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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: Weirdness on July 24, 2005, 10:32:20 AM
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I am considering picking up a DAC1. Got a line on a used piece, but supposedly it's a 2003 model which the guy implied was only a 96/24 converter meaning that the newer revisions will do 192/24. I am considering going this route rather than a high end redbook CD player due to the fact that it is fully "futureproof" and will handle any signal up to 192/24 as I upgrade my recording rig and begin to collect other high resolution recordings. Anyone know anything about this thing being changed or revised over the past few years?
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Well, It's not completely "future proof" in that it can't handle DSD/SACD. Also, how many 24 bit 192 kHz recordings to you own? If the price is right, I'd go for the used older model.
-Noah
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From what I have heard, the DSD/SACD format is not likely going to be one that lasts well into the future. A lack of consumer acceptance and software seems to be what points toward this notion. As always, time will tell, but I'll bet a betamax player that this will be the case. I do not have any 192/24 recordings, nor do I have any 96/24 recordings at the present time, but I do forsee in the future that this will be a useable format, my point being that if I am going to throw a grand at getting better playback, having high resolution capability would be a better bet then something that strictly does 44.1/16. A V3 as an example will encode at 192 even though there is not much that will record it, so I would like to have that possibility open if it should become an option in the future. I am not someone who continually upgrades my gear but rather someone who tries to make the best informed decision that I can to purchase something that is built to last and that will give good sound and longevity in my system which is why this unit seems like a good bet.
Anyone that owns one of these care to comment on how happy you are with it or how well it works in your system?
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Do a search here. There are several reviews. I tried to get a consensus ranking between the Benchmark, Mytek, Bel Canto 2, and the Grace. There were quite a few firsthand reports of specific boxes but not as many head to head comparisons as I was hoping for and no one would rank them. They are all in the same price range for used (except I have not seen a used Grace unit yet).
IMHO, you are absolutely on the right track. To me "future proof" means that there will be some segment of the used market that will want to buy the thing should I decide to move up or move on to a different format. I sold my 16/48 CAL Sigma II which I absolutely loved but I knew that the end of the 16/48 used market is very close. Even if you aren't into the perpetual upgrade cycle, keep in mind that there may be new technologies like upsampling digital switching amps that would eliminate the need for the outboard DAC. If you move to one of those, then you should be able to sell the 192/24 unit to help fund the upgrade. I'm not saying that the 24/96 box is a door stop, but the better technology you get today the longer it will hold resale value.
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i own a benchmark and i think it's a pretty nice box, but my DVD-A player doesn't output above 24/48, so the benchmark is only used for cd now. for 24/96 and higher dvd-a i use the player's internal dac's
so i've been thinking of selling my dac-1 actually...
sorry i didn't answer your question, you just got me thinking....
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So... you musn't be that impressed with the DAC1 if you'd rather ditch it rather than find a DVD player that will put out at 96/24 I take it...
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I tried to get a consensus ranking between the Benchmark, Mytek, Bel Canto 2, and the Grace. There were quite a few firsthand reports of specific boxes but not as many head to head comparisons as I was hoping for and no one would rank them. They are all in the same price range for used (except I have not seen a used Grace unit yet).
well, a few of us did a head-to-head comparison of the benchmark to the Grace 901. results from the listening day can be found here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=41121.0
as far as finding any Grace headphone amp/DAC used, well, I've seen one model 901 for sale on Audiogon, but just one. the 901, like the benchmark, is limited to 24/96. However, if 24/192 is something that is important to you, you may want to look into the Grace 902, as that DAC supports 192kHz.
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The reason that I was asking about this is because the original DAC1 was supposedly capable of 96/24 and would upsample to this rate. The current piece claims to be a 192/24 converter and in the owners manual claims that it will accept a signal up to 24/195k. I believe at this point I have answered my own question, it does seem that this piece has been changed since it first came out. I also read that the 5 year warranty is not transferable from the first owner, so these two points make me think that a couple of hundred bucks for the newer piece may be worthwhile.
I'll post my thoughts if I end up pulling the trigger on this puppy...
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older one might be a good choice if you can get it for a good price.
IMHO there will not be too many times you are playing back 192KHz material for at least the next year or so, and probably much longer.
Hell, you can't even get a 24/96 digi signal out of many of the hi-res PCM releases these days, (I think many are truncated on playback to 24/48).
You might be doing field recording at 192KHz sometime soon but that seems like overkill for many of the shows we tape at (read, taping a PA system), 96 KHz seems like a reasonable limit for this stuff, consider the amount of space required, at 24/96 2 GB/ hour, 24/192 = 4 GB/hr. That can add up to a lot of space, though with how cheap DVD and hard drives are maybe you don't mind.
Just thinking out loud... since there is a new version maybe you can score the old one for a killer deal. ;D
Take care,
Ben
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>>So... you musn't be that impressed with the DAC1 if you'd rather ditch it rather than find a DVD player that will put out at 96/24 I take it...<<
it's not that at all. my dvd player is pretty damn good on it's own as a standalone cd/dvd-a player. it's got quad wolfson dac's per channel
the benchmark is great, but then i kind of got a player that made owning the benchmark unnecessary
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What DVD player did you pick up???
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arcam dv27a. i love audiogon!
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Just picked one of these puppies up this afternoon and so far it sounds fantastic!!! Found a deal on the latest version that was about the same as they seem to go for used, so it had to be done. Gobs of detail, really nice bottom end. Apparently it needs some break in as most components do, but right out of the box it really sings!!!
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nice, congrats on the new toy!
fwiw - if there's going to be another gathering and people would like to have a shoot out among the various dacs I would be willing to ship my Bel Canto DAC2 out
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Just picked one of these puppies up this afternoon and so far it sounds fantastic!!! Found a deal on the latest version that was about the same as they seem to go for used, so it had to be done. Gobs of detail, really nice bottom end. Apparently it needs some break in as most components do, but right out of the box it really sings!!!
very nice, I'm sure you'll enjoy it :)
fwiw - if there's going to be another gathering and people would like to have a shoot out among the various dacs I would be willing to ship my Bel Canto DAC2 out
Tim, it looks like there is going to be another listening session up here in New England this September, with at least my grace and Carl's benchmark for DAC's. thanks for your kind offer. If Nick or Carl doesn't see this, I'll be sure to pass along the info :)
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sounds good... just keep me posted :)
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24/192 ?
Does anyone take stock in 24/176.4 ?
It downsamples to redbook better and faster from what I've been told.
It is also a DVD-A standard.
Para-Futurists are stating that RedBook CD is likely to be around for at least six to ten more years........... ::)
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I had heard from someone that true upsampling must equal a multiple of 44.1, so 176.4 is supposedly a more accurate way of upsampling. Don't know all that much about it, but it was someone in a HiFi store that told me this.
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I had heard from someone that true upsampling must equal a multiple of 44.1, so 176.4 is supposedly a more accurate way of upsampling. Don't know all that much about it, but it was someone in a HiFi store that told me this.
makes sense to me...