Topic: New Recorder: Edirol R-44 (available 4/08)

[rokpunk]

The R-44 joins the R-4 and R-4Pro in EDIROL’s growing line-up of portable and affordable multi-channel audio location recorders.  Rugged and compact, the R-44 records 4 channels of audio to widely available, solid state SDHC cards at up to 24bit/192 kHz (in stereo, 24 bit / 96 kHz when recording four tracks).


The R-44 is designed for any location recording situation that requires high quality multi-channel audio. With four high quality mic-pres, the R-44 is the ideal upgrade path from affordable stereo audio recorders for those that wish to use high quality condenser microphones or use wireless microphones on specific subjects.  Also, by having 4 independent recording channels, the R-44 makes it easy to capture discrete audio channels that are ready to edit in post production.


Typical applications include:
Audio for Videographers
Audio for conference recording
Legal applications
Live event and concert recording
Location and Foley recording


The R-44 ships in April.  Pricing is as follows:
List: $895

I'll be able to sell these for far less than $895 once they become available.

pm me with your email address for a .pdf file with more specifics about this machine.

[rokpunk]

The R-44 joins the R-4 and R-4Pro in EDIROL’s growing line-up of portable and affordable multi-channel audio location recorders.  Rugged and compact, the R-44 records 4 channels of audio to widely available, solid state SDHC cards at up to 24bit/192 kHz (in stereo, 24 bit / 96 kHz when recording four tracks).


The R-44 is designed for any location recording situation that requires high quality multi-channel audio. With four high quality mic-pres, the R-44 is the ideal upgrade path from affordable stereo audio recorders for those that wish to use high quality condenser microphones or use wireless microphones on specific subjects.  Also, by having 4 independent recording channels, the R-44 makes it easy to capture discrete audio channels that are ready to edit in post production.


Typical applications include:
Audio for Videographers
Audio for conference recording
Legal applications
Live event and concert recording
Location and Foley recording


The R-44 ships in April.  Pricing is as follows:
List: $895

I'll be able to sell these for far less than $895 once they become available.

pm me for a .pdf file with more specifics about this machine.

[leehookem]

damn sweet.  email on the way.

EDIT:

thanks for the pdf file.  So this is pretty much the R4 Pro but no hard drive correct?  Does it resample the digi in?  I like the fact that you can monitor all four channels independently via RCA. 

[goodcooker]

guess that's one way to fix the HDD SLOW in four channel mono.

[Shawn]

can you mix digital and analog signals on this unit?

[mozmoz8]

Hi, Is there any differences between this one and the previous ones, which is already out?

[Roving Sign]

quite a bit smaller...

R-44 = 157(W) x 183(D) x 61(H) mm

R-4 = 240(W) x 217(D) x 77(H) mm

[MarkE]

I wonder if it is equivalent (meaning pre + a/d) to the Ua-5. Id love this as an all in one, but just wouldnt want to take a step back in quality...
MarkE

[Tim]

quite a bit smaller...

R-44 = 157(W) x 183(D) x 61(H) mm

R-4 = 240(W) x 217(D) x 77(H) mm

I'm curious if the smaller size will make it harder (or, gasp!, impossible) for Busman and the Oade's to do their modifications. Hmmm

[flintstone]

A thread already exists with information about the R-44
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=97214.0

If the original poster is soliciting for customers, then
this thread should be moved to the Retail Space section.

Flintstone

[sygdwm]

if they can mod r09/r01's or 660's, im sure they could.

[rokpunk]

A thread already exists with information about the R-44
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=97214.0

If the original poster is soliciting for customers, then
this thread should be moved to the Retail Space section.

Flintstone

the original poster isn't soliciting for customers.
the thing isn't even available yet.

[Roving Sign]

quite a bit smaller...

R-44 = 157(W) x 183(D) x 61(H) mm

R-4 = 240(W) x 217(D) x 77(H) mm

I'm curious if the smaller size will make it harder (or, gasp!, impossible) for Busman and the Oade's to do their modifications. Hmmm

Im getting the impression this is somehow a simpler device...lacking the onboard editing features of its cousins...which arent really that useful to us anyway...so maybe actually less in there.

[willndmb]

quite a bit smaller...

R-44 = 157(W) x 183(D) x 61(H) mm

R-4 = 240(W) x 217(D) x 77(H) mm

damn so that about 6.25x7.25x2.5
not to big at all

edit and in my bag it found fit nice compaired to my ua5
8.5x5.25x1.75

[intpseeker]

Nice size!  Here's a comparison to my PMD660.

Dimensions   Width  4.5" (113 mm)   Height   1.9" (47 mm)   Depth   7.2" (183.5 mm)

[vegas06]

Actually street price should be $795 (not $895) according to sources at Edirol.

[easy jim]

Can anyone with 'sources at Edirol' get the answer to the two questions we're all clamoring to know?

1) Is the s/pdif in bit perfect/sample accurate?  (If not, why is it even there?)

2) Is simultaneous digital + analog recording possible (w/ clock sync to the digital in)?

[OFOTD]

Can anyone with 'sources at Edirol' get the answer to the two questions we're all clamoring to know?

1) Is the s/pdif in bit perfect/sample accurate?  (If not, why is it even there?)

2) Is simultaneous digital + analog recording possible (w/ clock sync to the digital in)?

While i'd love to know the answer to these questions I would be surprised if the answers to both questions is yes.  Both of those features are cornerstones of the R4 Pro when compared to the regular R4.  I can't imagine that they'd go that far into a $2000 product with a possible $800 product.  Then again........

[Gutbucket]

^^^^
Yep, those were my first thoughts on seeing this.

Hmmmm.

Good size, very nice price.  I may well be in for one.  Too bad it won't be in time for Springfest.

[rokpunk]

Actually street price should be $795 (not $895) according to sources at Edirol.

Actually, MSRP will be $895 and MAP will be $795, according to Edirol.

[easy jim]

Can anyone with 'sources at Edirol' get the answer to the two questions we're all clamoring to know?

1) Is the s/pdif in bit perfect/sample accurate?  (If not, why is it even there?)

2) Is simultaneous digital + analog recording possible (w/ clock sync to the digital in)?

While i'd love to know the answer to these questions I would be surprised if the answers to both questions is yes.  Both of those features are cornerstones of the R4 Pro when compared to the regular R4.  I can't imagine that they'd go that far into a $2000 product with a possible $800 product.  Then again........

Very good point, although I hope you're wrong.

[OFOTD]

While i'd love to know the answer to these questions I would be surprised if the answers to both questions is yes.  Both of those features are cornerstones of the R4 Pro when compared to the regular R4.  I can't imagine that they'd go that far into a $2000 product with a possible $800 product.  Then again........

Very good point, although I hope you're wrong.

No you don't hope that i'm worng.  Because if i'm not then you and I both have a $2000+ box worth $795

[easy jim]

While i'd love to know the answer to these questions I would be surprised if the answers to both questions is yes.  Both of those features are cornerstones of the R4 Pro when compared to the regular R4.  I can't imagine that they'd go that far into a $2000 product with a possible $800 product.  Then again........

Very good point, although I hope you're wrong.

No you don't hope that i'm worng.  Because if i'm not then you and I both have a $2000+ box worth $795

Well...true enough.  Though the HD does make some difference (how positive I'm not totally sure). 

I wonder if AES/EBU vs. s/pdif for Edirol has something to do with it?  If I had to choose, I'd go AES over s/pdif (especially now that digital SBDs are proliferating).

[Roving Sign]

While i'd love to know the answer to these questions I would be surprised if the answers to both questions is yes.  Both of those features are cornerstones of the R4 Pro when compared to the regular R4.  I can't imagine that they'd go that far into a $2000 product with a possible $800 product.  Then again........

Very good point, although I hope you're wrong.

No you don't hope that i'm worng.  Because if i'm not then you and I both have a $2000+ box worth $795

Dont the R-4 and R-4 have a lot of editing features, effects...etc - that the R-44 doesnt? Probably some money wrapped up in those elements...

[OFOTD]

While i'd love to know the answer to these questions I would be surprised if the answers to both questions is yes.  Both of those features are cornerstones of the R4 Pro when compared to the regular R4.  I can't imagine that they'd go that far into a $2000 product with a possible $800 product.  Then again........

Very good point, although I hope you're wrong.

No you don't hope that i'm worng.  Because if i'm not then you and I both have a $2000+ box worth $795

Dont the R-4 and R-4 have a lot of editing features, effects...etc - that the R-44 doesnt? Probably some money wrapped up in those elements...

Correct.  They do have some onboard editing features but they are far down the list of features.   


Pictures and the brochure are now online:

http://www.edirol.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=314&Itemid=438

[Roving Sign]

Anyone garner anything from the block diagram?

http://www.edirol.com/images/stories/products/r44/r-44_block_diagram.pdf

[easy jim]

Anyone garner anything from the block diagram?

http://www.edirol.com/images/stories/products/r44/r-44_block_diagram.pdf

Not enough to be sure, but I just compared it to the one for the R-4 Pro and it looks the same with respect to digital I/O.  I also noticed that they do not seem to use digi+analog as a selling point in the 'brochure' for the R-4 Pro...   Jury's probably still out until they release the PDF of the manual.

[Roving Sign]

If I read that correctly - It looks like the "trim" control is analog and the "level" is happening in the digital side?

[easy jim]

If I read that correctly - It looks like the "trim" control is analog and the "level" is happening in the digital side?

Same as the R-4 Pro.  Digitally controlled 'gain' or 'level' in 6dB steps using the outer knob/pot and a variable control analog 'trim' pot in the middle that is +/- 8dB with +0dB at 12 o'clock.

[willndmb]

this baby will run on a dvd battery too correct

[rowjimmy]

this baby will run on a dvd battery too correct

DC IN 9-16v/1.5A

[Gutbucket]

^^^^
What's up with the CTRL/SYNC 1/8" jack?  Remote?

[JD]

Why does edirol put an ass-backwards power plug (polarity wise) on every thing they make?
Just to be different?

This does look like an interesting unit.

[Shawn]

^^^^
What's up with the CTRL/SYNC 1/8" jack?  Remote?

it allows you to sync two units together.

[Gutbucket]

^^^^
What's up with the CTRL/SYNC 1/8" jack?  Remote?

it allows you to sync two units together.

ahhhh.  I wish my two R-09's had that feature.

[evilchris]

I'm really hoping that the pre-amps on this thing are worth a damn.  I'd LOVE to be able to run mics > R-44 as an open rig.

[OFOTD]

Just from the looks of this new unit it bears a striking resemblance to the R4 both from a schematics and from a connection standpoint.  Price point as well.

[Todd R]

Anyone garner anything from the block diagram?

http://www.edirol.com/images/stories/products/r44/r-44_block_diagram.pdf

Not enough to be sure, but I just compared it to the one for the R-4 Pro and it looks the same with respect to digital I/O.  I also noticed that they do not seem to use digi+analog as a selling point in the 'brochure' for the R-4 Pro...   Jury's probably still out until they release the PDF of the manual.

Yep, it looks like from the block diagram that you should be able to take digital in for channels 1-2 and then use channels 3-4 for analog in.  Not enough detail in the block diagram to tell if the R44 will generate its clock from the incoming digital signal though.  I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to re-sample, still need to figure that one out.

Looks to be a pretty nice 4ch machine.

[Roving Sign]

Anyone garner anything from the block diagram?

http://www.edirol.com/images/stories/products/r44/r-44_block_diagram.pdf

Not enough to be sure, but I just compared it to the one for the R-4 Pro and it looks the same with respect to digital I/O.  I also noticed that they do not seem to use digi+analog as a selling point in the 'brochure' for the R-4 Pro...   Jury's probably still out until they release the PDF of the manual.

Yep, it looks like from the block diagram that you should be able to take digital in for channels 1-2 and then use channels 3-4 for analog in.  Not enough detail in the block diagram to tell if the R44 will generate its clock from the incoming digital signal though.  I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to re-sample, still need to figure that one out.

Looks to be a pretty nice 4ch machine.

Since they are using wordclock to create inter-unit sync...Im thinking the dig in will not be resampled. It almost seems the same.

I'm going to guess that the 1/8 stereo mini has one channel word clock and the other channel carries the remote signaling -

I wonder if you could feed the 1/8 sync/remote a spdif signal and have it use that as the clock...

[willndmb]

i read somewhere that the 1/8 sync does not ness mean both units will start recording at the same exact time/point

[NOLAfishwater]

Anyone garner anything from the block diagram?

http://www.edirol.com/images/stories/products/r44/r-44_block_diagram.pdf

Not enough to be sure, but I just compared it to the one for the R-4 Pro and it looks the same with respect to digital I/O.  I also noticed that they do not seem to use digi+analog as a selling point in the 'brochure' for the R-4 Pro...   Jury's probably still out until they release the PDF of the manual.

Yep, it looks like from the block diagram that you should be able to take digital in for channels 1-2 and then use channels 3-4 for analog in.  Not enough detail in the block diagram to tell if the R44 will generate its clock from the incoming digital signal though.  I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to re-sample, still need to figure that one out.

Looks to be a pretty nice 4ch machine.

Since they are using wordclock to create inter-unit sync...Im thinking the dig in will not be resampled. It almost seems the same.

I'm going to guess that the 1/8 stereo mini has one channel word clock and the other channel carries the remote signaling -

I wonder if you could feed the 1/8 sync/remote a spdif signal and have it use that as the clock...

Ed, Let me be the first to endorse you sluttiness. Looks like a tight box. You should jump on it when they start shipping.

[OFOTD]

i read somewhere that the 1/8 sync does not ness mean both units will start recording at the same exact time/point

From Edirol:


Capture eight channels by linking two units
 
The Control Sync terminal enables synchronized operation of 2 units. Control the second unit from the master by simply connecting two with a stereo mini cable. The master unit can remotely control REC standby, REC start and REC stop of the slave unit.  This function enables 8-channel recording in a compact space and at an affordable price.

[Roving Sign]

i read somewhere that the 1/8 sync does not ness mean both units will start recording at the same exact time/point

I think the emphasis is on "exact" - I cant see that being too much of an issue for most tapers...

[Roving Sign]

Anyone garner anything from the block diagram?

http://www.edirol.com/images/stories/products/r44/r-44_block_diagram.pdf

Not enough to be sure, but I just compared it to the one for the R-4 Pro and it looks the same with respect to digital I/O.  I also noticed that they do not seem to use digi+analog as a selling point in the 'brochure' for the R-4 Pro...   Jury's probably still out until they release the PDF of the manual.

Yep, it looks like from the block diagram that you should be able to take digital in for channels 1-2 and then use channels 3-4 for analog in.  Not enough detail in the block diagram to tell if the R44 will generate its clock from the incoming digital signal though.  I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to re-sample, still need to figure that one out.

Looks to be a pretty nice 4ch machine.

Since they are using wordclock to create inter-unit sync...Im thinking the dig in will not be resampled. It almost seems the same.

I'm going to guess that the 1/8 stereo mini has one channel word clock and the other channel carries the remote signaling -

I wonder if you could feed the 1/8 sync/remote a spdif signal and have it use that as the clock...

Ed, Let me be the first to endorse you sluttiness. Looks like a tight box. You should jump on it when they start shipping.

Thanks for the endorsement! Like I dont have enough gear that I havent used yet!

...I was about ready to move away from 4 track for awhile and grab FR2-LE - but maybe I should hold for some initial reports on this unit...

[tenesejedd]

The block diagram shows that the line out goes through an AD/DA cycle. You would think that it would be a cost savings to them if they made the line out come directly from the pres before they AD stage. It also looks like the Digi out is a summation of all 4 channels.

It looks interesting. I will be staying tuned to see how this all pans out. For the time being, i'm pretty happy with my busman most FR2-LE

[Roving Sign]

The block diagram shows that the line out goes through an AD/DA cycle. You would think that it would be a cost savings to them if they made the line out come directly from the pres before they AD stage. It also looks like the Digi out is a summation of all 4 channels.

It looks interesting. I will be staying tuned to see how this all pans out. For the time being, i'm pretty happy with my busman most FR2-LE

You still need D>A>RCA signal path for playback. Analog pass thru would mean an extra signal path - so probably not cost a cost savings.

Plus one of the gain controls is digital.

[willndmb]

i read somewhere that the 1/8 sync does not ness mean both units will start recording at the same exact time/point

From Edirol:


Capture eight channels by linking two units
 
The Control Sync terminal enables synchronized operation of 2 units. Control the second unit from the master by simply connecting two with a stereo mini cable. The master unit can remotely control REC standby, REC start and REC stop of the slave unit.  This function enables 8-channel recording in a compact space and at an affordable price.

also from them...
stereo mini type jack
word clock control sync start/stop remote control of 2 unit
remote start does not guarantee the exact same rec start times

so although its prob small, if using it to try and word clock sources it could be off

[tenesejedd]

The block diagram shows that the line out goes through an AD/DA cycle. You would think that it would be a cost savings to them if they made the line out come directly from the pres before they AD stage. It also looks like the Digi out is a summation of all 4 channels.

It looks interesting. I will be staying tuned to see how this all pans out. For the time being, i'm pretty happy with my busman most FR2-LE

You still need D>A>RCA signal path for playback. Analog pass thru would mean an extra signal path - so probably not cost a cost savings.

Plus one of the gain controls is digital.

good point. This does seem to be the norm now anyhow. It also seems that these DA paths are getting better in quality. I recorded a show with my FR2-LE and also ran RCA out into my Edirol R1. The R1s recording surprisingly sounded very good.

[Brian Skalinder]

also from them...
stereo mini type jack
word clock control sync start/stop remote control of 2 unit
remote start does not guarantee the exact same rec start times

so although its prob small, if using it to try and word clock sources it could be off

As long as the word clocks sync, exact same rec start/stop times isn't a big deal in my book.  Easy enough to align a single time in post.  But if the word clocks are off...no fun syncing up different clocks in post.

[Ozpeter]

The block diagram seems to imply that there is no control over monitoring apart from the headphone level (so to get a monitor mix you'd have to run the line-outs into an external mixer - not a neat solution) and that the limiter is in the digital domain and therefore close to useless.  Pity.  Or am I wrong?

[Roving Sign]

The block diagram seems to imply that there is no control over monitoring apart from the headphone level (so to get a monitor mix you'd have to run the line-outs into an external mixer - not a neat solution) and that the limiter is in the digital domain and therefore close to useless.  Pity.  Or am I wrong?

I would guess you can listen to either track set seperatley. - the tracks are meant to be put together in post...so as long as you are properly recording each channel - should be no problem - Its not like you making a mix on the fly - so I cant see the use of a "monitor mix"

I dont see a problem with a digital limiter - not uncommon. Note the "level" control is digital as well - only the "sensitivity" control is analog.

[Roving Sign]

Bumping this thread since I more or less decimated the flow on the other...sorry...

[kskreider]

thread marker

[BayTaynt3d]

I dont see a problem with a digital limiter - not uncommon. Note the "level" control is digital as well - only the "sensitivity" control is analog.

Well it's as good as a compression plugin being used in post for limiting, but isn't it utterly useless in the field for protecting against clipping? If I use the limiter in a MixPre/FP24, I can actually prevent clipping, if I use the limiter in an R44, the only thing that can truly prevent clipping is the sensitivity knob isn't it? Sure you can limit after getting the sens knob right, but I can do that in my NLE after-the-fact with way more control, so why would anyone ever bother using it?

[digifish_music]

I dont see a problem with a digital limiter - not uncommon. Note the "level" control is digital as well - only the "sensitivity" control is analog.

Well it's as good as a compression plugin being used in post for limiting, but isn't it utterly useless in the field for protecting against clipping? If I use the limiter in a MixPre/FP24, I can actually prevent clipping, if I use the limiter in an R44, the only thing that can truly prevent clipping is the sensitivity knob isn't it? Sure you can limit after getting the sens knob right, but I can do that in my NLE after-the-fact with way more control, so why would anyone ever bother using it?

I strongly suspect the block diagram is drawn incorrectly. In the manual, they say:

"This switch turns the input level limiter on/off in the analog circuitry. The limiter compresses the input level appropriately to prevent distortion when the input level is too high. The limiter can be set to operate each channel independently or to be used in combination with channels
(linked). For details, refer to “Limiter link” (p. 68)."

and

"Limiter Turn this ON if you want to prevent unexpectedly loud sounds or strong attacks from producing clipped noise. The limiter threshold is -10 dB relative to digital full scale. The limiter can group and link each channel. See Limiter link (p. 68)."

and

"Limiter Turn this OFF when recording an audio source whose levels have already been adjusted (in contrast to a live audio source whose levels might change unpredictably), or if you have already checked the maximum volume levels that are going to occur. Turn this ON if you need to prevent clipping (distortion) caused by unexpected loud volumes or strong attacks."

and

"The Limiter, Low Cut and Input level knob[SENS] settings are invalid for digital input"...

So according to that it's Pre A/D...and it makes more sense the block diagram is wrong than the limiter is post A/D. Same goes for the low-pass filter.



digifish

[BayTaynt3d]

If that's true, that's just stupid (that they have drawn it wrong). Not sure which one I trust actually (the diagram or the manual).

[digifish_music]

If that's true, that's just stupid (that they have drawn it wrong). Not sure which one I trust actually (the diagram or the manual).

I have just asked Edirol about it. Will report back.

digifish.