Topic: Audient Mico into Tascam DR-680 SPDIF digitally - problem

[rojarosguitar]

Hello, I know that the issue has been touched in many places here and also in GS.

But I haven't come across any constructive answer as to how to solve the problem.

In a nutshell: My Audient Mico is not communicating properly with the Tascam DR-680 (Busman Mod) regardless which sampling rate I chose.
"DIN unlock" message.

As I got the TC Electronic Impact Twin work well with DR-680 I suspect that the problem is trather on some incompatibility of the SPDIF protocolls used.

I tried to use the AES output of the Mico through a Neutrik NADITBNC-FX transformer, but this also didn't work.

In a e-mail from Audient they tell me they know the problem but can't come up with a solution for the units that are currently in use.

If they have a language problem (and I gather from different contributions that this is also the case with some other preamps equipped with digital outputs), there should be an inline 'translator' that translate one SPDIF dialect into the other... I know, a naive idea, but why not. Somebody knowledgeable in digital communication protocolls should be able to programm a little chip for that!

But seriously, has anybody come up with a working solution for this?

And other way round: Is there a really good sounding preamp with digital output that communicates well with the DR-680 (practically proven)?

best
Robert

[dogmusic]

The Audient Mico digital output will not work with the digital input of either the SONY PCM-D50 or the TASCAM DR-100mkii. The Audient technicians say they cannot make any modification to their units to allow them to work digitally with those machines. I assume that applies to the TASCAM DR-680 as well.

The SOUND DEVICES USBPre2 digital output works with both of the above recorders and sounds great. I'm pretty sure it would work with the DR-680.

Running the Mico line-in into the D50 also sounds pretty darn good.

[dgpretzel]

The Sound Devices USBPre 2 works quite well with the DR-680.  (I own them both.)

The only connection you need is SPDIF OUT from USBPre 2 to SPDIF IN on DR-680.

DG

[Gutbucket]

Grace Lunatec V3 also works fine via the digital connection.

[edit- I also commonly run a SPDIF connection from an R44>DR-680 with no problems]

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I'm under the impression the UA-5 doesn't work with the 680 either....but could be wrong about that. I was thinking about picking up one cheap just in case I wanted to use all 8 channels on the 680 and recall someone mentioning it either doesn't work or isn't reliable.

[kirk97132]

MICO spdif will not lock with the 680.  I thought the AES out did lock you should not need any transformer, the 680 has auto sensing for AES input.  Just run AES into the RCA Spdif jack.  DO NOT try to convert it to 75 ohm spdif.  It has to do with how the 680 reads the incoming data stream.  The UA-5 works with the 680.  UA-5 is a solid little pre.  kinda regret selling the one I had.

[tomuo]

I ran tests on this a few years back with a startech A/D S/PDIF converter.  Basically they left all the Channel status (C-bit) data bits at zero when they should have put something correct in there.
All zeroes corresponds to "Consumer / 48kHz", which is a contradiction if the actual rate is 44.1kHz.

In this case, the DR-680 (and many other TASCAM products) refuses to read the input, because it doesn't know which to believe.

If we always ignored the C-bits, we can't save your hearing if a badly formatted signal turns out to be full scale noise. (e.g. Dolby AC3 signal)

---
Tom.

[kirk97132]

I ran tests on this a few years back with a startech A/D S/PDIF converter.  Basically they left all the Channel status (C-bit) data bits at zero when they should have put something correct in there.
All zeroes corresponds to "Consumer / 48kHz", which is a contradiction if the actual rate is 44.1kHz.

In this case, the DR-680 (and many other TASCAM products) refuses to read the input, because it doesn't know which to believe.

If we always ignored the C-bits, we can't save your hearing if a badly formatted signal turns out to be full scale noise. (e.g. Dolby AC3 signal)

---
Tom.

It is not that the Tascam "doesn't know which to believe", but rather the fact that it reads the header info, and not the actual digital stream coming in.  So there are certian units that the Tascam will not work with, the Mico being one.  I would try a straight AES input into the 680 since it is able to accept that.  Even then I am not 100% sure it will work.  The Sound Devices USBPre-2 had the same problem when initially realeaed, but SD upgraded their software with a patch for compatibility.   

[rojarosguitar]

MICO spdif will not lock with the 680.  I thought the AES out did lock you should not need any transformer, the 680 has auto sensing for AES input.  Just run AES into the RCA Spdif jack.  DO NOT try to convert it to 75 ohm spdif.  It has to do with how the 680 reads the incoming data stream.  The UA-5 works with the 680.  UA-5 is a solid little pre.  kinda regret selling the one I had.

I tried today running from Mico AES output through a short XLR to RCA  (XLR Pin 2 to center, XLR Pin 3 to sleeve, XLR Pin 1 no connection). Digital Unlock message!

Maybe my wiring was wrong. How would you wire it and what kind of cable do I nee for short distance (15-20cm)?

Thanks for your response

R.

[rojarosguitar]

MICO spdif will not lock with the 680.  I thought the AES out did lock you should not need any transformer, the 680 has auto sensing for AES input.  Just run AES into the RCA Spdif jack.  DO NOT try to convert it to 75 ohm spdif.  It has to do with how the 680 reads the incoming data stream.  The UA-5 works with the 680.  UA-5 is a solid little pre.  kinda regret selling the one I had.

Has anybody tried UA-25 with DR-680 connected via SPDIF?

[runonce]

MICO spdif will not lock with the 680.  I thought the AES out did lock you should not need any transformer, the 680 has auto sensing for AES input.  Just run AES into the RCA Spdif jack.  DO NOT try to convert it to 75 ohm spdif.  It has to do with how the 680 reads the incoming data stream.  The UA-5 works with the 680.  UA-5 is a solid little pre.  kinda regret selling the one I had.

Has anybody tried UA-25 with DR-680 connected via SPDIF?

Does the UA-25 run with out a computer?

Looks like the newer model UA-25EX will - but its unclear if the digital outs are active in that config. (refered to as "Direct Box functionality for stage use")

[kirk97132]

I would take the statement "A direct box for stage use" to mean you can use it as a DI for instruments.  Completely different application than what you are talking about. 

[rojarosguitar]

Bump ...

Nobody seems to have solved that strange problem:

Here's one device claming to send AES signal - there is another device claming to autodetect AES signal ... and they are not talkong to each other ... too bad!

?

[DSatz]

The AES doesn't evaluate audio equipment to confirm that it meets their standards, nor does it take action against manufacturers when their products claim to implement AES standards but don't do so in fact. Same thing with the IEC and ISO (who define S-P/DIF).

Many standards are "more honored in the breach than in the observance." It's part of the larger problem of product specifications. Some manufacturers use specifications to describe the minimum or typical performance of their product, and if your example of their product doesn't meet its specs, they'll take that seriously and try to make it right.

Other manufacturers--particularly in countries that offer cheaper manufacturing--consider their product specifications to be "aspirational guidelines" (i.e. marketing tools) and they take no responsibility to live up to those specifications. They sometimes even copy the specifications of products that they're cloning (however badly). When you measure what their products actually do, it may not come anywhere close to those specifications--and those manufacturers know perfectly well whether it does or not.

As long as we keep buying, they'll keep selling ...

[rojarosguitar]

What really annoys me is that Audient (the maker of Mico and as such a well reputed firm) knows about the incompatibility problems since quite a while and didn't take any effective step to remove it. I mean, after all we have digital outputs in preamps only because we want to connect them digitally to recorders - not to be able to bserve the nice digital signal on an oscilloscope ... (BTW I think they produce in UK and have really a good reputation. And the Mico is a very very good sounding preamp, and even more so for it's price. It would be alright without the spdif output, but having it might be one reason for buying this amp and not another... At least they should clearly state that there is a list of incompatibel recoders and the should publish it si that one can make a decision beforhand.)