roll off you run, it would not matter, because the SPLs are distorting it before it hits the batt box.

Remember, he is using a small setup, potentially for stealth.  So those Phantom Power adapters are going to add a lot of unnecessary bulk if he wants to hide any of it.  Plus he'd have to get XLR-mini adapters ANYWAY to run into his D8, as he won't be using a pre right away.

actually I think it depends alot on what you tape...any bass (Chili Peppers show, Mule/Kid Rock show for me personally), and the SP mics will distort....which is the increased phantom is preferable, in that it increases the SPL handling.  With regards to size, I can tell you from experience how little fun it is, even if your rig is small to get home with a useless tape.

[joemango]

They have bass roll-off?  I didn't know.  Still, they aren't applicable here as he doesn't have a pre-amp, or the money for one.

[Sean Gallemore]

JOE MANGO: You CANNOT use phantom power on those mics (they take 10v max bias power) so you either must use the plug-in power from your D8 (bad idea) or a battery box.  Then run into the line-in on your D8 (not the mic in).

SCHWILLY: FALSE, untrue, incorrect! FAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLSSSSSEEE!

If I can not use phantom power to power these mics, then how do I and tons of other people run them into preamps???  According to you, they "MUST" run into a battery box or a mic-in on a recorder.  And I said that was FALSE! because it's not true!  I don't do it, Nick doesn't do it, anyone who has the ever used these mics with the phantom power adapters doesn't do it.  Maybe this seems harsh, but I have no idea why you are argueing with me.  I didn't say the sound WILL be better or or your recordings sound like shit, Joe.  I said the specs are better, and that you provided false info, that's it.

I'm sorry you blew out your mic, but that's what the adapters are for.

quick math time:
$80 battery box w/ bass rolloff + $25 1/8" > dual XLR adapter = $105
$100 adapters =  $100

already the adapters are cheaper

And I'll put up my AT853Rx sources against your best modSP sources.  The Sound doesn't lie.

Gotta go to class, I'll deal with the "size" issue later

peace

~schwill

[drumminj]

Damn, y'all are pissy today.  I'm sure the AT phantom adapters regulate the voltage applied to the mics.  I doubt it applies 48 (or 52, which they can handle) directly to the capsules, or if it steps it down.  However, no one ever said that you can apply 48V directly to the capsule.  Providing 48V to the mic via the inline adapters (in the case of AT853Rx version) or the seperate "box" that comes with the at853A's, does increase dynamic range, SPL-handling, and thus enhance sound.  In addition, at least on the module with the at853Rx, it provides a rolloff option as well.

Trust me, i've run both the SP version with battery box, and the at853Rx.  There is a big difference. Schwilly knows what he's talking about.  Sorry you applied 48V directly to your mics.  But that doesn't mean that applying 48V via a phantom power module has no effect, because it does.

[leegeddy]

Damn, y'all are pissy today.  I'm sure the AT phantom adapters regulate the voltage applied to the mics.  I doubt it applies 48 (or 52, which they can handle) directly to the capsules, or if it steps it down.  However, no one ever said that you can apply 48V directly to the capsule.  Providing 48V to the mic via the inline adapters (in the case of AT853Rx version) or the seperate "box" that comes with the at853A's, does increase dynamic range, SPL-handling, and thus enhance sound.  In addition, at least on the module with the at853Rx, it provides a rolloff option as well.

Trust me, i've run both the SP version with battery box, and the at853Rx.  There is a big difference. Schwilly knows what he's talking about.  Sorry you applied 48V directly to your mics.  But that doesn't mean that applying 48V via a phantom power module has no effect, because it does.

nicely said!

marc

[Sean Gallemore]

thanx, drummingj, for saying what I couldn't express properly.  I also find the AT853Rx sound more pleasing to my ears.  I haven't used the CMC-4s, but I have heard many recordings with them and everything I have recorded with the AT853Rx (THANX GOOSE!!!) is leaps and bounds better.  This is not a knock on SP, because i feel the SP-CMC-2 setup is the best bang for your buck stealth-wise, and have recommended it to many people.  However, if you are gonna step up to a higher quality switchable cap system, why short-change yourself?

Regarding size, I don't want to beat this limping horse, but he ain't dead yet, so...
The xlr terminations combined hold roughly the same volume as the battery box.  Also, he said he will probably use a UA-5, therefore, I don't think the XLR termination would be a problem for him.  Rather, they would fit nicely with the UA-5.  I would love to see someone get a UA-5 into one of the bigger (2000+) venues used in Cali.

[drumminj]

BTW, It's drumminj not drummingj.  But that's okay.

Schwilly, I do think that your setup sounds better than most CMC-4 recordings because those are CMC-4->JB3 (w/o preamp) or directly into a DAT.  You rarely find one running into an outboard pre+A/D.  I have some decent CMC-4->AD-20->JB3 tapes, but I still feel the at853Rx do a better job, by far.

J

[Sean Gallemore]

BTW, It's drumminj not drummingj.  But that's okay.

Schwilly, I do think that your setup sounds better than most CMC-4 recordings because those are CMC-4->JB3 (w/o preamp) or directly into a DAT.  You rarely find one running into an outboard pre+A/D.  I have some decent CMC-4->AD-20->JB3 tapes, but I still feel the at853Rx do a better job, by far.

J

sorry drumminj!

very true, I was basing my opinion off of tapes from europe using the CMC-4s and the recordings are just not good at all.  Nick told me he just got his Rxs today, he's running mp-2 > modSBM-1.  I hope he likes them ;Das much as we do

[zhianosatch]

i'm just curious, well, i'm really interested in the UA-5...

how easy is it to sneak into a venue? the edirol specs pages say its pretty big and heavy...

Remember what you said about the AD-20?

"Nah, too big."

That's all I'll say about that - and I didn't even say anything.
A

[Sean Gallemore]

i'm just curious, well, i'm really interested in the UA-5...

how easy is it to sneak into a venue? the edirol specs pages say its pretty big and heavy...

Remember what you said about the AD-20?

"Nah, too big."

That's all I'll say about that - and I didn't even say anything.
A

nah, the ua-5 is doable

[George]

actually I think it depends alot on what you tape...any bass (Chili Peppers show, Mule/Kid Rock show for me personally), and the SP mics will distort....which is the increased phantom is preferable, in that it increases the SPL handling.  With regards to size, I can tell you from experience how little fun it is, even if your rig is small to get home with a useless tape.

Well, i taped a few shows, some bassy while some we're not.  I didn't have the same problems you have been having.   I'm curious though, what kind of roll-off did you use for the shows that distorted?

[drumminj]

I always wondered if maybe it was the circuitry in the batt. box/rolloff that was causing problems and not the mics.  I never was ambitious enough to test that hypothesis, though.  I do know that you can throw pretty much anything at the at853Rx's and they won't distort, however.

And Nick, thanks for letting me know you got the mics!! (oh, wait, that was Schwilly...)

[Sean Gallemore]

lol, I blew nick's jig.

[nickgregory]

Well, i taped a few shows, some bassy while some we're not.  I didn't have the same problems you have been having.   I'm curious though, what kind of roll-off did you use for the shows that distorted?

the max rolloff below the 888Hz, I ran the 195 Hz...it wasnt the rolloff, the bass distorted before it hit the batt box in my opinion....it depends on where you are in relation to the bass cabinet.  For the Chili show I was 20 ft from it, and it was at head level.  For the Kid Rock show I was 50 ft from it and it was at head level.  

[joemango]

Ok... so you do get a higher SPL tolerance with the AT Phantom adapters.  Perhaps that's the difference between 9 volts (battery box) and 10 (effective output of the phantom adapters).   But still, he has no phantom source.  He's got the d8 and wants the mics and has no more money beyond that at this point.  Telling him to buy phantom adapters when he doesn't have a phantom source is not helping the originator of this post.   Sometimes what sounds better is not always feasible, given money, power and space considerations.

I don't doubt for a minute that they make a difference.  But is it enough of a difference?  If he had the money I'm sure he'd buy better mics for stealth anyway.

My original point was that the 853's will not take a direct 48v Phantom source.  Direct.  You need to buy an adapter, which makes it INdirect.  Again, the whole 48v never gets to the mic, it's stepped down to ~10v no matter how you slice it.

My 853's have never given me mechanical clipping (what you get when you don't have enough phantom power), even at some of the loudest shows I've been to.  But then again, I haven't done much stealthing.  I prefer to tape bands that are OK with it. (another topic for another thread)

BTW, I'd love to see anyone TRY and stealth a ua-5 in their pants.