Topic: Advice on mic setup, piano plus quartet

[WiFiJeff]

I am looking for advice on mic placement for taping a classical string quartet, followed on the program by a piano/string quartet version of a piano concerto.  I will only be using one tripod, though I could do four channels if needed (far prefer a two channel setup, though).  I can perhaps move the stand between the pieces, but will only get a sound check before the concert begins not on relocating the stand.  Small hall with stadium type seating, I usually put the tripod a few feet in front of the group or piano playing.  I have standard omnis and cards, also an AKG 426 that I've used in Blumlein at this location successfully, but the balance is an issue.

Jeff

[SClassical]

Jeff... read this - it might give you some ideas!

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~bunce/bal2.htm

[divamum]

Jeff... read this - it might give you some ideas!

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~bunce/bal2.htm

oh man I wish I'd seen this a couple of weeks ago! Did a "studio"-style rec'ing of myself and the piano was an incredibly loud instrument. With the lid down it sounded muffled; lid up and it was just LOUD.  Eventaully we propped it open just enough to let some clear sound escape and recorded off center. It was ok, although I suspect I could do better (and will be keep that page to refer to in the future!)

Jeff, won't it depend on the actual instrument (pianos can vary SO wildly in volume/clarity/clatter) and the group's placement, too? I've seen a few different configs for chamber strings....

Good luck with it!

[WiFiJeff]

Unfortunately, when I follow this link I get everythig BUT the diagrams of mic positions, which are broken links.

The piano is a Steinway grand, how loud it is will depend on the pianist, but I have a rough idea of the range since it is the same instrument every week.  The suggestion to put the quartet on the "dead" side (keyboard?) is good, but I won't be able to control that (this is a live concert, not a studio session).  I may have to improvise even if I do come up with an ideal solution, given that the quartet will position itself however it feels most comfortable in the hall.

Jeff

[ghellquist]

Obviously this is not a commercial CD release, meaning you will not have hours after hours of paintstakingly modifying mic positions and moving performers around.

My first try for this kind of setup is generally ORTF. It will work decently in most acoustical rooms and will catch a good representation of the actual performances if you have a good pair of cardioids. Unfortunately, this setup puts rather heavy demands on the "off-center" sound of the cardioids, some of the low-priced alternative are not so good there. I guess you can look it up, but 17cm and 110 degrees are the measurements, not necessarily to be followed religiously. You need to test at home mounting your mics on a stereo bar atop the tripod as there are some surprises to be had, especially with small diameter cardioids (hint: get a couple off distances  to put under one of the mics).  In fact, to me it has become such a standard that I have invested in a Schoeps MSTC64 mic setup, a stereo mic forever fixed at ORTF setup. Running that into a Sound Devices 722 with a Manfrotto stand gives a quite portable setup with respectable sound quality.

Try to get the mics high up, preferrably at least 2 meters above the stage floor. Exact placement is very dependant on room and ensemble so you should listen real carefully in closed back headphones to be certain. The full ensemble should fit "inside" the mics, ie the appearant angle of the performers should be less than the 110 degrees of the mics. This probalby puts the tripod out in the audience more than on stage but it all depends. You can modify the balance between solo / piano by moving the mics forward backward while listening on headhones. Closer will give more appearant volume to the solo that is generally placed in front of the piano.

My guess is that you can place the mics rather close for the string quartet and then back-off a little for the combined setup, but again, listening is the only clue you will have.

Best of luck, it is a bit hit-and-miss.

Gunnar

Gunnar

[WiFiJeff]

Just to report back on how this went:

I used two separate stereo setups (it was not possible to rearrange the players in any significant way, the piano was right behind the string quartet, with the pianist and keyboard dead center so they could all see each other).  One, Josephson C617 omnis with large diameter caps baffled by GuySonic's LiteGuy baffled, got a decent recording, but the piano is on the verge of being too distant and reverberant, since the mics were very close to the quartet and thus relatively far from the piano.  I couldn't move back appreciably, because they were front of stage and the audience area was packed and noisy (winter cold noisy, not rock noisy).  I debated using the suggested ORTF, but decided that my AKG 426 in Blumlein wouldn't be too different from that, and I love Blumlein in this hall.  The right cap was pointed just outside the viola and towards the business end of the piano, so the pickup was good, it made the piano sound much more present.  Both recordings are good, but the Blumlein rocks.

(MG MK102.1 > Josephson C617s > SD722; AKG C426B > DaviSound TB12 > Sonosax MiniR82)

Jeff

[BayTaynt3d]

Although it so depends on the situation, my experience with acoustic jazz has been that the piano is often the weakest sounding instrument on the main stereo pair, and so often, I'll just stick a third mic into the piano and be done with it. That permits me to add just a touch of extra piano into the main pair. Anyway, just an idea for future reference, but not sure if it's as relevant in a classical/chamber music environment.