Topic: best configurations for running wide card caps at close proximity?

[Jimna]

im planning on running fairly close to the stage tomorrow(maybe 10 or 15 ft from the stage), clamped to the sprinkler pipes about a foot below the ceiling.  im going to run my TL's in blumlein for sure with the busman's wide card caps.  i cant decide what config would be wisest for the sub cards as im new to them.  any opinions?  any experience here?  im afraid DIN might be to narrow with my distance from the PA, but maybe not.  maybe the wide cards would benefit from that giving me less audience?  i dunno, what do yinz think?


 

[goodcooker]

depends on the stage setup...but I'd use NOS
get as far away from the ceiling as is possible

[Jimna]

depends on the stage setup...but I'd use NOS
get as far away from the ceiling as is possible

i will, i have a large C clamp i attach to the pipe with, then a LD converted shure vert bar screws on that, then my sub cards clamped on the bottom of that. maybe 2.5 foot away from the ceiling when its all said and done.  i love not guarding a mic stand.

[goodcooker]

You considered a safety lanyard ......just in case?

[Jimna]

You considered a safety lanyard ......just in case?

no, ya know i really trust the C clamp Manfrotto makes.  its large enough to clamp on to a decent size wood railing or bar(3.5 inch opening), and i know from testing this much weight with my TL's and mojowill's 483's in chicago, DFC balcony at the riviera.  it is quite sturdy and clamps on very tightly to anything it can get around.  ive got a few clamps, but this bitch is the bad mutha of all clamps ive used or seen.  so yeah back on point, no i dont have a lanyard.  do you, ive never heard of a taper that did.  might be a good idea?!?!?!?? 

....using this clamp plus a super clamp clamped to its body, and a stand table attachment on it, i ran my sennheisers off this rig with my denecke ad-20> M1 +batterys sat on the table clamped to the light bar at byham theater (used to be the stanley theater) more than once.  ive used clamps almost as much as stands in small clubs and bars. 

so am i stupid here?  should i?

[Jimna]

this is the clamp i love.

[goodcooker]

If you trust your clamp..roll with it. Looks pretty burly.

But looking at that rig in the third and fourth pic ....you might consider it.

I've used an extra length of mic cable tied around my vert bar when clamping off to balconies with people underneath...can't hurt. I drink when I go out.

But I don't think most people do it and I've never heard of anyone getting brained at a show from a rig dropped from the ceiling.

Can you imagine taking a pair of TLs to the dome?

[DSatz]

Jimna, there is no standard definition for a "wide cardioid" pattern--that's just an informal name for any pattern that's roughly somewhere in the approximate middle between cardioid and omni. Each manufacturer chooses whatever sounds best to them (or is the easiest to manufacture at a given price point), so there are real differences in pattern among the different makes and models.

One thing that's for sure is that coincident recording with wide cardioids makes very little sense; the result will be very nearly mono. And for a given angle of coverage, the capsules need to be placed farther apart and/or spread farther apart than more highly directional capsules would be.

With the pattern as Schoeps defines it for the MK 21 and MK 21 H, you could try a spacing of 25 to 28 cm. (10 or 11 inches, roughly) with an angle of 110 degrees between the axes. The wider spacing gives a coverage angle ("stereophonic recording angle") the same as classic ORTF with cardioids, while the narrower spacing makes it a touch larger.

I'm very fond of wide cardioids in the right acoustic--they give the recording the "feel" and the easy listening quality of pressure transducers--which they mostly are, in fact, if built with a single diaphragm--but at the same time they're quite capable of picking up a real stereo image with accurate localization; it doesn't have to be swimmy and phasey the way spaced omnis often are (at least the way Americans tend to use them).

--best regards

[Jimna]

wow, very helpful, thanks.  i guess ill shoot for DSatz recommended config, it makes perfect sense. 


i think ill try a make shift lanyard using my cables, goodcookers right a set of TL's to the dome would hurt.


thanks for the help!

[Javier Cinakowski]

DSatz recomendation is solid, as always. 

That is a 55degree SRA.  That is likely about what the SRA would be that close to the stage.    Could be more...
A trick that I learned here on ts is:   With your arm extended out your fist takes up 10degrees.  This is an easy way to measure the SRA, and then you can use the SZ chart....



EDIT: to make more sense

[Jimna]

some follow up...http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,101257.0.html

[chucky]

I know it's a bit late but...

In the past I used a lanyard a couple of times when clamped to something sketchy,
but as long as the XLR's "click" in, and are wrapped around something then you
should be good. Not that having your mics hanging 5 feet off a balcony swinging by the XLR's is ever good but... keeps your mics off the pavement, and you off of court TV.

Then a couple months ago I had a pair of 140's clamped to a balcony away from wooks in the lighting booth at a venue tested the clamp, I was pushing, pulling every which way felt great, started getting tipsy and letting the tape roll in a "safe" spot... Damn lightman knocked off my clamp , LUCKILY there was a little shelf for a projector just below the mics that caught them. I though the clamp had a bombproof grip, and I was totally sober when I set it up but...

Ever since then I ALWAYS run a lanyard while clamped to anything but a stand, the couple minutes it takes to rig one up is well worth the piece of mind IMO.

... but there was that one time at MMW in Osaka where some kid pulled a chair over by my stand, jumped up on it and started tugging on my mics, almost knocking the stand down with two pairs of AK40's on top. Wow, was that kid spun. It took everything I had not to pound on that fucking kid . That time we were running a stand with the legs closed Duct taped to a pole, I thought we were safe that day but...  You never know... What if that same spunion is at that show hanging off the sprinkler pipes? I say lanyard up cause man that clamp/setup looks H-E-A-V-Y, and could seriously fuck someone up!!

But I must say, looks like you get some prime real estate with that clamp... I like it!

[Jimna]

I know it's a bit late but...

In the past I used a lanyard a couple of times when clamped to something sketchy,
but as long as the XLR's "click" in, and are wrapped around something then you
should be good. Not that having your mics hanging 5 feet off a balcony swinging by the XLR's is ever good but... keeps your mics off the pavement, and you off of court TV.

Then a couple months ago I had a pair of 140's clamped to a balcony away from wooks in the lighting booth at a venue tested the clamp, I was pushing, pulling every which way felt great, started getting tipsy and letting the tape roll in a "safe" spot... Damn lightman knocked off my clamp , LUCKILY there was a little shelf for a projector just below the mics that caught them. I though the clamp had a bombproof grip, and I was totally sober when I set it up but...

Ever since then I ALWAYS run a lanyard while clamped to anything but a stand, the couple minutes it takes to rig one up is well worth the piece of mind IMO.

... but there was that one time at MMW in Osaka where some kid pulled a chair over by my stand, jumped up on it and started tugging on my mics, almost knocking the stand down with two pairs of AK40's on top. Wow, was that kid spun. It took everything I had not to pound on that fucking kid . That time we were running a stand with the legs closed Duct taped to a pole, I thought we were safe that day but...  You never know... What if that same spunion is at that show hanging off the sprinkler pipes? I say lanyard up cause man that clamp/setup looks H-E-A-V-Y, and could seriously fuck someone up!!

But I must say, looks like you get some prime real estate with that clamp... I like it!

thanks!  i did consider the lanyard too, but i had nothing to hook too.  that I beam was solid to the ceiling so what could i do?  i do love that clamp though.... 

[chucky]

Yup, You could prolly hang from that clamp anyway while clamped to that Ibeam

[Nick's Picks]

I know that this isnt supposed to work or sound good even...but some of my best wide-card/sub card pulls were XY.

both are on archive for anyone to check out if they'd like.
one is on stage , charlie hunter
one is far field, StringCheese from the BSC 2005.  that is one really ass kickin' recording.  done w/the c34 in sub-card setting at 90deg.