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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: down2earthlandscaper on April 19, 2015, 11:32:52 AM
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Hi, I don't know whether this question would fit under "playback" or "post processing" so I'll try posting it here...
I have these headphones which I received for a Christmas gift a couple of years ago: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-cVv4tjoHFxE/p_107BUCKLEN/Polk-Audio-Buckle-Brown.html
They seem ok for listening, but the bass seems over-emphasized and I'm worried that they will adversely affect the outcome if I use them when making EQ adjustments in post.
(My approach thus far has been to listen to my recordings on the home stereo, in the car, on headphones (and even plugged "line-in" on my old school Panasonic boom box, to get a really good idea of how they sound before tackling any EQ adjustments)
Does anyone have recommendations for good headphones to use for this purpose?
Thanks,
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What you want are a set of "monitor" headphones: they have a flat frequency response and don't over emphasize any particular part of the listening spectrum. There are lots of good and reputable industry-standard ones available and everyone has their personal favorites (Sony 7506, AKG 240, Sennheiser 280, Beyerdynamic 770, etc). Mine are the Audio-Technica ATH-M50. If you have a good brick and mortar shop where you can audition headphones for sound and comfort, it would be a good idea to go and spend some time trying them on and listening.
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I am a big fan of the audio technica ath-m50s too. I've owned several other headphones and these are my favorite. Very flat freq response. Great bang for the buck. If you shop around you should be able to find them for around $100.
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I got a pair of the aforementioned Sonys for my birthday last month - only just getting my ears around them, as it were, but finding them very neutral so far and that good-sounding results through them are reliably good on other systems. Comfortable too.
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I use the Audio Technica's also. Actually have two pairs I like them so much
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I am a big fan of the audio technica ath-m50s too. I've owned several other headphones and these are my favorite. Very flat freq response. Great bang for the buck. If you shop around you should be able to find them for around $100.
Me too!
These are an absolute steal if you don't mind the white color
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172421.0
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I am a fan of the Sennheiser HD280. I've had a pair for many years and I like the sound and the fit (I have a really big dome). They are not the most flat response of the cans I've listened to but they work fine for me. I do the bulk of my mixing on monitors but I usually give a couple of tracks a listen on the cans before calling it done.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=240764&gclid=CPuZ1fzwgsUCFdgdgQodLpgAZA&Q=&is=REG&A=details (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=240764&gclid=CPuZ1fzwgsUCFdgdgQodLpgAZA&Q=&is=REG&A=details)
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I've been using Sennheiser HD 380s for a few months and very happy with them so far. The bass response in particular is excellent (in range extension, not in over-hyped bloat). I've gone back to several old recordings and found LF rumble that I missed.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/650058-REG/Sennheiser_HD_380PRO_HD_380_Pro_Circumaural.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/650058-REG/Sennheiser_HD_380PRO_HD_380_Pro_Circumaural.html)
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I use those Sennheiser 380 Pro for last few years and love them,you can replace the pads and cable too if you ever need to.
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I use those Sennheiser 380 Pro for last few years and love them,you can replace the pads and cable too if you ever need to.
Yeah the stock cable is really bulky and heavy - I replaced with this which was lightweight and worked perfectly:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Shop/Recertified-Products-and-Accessories/Accessories/P5-standard-audio-cable.html (http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Shop/Recertified-Products-and-Accessories/Accessories/P5-standard-audio-cable.html)
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The Sony 7506s are my recommendation. They're nice and flat. Moreso than the HD280s IMO
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I wouldn't recommend mixing solely on headphones, if you can avoid it. If you can't, the ATH-M50s are the best bang for the buck by far.
If you're talking about monitoring live, the HD280s from Sennheiser have better sound isolation than the M50s. They sound worse, but for live monitoring, they're an excellent choice. I'd say a majority of engineers I see around the venues I go to use them.
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FWIW, you'll see quite a few FOH guys with ATH-M50 at the board.
Also, remember that headphones can use a good burn-in. I always thought that was snake oil advice until I bought a pair of Senn HD600 whose character really changed alot after i burned them in for 100 hours or so. I've burned in another pair since that didn't have as large a change (hd700) but the one experience sold me on the fact that it can make a difference.
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I edit and master with a DAC driving isolation stand mounted powered near field monitor speakers.
Headphones Applications
Sony MDR-7506's in the field and with Focusrite VRM Box to check virtual mix compatibility, general listening with AKG K240's or Sennheiser HD424's and then Sennheiser PX100's or Shure SE215's for iPod use.
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Among Sound Engineers, the go to headphone is the Sony MDR-7506.
I say that because at two of my local sound companies, I asked the repair techs what is the most popular headphone, and that was their answer. Now granted, if its being repaired 3x more than any other model or brand that means two things--(1) They break; and (2) Its worth for the user to actually spend the bread to repair the unit, rather than toss it.
I have two pairs by the way, and love it.
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http://www.posthorn.com/Remote_2.html
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I got a pair of the aforementioned Sonys for my birthday last month - only just getting my ears around them, as it were, but finding them very neutral so far and that good-sounding results through them are reliably good on other systems. Comfortable too.
I like 7506's but I need a pair that will give great isolation at shows.
These are on my Christmas list.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/283347-REG/Remote_Audio_HN7506_HN_7506_High_Noise_Isolating.html
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For remote recording, isolation is needed. For listening/mixing, accurate reproduction. Could be a set of buds (under ear muffs in some cases) for the former.
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For work at shows where you need isolation, absolutely nothing beats good in ears. I have a pair of these and the isolation is 200x better than any over ears I've used (which is a lot). I use them for checking levels a lot and actually sub them in for the headphones thing at UM shows now because the isolation is so much better than the over ears.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/search?N=10758635&InitialSearch=yes&sts=pi
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Among Sound Engineers, the go to headphone is the Sony MDR-7506.
I say that because at two of my local sound companies, I asked the repair techs what is the most popular headphone, and that was their answer. Now granted, if its being repaired 3x more than any other model or brand that means two things--(1) They break; and (2) Its worth for the user to actually spend the bread to repair the unit, rather than toss it.
I have two pairs by the way, and love it.
...which might be a good reason why you see so many ATH-M50 at the soundboard...they're rugged and hold up in the field. I know some have praised their sound. I personally don't care for them much for anything but casual field monitoring, but I have a pair that I've used in my bag and they've they've been rock solid after four years of moderate use...averaging between once and twice weekly over the course of the year.
So refining my earlier response, I'd say that if your general needs are a rugged, well respected headphone that has a record of field durability and your needs are like mine...which is to have something basic for checking levels and making sure your signal is clean, then these would be a great option. They fold up quite nicely as well. If you want something that you can listen to and monitor the detailed EQ of the show, where sound isolation is an important factor, then look elsewhere.
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For remote recording, isolation is needed. For listening/mixing, accurate reproduction. Could be a set of buds (under ear muffs in some cases) for the former.
Expanding on this a bit...I mean, don't buy open back headphones and take them in the field, but all I can control is level and balance on my rig anyway. Unless I'm a sound engineer that needs to EQ a show, I really don't need much sound isolation to know that my recording is clean and my levels are well balanced.
The point is that buying headphones can be, and usually is, a process of balancing features to need. That's why I have separate phones for my field rig, my home/max enjoyment rig, and my work rig.
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For remote recording, isolation is needed. For listening/mixing, accurate reproduction. Could be a set of buds (under ear muffs in some cases) for the former.
Expanding on this a bit...I mean, don't buy open back headphones and take them in the field, but all I can control is level and balance on my rig anyway. Unless I'm a sound engineer that needs to EQ a show, I really don't need much sound isolation to know that my recording is clean and my levels are well balanced.
The point is that buying headphones can be, and usually is, a process of balancing features to need. That's why I have separate phones for my field rig, my home/max enjoyment rig, and my work rig.
FWIW I'm generally in this camp, and for field monitoring, I use earbuds. For me personally, all I want to generally know is whether there's distortion or something "wrong". Unless the thing is being live-streamed or something, I rarely ever even get headphones out at all. I have separate pairs for home listening (Denon ADH7000), nicer portable listening, and other portable listening. It's not that I'm collecting them so much as I don't break headphones very often :)
But yeah, no headphone is "perfect". I really love the Audeze LCD series, which are $$$ and very neutral, almost like the DPA mics of headphones. But they are also huge and open-back and so neutral that they might 'bother' you for music listening. It all really depends.
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I mix regularly and use AT-40/AT-50's. I also have a set of custom ears that I use for the super loud shows(95db+). From where I am sitting in the Aud I get enough isolation using the AT's when the db's are 85-95 range. Anything above that and I am using in-ears. Just my .02
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Sennheiser HD800 - the most 'monitor-like' cans around. Very flat frequency response, ultra-low bass extension, excellent dynamics/transients, widest/deepest soundstage, imaging, the list goes on. Trouble is you really need to spend another 2x - 3x - 4x on a DAC and amp to get the best out of them.
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Sennheiser HD800 - the most 'monitor-like' cans around. Very flat frequency response, ultra-low bass extension, excellent dynamics/transients, widest/deepest soundstage, imaging, the list goes on. Trouble is you really need to spend another 2x - 3x - 4x on a DAC and amp to get the best out of them.
For $1500, they better come with dinner and a happy ending.
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Another very popular headphone for recordists and broadcasters (you seem them on TV announcers at live events all of the time, usually with a boom mic attached) is the Sennheiser HD-25-1 IIs. I own the following headphones/earbuds and my 2 cents on each:
Sony M7506 - very good, mostly neutral sound at less than $100 - not great isolation; I mostly use these at my desk for file review and editing
Sennheiser HD-25-1 II: comparable to the Sony's sound, but perhaps a little less low end. They are smaller and isolate better than the Sony's - I use these primarily for recording
HiFiMan HE500 - open back, huge, heavy, great sound when properly driven - I use them only for music listening in my comfy "music chair"
Westone W30 buds - very good sound, great isolation (~-25 dB), I use in loud situations during recording and general music listening when traveling, especially on planes
ATH-M50 - decent sound, not as neutral as the Sonys and Senns, not very comfortable after the pads start to stiffen. I don't use them any more - my wife likes them when she is walking on the treadmill, however. They isolate somewhere between the 7506 and the Senns
I think the HD-25-1 IIs are the most versatile in my collection from a recording standpoint.
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Near field flat response monitor speakers are the best for putting final touches on a mix, but if you need to use headphones, make sure they are comfortable, are of the open design variety and produce as neutral sound as possible.
Start here for a good selection at any price
http://www.acqurate.com/55920df27ec4866a694f60e5
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Been using Shure SRH440's and they have been working out nicely for myself especially when I don't have the oppurtunity to listen with my speakers (KRK's)
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I'm not comfortable making low bass and treble EQ mix decisions without speaker listening.
I'm not comfortable making decisions on the audibility of details and without headphone listening.
Senn HD650 is the best for me so far.
Like to try the HD700 and HD800 sometime, and the Audeze LCDs
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..with Focusrite VRM Box to check virtual mix compatibility..
Can you tell me more about this device?
How well it works, how you use it, what you do and don't like about it, etc.
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..with Focusrite VRM Box to check virtual mix compatibility..
Can you tell me more about this device?
How well it works, how you use it, what you do and don't like about it, etc.
More here >> http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=144941.msg1865867#msg1865867
Basically I only use it to check mixes "virtually" thru modeling of different types of playback systems and rooms. I wouldn't recommend it to replace traditional reference standard DAC's and powered near field monitors.
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Ha, forgot about that thread, thanks.
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A few people have mentioned earbuds but seriously, why not IEMs? Sound isolation, small size and clarity if you get good ones. Just make sure you try all the eartips to get the right fit.
Shure made some of the first IEMs and while the field is crowded now I have never been disappointed in the Shures. (Unlike Etymotics which to me are sterile.)
I am partial to the Shure SE line--I have the SE 535 for home listening, which are fantastic, and SE 315 for portable, which make planes and trains a lot more fun. I'd guess the SE215 are good enough to tell you what you need while you're recording.
But other IEMs are also probably good in the field, and lots of companies make them now. Decide on your budget and Google around to places like head-fi.org.
http://www.head-fi.org/f/103/portable-headphones-earphones-and-in-ear-monitors
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I have bought from here before - really great resource just to do research:
http://www.headphone.com/ (http://www.headphone.com/)
+1 on the IEM recommendation. The dealer I linked has a lot to choose from in that category. I have a relatively inexpensive set of Etymotics, and the isolation is outstanding. Been using them with live recording for years. I used them for the first time on a long plane ride a couple weeks back, and I'll never fly without them again. I don't agree that they're "sterile", but they do have un-hyped bass so that may take some getting used to.
http://www.headphone.com/collections/in-ear/products/etymotic-mc5 (http://www.headphone.com/collections/in-ear/products/etymotic-mc5)
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I like and trust my old but gold Etymotic ER4S IEMs. I do make my own foam plugs for them by leather-punching a hole through my preferred high-isolation foam earplugs, which makes all the difference with them for me- better fit, more solid bass response, maximal isolation.
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The sonys have been and still are the field recording industry standard. They are also ridiculously popular in the studio. They are relatively flat, cheap, easy to drive and very revealing... They don't isolate like an iem, but they do the job. The AT's are more fun to listen to, but that's not the purpose of this discussion... If you are not going to use a headpohne amp, you'll have a hard time driving any of these headphones at a loud concert with just the headphone output of your digital recorder... These are more expensive than the aforementioned Sony's but they were designed specifically for the ohm of phones and mp3 players. Your digital recorder will drive these loud! Plus I think they sound as good as many of the audiophile headphones like the Beyer dt880 or the sennheisers....http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/B00NBMHYGM/s=sd/ref=cm_cr_dp_aw_see_rcnt
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Agreed with IEM rec (I think I posted about them earlier in the thread). There really is no reason not to use in ears IMO, especially when comparing to on or over ear headphones in a rock show environment. Waaaaay better isolation apwhich alows for lower listening levels and better, more accurate reproduction. I use Shures too and they're great
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I use AKG K271 MK II
Very neutral sound.
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One potential deal-breaker is speed/ease of use. Closed-back over-ear phones are easiest to quickly don or toss-off as necessary. Putting in IEM's is less quick and easy.
For maximum isolation, nothing will exceed the isolation a pair of IEMs using expanding foam plugs plus a set of "noise muff" style hearing protectors over them (like the kind used by airport workers or at a shooting range). Although it looks kind of funny.