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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: chazwars on January 17, 2008, 09:37:19 AM
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Okay, so you know how some people should not own certain types of equipment even though the gear is very handy? Well I am that guy when it comes to the JB3. I've had about 5 taping experiences with one and every time I run into some sort of issue. Last night was no exception. The batteries pooped on the deck and what happens...I lose all data from the show. Man, is this the new world of recording? Do I have to be PERFECT or risk losing everything? I'm getting frustrated over here and may switch back to DAT. I just don't want to deal with the headaches of converting all the audio to .wav.
So, what I want to know is if there is a deck that has the following:
-Easy plug and play into a PC system where I don't have to go searching around for recordings. It just syncs up.
-Recording info on a drive that is being saved while recording, rather than having to be stopped and saved.
-Some deck that lasts more than 3 hours on batteries. (I am posting on remote power to get info on the JB3 power issue)
Really, I just need to get a good bit bucket that isn't gonna bust my balls on price and cause so many problems.
peace.
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sorry for your troubles. i have never had any kind of problem with the jb3, and since it is 16bit, it can record for a long long time, and has an auto split feature so you dont lose music. i use red chair notmad explorer to d/l shows off the jb3 and it cant be much easier.
are you using 2 batteries inside the jb3? or just a single battery? you should be using two, but even if you are, it may be time to look into getting a fresh set of batteries.
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Yeah i have to tell you, the JB3 was the greatest fucking recorder. I just wish it was a little smaller for stealthing purposes. I could set that thing to record and forget about it for the whole evening with the two batteries in it. I never had a single problem with it for the several years I used it.
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Last night was no exception. The batteries pooped on the deck and what happens...I lose all data from the show. Man, is this the new world of recording? Do I have to be PERFECT or risk losing everything? I'm getting frustrated over here and may switch back to DAT. I just don't want to deal with the headaches of converting all the audio to .wav.
Wow, I want to see batteries crap all over a deck. ;D
I think you meant popped...
But I'm also missing something. I think what you are looking for is something that doesn't exist at least in the FAT-16/32 world. You want a recorder that records and if you have sudden failure, you can recover everything up to that point. MARF does that, but that is a proprietary format developed by Zaxcom for the Deva and you don't even want to think about how much that will set you back. The biggest flaw in the current crop of hard drive recorders is that they all use common FAT-16/32 formats, which is not a fault-tolerant format. That doesn't mean you have to give up on the current crop of recorders, but you do have to be aware of certain things. One of the nice things the SD 7xx series (Aaton Cantar, Zaxcom Deva, and a few others) does is it allows you to record to multiple medias, so if you are recording on the internal drive and an external drive, you at least have the opportunity of trying to salvage the audio from two sources.
The bottom line is hard drive recording does take a bit more care than DAT. But really it's not much more care, and the fact that you no longer have to transfer data real-time like you did with DAT helps a lot.
I'm sure others with more experience with other recorders will chime in here.
Wayne
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Last night was no exception. The batteries pooped on the deck and what happens...I lose all data from the show. Man, is this the new world of recording? Do I have to be PERFECT or risk losing everything? I'm getting frustrated over here and may switch back to DAT. I just don't want to deal with the headaches of converting all the audio to .wav.
Wow, I want to see batteries crap all over a deck. ;D
I think you meant popped...
But I'm also missing something. I think what you are looking for is something that doesn't exist at least in the FAT-16/32 world. You want a recorder that records and if you have sudden failure, you can recover everything up to that point. MARF does that, but that is a proprietary format developed by Zaxcom for the Deva and you don't even want to think about how much that will set you back. The biggest flaw in the current crop of hard drive recorders is that they all use common FAT-16/32 formats, which is not a fault-tolerant format. That doesn't mean you have to give up on the current crop of recorders, but you do have to be aware of certain things. One of the nice things the SD 7xx series (Aaton Cantar, Zaxcom Deva, and a few others) does is it allows you to record to multiple medias, so if you are recording on the internal drive and an external drive, you at least have the opportunity of trying to salvage the audio from two sources.
The bottom line is hard drive recording does take a bit more care than DAT. But really it's not much more care, and the fact that you no longer have to transfer data real-time like you did with DAT helps a lot.
I'm sure others with more experience with other recorders will chime in here.
Wayne
Thanks Wayne. That makes a whole lot of sense. And yes, my unit actually poops all over. It is rather disgusting but keeps the drunk people away from the gear. ;D
sorry for your troubles. i have never had any kind of problem with the jb3, and since it is 16bit, it can record for a long long time, and has an auto split feature so you dont lose music. i use red chair notmad explorer to d/l shows off the jb3 and it cant be much easier.
are you using 2 batteries inside the jb3? or just a single battery? you should be using two, but even if you are, it may be time to look into getting a fresh set of batteries.
Yep, prolly time to pick a few extras. I went through the remote power section and found a thread explaining various external options. I am going to rig one up today and try it out tonight in the field.
What I wonder, and maybe I just need to tinker with the unit, if if I were to press FF during a recording, would this save the previous track and start a new one? If this previous track were saved, at least I could salvage that part.
Thank you for the input. I guess I just needed to VENT a little frustration. I am a lowly infant child in the vast world of HD recording. Mommy...I miss D8.
peace.
Charlie
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What I wonder, and maybe I just need to tinker with the unit, if if I were to press FF during a recording, would this save the previous track and start a new one? If this previous track were saved, at least I could salvage that part.
That works. I've had to do it when I knew batteries were about to die, and at least the majority of the set gets saved.
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Ahhhhh....well now you tell me!!!! ::) JK.
Thx. I'll test it out tonight as well.
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What I wonder, and maybe I just need to tinker with the unit, if if I were to press FF during a recording, would this save the previous track and start a new one? If this previous track were saved, at least I could salvage that part.
That works. I've had to do it when I knew batteries were about to die, and at least the majority of the set gets saved.
Correct. Keep an eye on battery life so if that sucker drops to a single bar of batt life you hit FF and you're saved up to that point. Not seamless, though, so wait until between songs.
Also if you set up the recording at "continuous", once you reach the 2:59 recording limit a new track automatically begins while saving the other. That way if it's a long show and you're not there when the time limit is reached, it'll do the work for you.
Bottom line, if you have 2 fully charged batts in that jb3 you don't have to even look at the thing until about the 5 hour mark (of power on time). Even then you'll have a decent amount of time left.
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What I wonder, and maybe I just need to tinker with the unit, if if I were to press FF during a recording, would this save the previous track and start a new one? If this previous track were saved, at least I could salvage that part.
That works. I've had to do it when I knew batteries were about to die, and at least the majority of the set gets saved.
Correct. Keep an eye on battery life so if that sucker drops to a single bar of batt life you hit FF and you're saved up to that point. Not seamless, though, so wait until between songs.
Also if you set up the recording at "continuous", once you reach the 2:59 recording limit a new track automatically begins while saving the other. That way if it's a long show and you're not there when the time limit is reached, it'll do the work for you.
Bottom line, if you have 2 fully charged batts in that jb3 you don't have to even look at the thing until about the 5 hour mark (of power on time). Even then you'll have a decent amount of time left.
2 of the stock batteries is the way to go - most of the external solutions were created due to a shortage of batteries - which seems to be over...plenty on ebay.
Also - make sure you go into "Rescue Mode" and do a "Clean Up" - you may well be able to retrieve the lost track.
Also puzzled by this statement:
I just don't want to deal with the headaches of converting all the audio to .wav.
Your files should already be in wav when they come off the recorder...
Really, I just need to get a good bit bucket that isn't gonna bust my balls on price and cause so many problems.
You have it - I think the JB3 is the most reliable and proven recorder out there...
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I'm getting frustrated over here and may switch back to DAT.
come back to the dark side!
peace,
ts
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Also puzzled by this statement:
I just don't want to deal with the headaches of converting all the audio to .wav.
Your files should already be in wav when they come off the recorder...
I took this to mean if he switched back to DAT, not if he stayed with the JB3.
Wayne
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/me still an M1 user.
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Also puzzled by this statement:
I just don't want to deal with the headaches of converting all the audio to .wav.
Your files should already be in wav when they come off the recorder...
I took this to mean if he switched back to DAT, not if he stayed with the JB3.
Wayne
Ahh - yes. Thanks...makes more sense.
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you can find new batteries on ebay. at one time they were hard to come by as only creative sold them, but i think there is an aftermarket company making them now.
here is a listing on ebay for one. the same seller is selling a ton of them and reasonably priced at $25 shipped.
http://tinyurl.com/2pxdet
as stated above, with 2 batteries, 5hrs+ recording time = no worries!
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it's back to dat. unfortunately my m1 is not retracting the tape all the way into the shell when i eject. i can get it out but it involves little screw drivers. try and do this during a show when you are stealthing. onto your battery popping out issue. whenever something bad happens you have to figure out a cure. i have never seen a jb3. try using a heavy duty rubber around the whole device to prevent the batts frrom popping out. or use some heavy duty gaffers tape. i used a right angle 1/8" to get the mics into my m1. the first time i used the connector it kept popping out. after that i used a rubber band to hold the connector in. never had a problem after that. i have seen others do this with the iriver.
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Hey Willie, he means pooping out, not popping out. :)
Pooped on him again tonight. Weird issue, like when it overheats. It simply stopped running at 54 minutes into the second set. :-\
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Also if you set up the recording at "continuous", once you reach the 2:59 recording limit a new track automatically begins while saving the other. That way if it's a long show and you're not there when the time limit is reached, it'll do the work for you.
Thanx for this set up !! i didn't know that i can do like this ..
but one question : it is seamless like the doing "FF" ??
thanx a lot
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Also if you set up the recording at "continuous", once you reach the 2:59 recording limit a new track automatically begins while saving the other. That way if it's a long show and you're not there when the time limit is reached, it'll do the work for you.
Thanx for this set up !! i didn't know that i can do like this ..
but one question : it is seamless like the doing "FF" ??
thanx a lot
I don't think FF is seamless, actually. I'd hit it between tunes if at all possible. :)
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Okay, so you know how some people should not own certain types of equipment even though the gear is very handy? Well I am that guy when it comes to the JB3. I've had about 5 taping experiences with one and every time I run into some sort of issue. Last night was no exception. The batteries pooped on the deck and what happens...I lose all data from the show. Man, is this the new world of recording? Do I have to be PERFECT or risk losing everything? I'm getting frustrated over here and may switch back to DAT. I just don't want to deal with the headaches of converting all the audio to .wav.
So, what I want to know is if there is a deck that has the following:
-Easy plug and play into a PC system where I don't have to go searching around for recordings. It just syncs up.
-Recording info on a drive that is being saved while recording, rather than having to be stopped and saved.
-Some deck that lasts more than 3 hours on batteries. (I am posting on remote power to get info on the JB3 power issue)
Really, I just need to get a good bit bucket that isn't gonna bust my balls on price and cause so many problems.
peace.
Charlie,
Let's look at the positive here:
Better to poop out in a room full of tapers than when you are alone!
Better to replace a small inexpensive popular deck than a large expensive crappy (stickin' with the poop theme) deck.
Are you looking at ease only or size too?
My Tascam HD-P2 is pretty easy to use. Not so good for stealthing unless you have deep pockets! I can give you info on it.
Also when I had my JB3, I used external power, until I found a second battery. That may be an option. The unit does however require a bit of "remembering the routine" as most decks do. I find that with the Tascam, I can do no wrong.
Cliff
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Get a iriver H120 or H140 and your set. The HDD can be swapped out, the battery can be swapped out, rockbox is excellent and its tiny. I've never had a problem with my h140.
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I have a long run Li-On battery for sale in the Yard Sale. It works great for powering a JB3 for a day.
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^^^ Nice plug ^^^
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Look into a MTI 24/96 or iRiver
;D
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Sorry, I had to get to Florida for a few days. It's like -20 in Minnesota right now. :o :o :o
So Dean let the cat outta da bag. The freggin' deck froze up. And, I really, really wanted to impress a girl with this recording. Oh well, hey Dean, you gotta copy for me :)
Here's the deal. Everything worked out "okay" for the first set of GBA. I did notice some drop outs and poppin' (not pooooping) sounds. Otherwise, the show itself recorded correctly.
Then, I shut down the JB3 between sets. I fired it back up, never unplugging cables, etc. Everything was working great. I was even getting levels on the SVU-2, etc. Dean had a little issue with a drunk guy thinking it was a good idea to dump beer on his gear, so I took my rain cover out of my Nova and loosely covered up everything. I came back a few times and all was well. End of show: Froze up at 54 minutes and all was lost. Unit was not warm, and cables were all in their proper order. I tried the clean up mode, etc. and the data was gone to the gods. This is the second show in two days that I walk away without something. G. Love, I came away with nothing, and GBA, I only got the first set.
I am running out of options here. It sounds like a possible deck issue but I also know that this has some operator error. When the batteries died, I was only running one battery. I am picking up an external pack from YS. The second night, batteries weren't a problem. Was it heat? Was it the deck? I don't know. There is another JB3 in YS I could pick up, though. Do I want to try again?
I looked at the MTII reviews in Tech. Support. Doesn't seem like a good purchase at this time. I will do a little research on the Iriver and see what those are looking like for pricing. Good suggestion on the Tascam Cliff, but I am only looking for a bit bucket. It would be a good investment for future indeavors. For now, I'd better stick with some basics, like any freggin' recorder that works.
So, I guess this has turned into a JB3 vs. MT vs. iRiver debate. What would the best one be in used condition? I know it depends on users, experience, etc.
steamin' taper guy ???,
Charlie
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You may want to think about swapping out hard drives. i'm running two JB3's right now and never had any freezing issues when running off of my batteries. One i've had for two years and tape 1-2 shows a month and the other I've had for 6 months. Your situation is an exception and not the standard when it comes to the Jb3. I know that is not what you want ot hear. I have an extra 2GB I can send you. I have no use for it.
Mako
PS Is the JB3 seamless when using the continous option at the 2:59 mark?
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Charlie is this the NJB3 you bought from me or a different one? With two batteries I never had trouble getting 10+ hours and even worked out great at festivals. The main problem I did have was over heat which happen once inside in a bar and then this year at HSMF w/ 107 degree temps under two umbrellas. External batteries is the cheapest route and is fairly easy to make a DIY converter down to 5 volts w/ rat shack parts for around $12.
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UHiVR5TK5jzEkaWS3EsG6FCJ45tX_lr15mHqtcH74s91-nLZcCYSlgW8SAdFZ0kTIGDBBzQfP4cQpVEF0dhxPw/Voltage%20regulators%20are%20re.doc
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Charlie is this the NJB3 you bought from me or a different one? With two batteries I never had trouble getting 10+ hours and even worked out great at festivals. The main problem I did have was over heat which happen once inside in a bar and then this year at HSMF w/ 107 degree temps under two umbrellas. External batteries is the cheapest route and is fairly easy to make a DIY converter down to 5 volts w/ rat shack parts for around $12.
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UHiVR5TK5jzEkaWS3EsG6FCJ45tX_lr15mHqtcH74s91-nLZcCYSlgW8SAdFZ0kTIGDBBzQfP4cQpVEF0dhxPw/Voltage%20regulators%20are%20re.doc
Nope. the crackhead fairies got that one!!! I am on number 3 of JB3's.
I picked up an external off of the YS, but it doesn't hurt to have an few. I will give that link a shot.
Thanks Jim.
-charlie
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Charlie is this the NJB3 you bought from me or a different one? With two batteries I never had trouble getting 10+ hours and even worked out great at festivals. The main problem I did have was over heat which happen once inside in a bar and then this year at HSMF w/ 107 degree temps under two umbrellas. External batteries is the cheapest route and is fairly easy to make a DIY converter down to 5 volts w/ rat shack parts for around $12.
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UHiVR5TK5jzEkaWS3EsG6FCJ45tX_lr15mHqtcH74s91-nLZcCYSlgW8SAdFZ0kTIGDBBzQfP4cQpVEF0dhxPw/Voltage%20regulators%20are%20re.doc
Nope. the crackhead fairies got that one!!! I am on number 3 of JB3's.
I picked up an external off of the YS, but it doesn't hurt to have an few. I will give that link a shot.
Thanks Jim.
-charlie
Man you are a very patient guy and have put up w/ way more crap then I ever did only owning one NJB3. If you ever get sick of this shit I would go w/ a two and one box like the 660 or FRLE. They both are very nice decks w/ the FRLE able to record in 24 bit. Good luck.
PEace
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Sorry, I had to get to Florida for a few days. It's like -20 in Minnesota right now. :o :o :o
So Dean let the cat outta da bag. The freggin' deck froze up. And, I really, really wanted to impress a girl with this recording. Oh well, hey Dean, you gotta copy for me :)
Here's the deal. Everything worked out "okay" for the first set of GBA. I did notice some drop outs and poppin' (not pooooping) sounds. Otherwise, the show itself recorded correctly.
Then, I shut down the JB3 between sets. I fired it back up, never unplugging cables, etc. Everything was working great. I was even getting levels on the SVU-2, etc. Dean had a little issue with a drunk guy thinking it was a good idea to dump beer on his gear, so I took my rain cover out of my Nova and loosely covered up everything. I came back a few times and all was well. End of show: Froze up at 54 minutes and all was lost. Unit was not warm, and cables were all in their proper order. I tried the clean up mode, etc. and the data was gone to the gods. This is the second show in two days that I walk away without something. G. Love, I came away with nothing, and GBA, I only got the first set.
I am running out of options here. It sounds like a possible deck issue but I also know that this has some operator error. When the batteries died, I was only running one battery. I am picking up an external pack from YS. The second night, batteries weren't a problem. Was it heat? Was it the deck? I don't know. There is another JB3 in YS I could pick up, though. Do I want to try again?
I looked at the MTII reviews in Tech. Support. Doesn't seem like a good purchase at this time. I will do a little research on the Iriver and see what those are looking like for pricing. Good suggestion on the Tascam Cliff, but I am only looking for a bit bucket. It would be a good investment for future indeavors. For now, I'd better stick with some basics, like any freggin' recorder that works.
So, I guess this has turned into a JB3 vs. MT vs. iRiver debate. What would the best one be in used condition? I know it depends on users, experience, etc.
steamin' taper guy ???,
Charlie
I don't know much, but I know it was not the heat. I would not say it was hot in the Cabooze that night even with the cover closed.
Not sure if you saw this to D/L the show. If you don't have access let me know and I'll burn you a copy.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=512498 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=512498)
And Dean, I'd love to hear how the HO Omni's sounded. I'd be happy to trade copies! ;D
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Hey Cliff! I don't think it was an overheat, either. It behaved like one, though, the way it simply froze & became inoperable. That's the weird thing. And while Charlie did cover his bag with the rain cover, which would definitely cause it to heat up a bit, I'd be STUNNED if it got warm enough to overheat the jb3. The problem is it didn't seem like a battery issue, where you'd think the unit would simply shut off/power down.
Charlie - any JB3 problems running the next night at the "drunks on the pole" show?
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In my personal experience I found it did not take much to over heat the NJB3 so I took off the plastic cover plate and was okay until I braved 107 at HSMF.
Peace
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Hey Cliff! I don't think it was an overheat, either. It behaved like one, though, the way it simply froze & became inoperable. That's the weird thing. And while Charlie did cover his bag with the rain cover, which would definitely cause it to heat up a bit, I'd be STUNNED if it got warm enough to overheat the jb3. The problem is it didn't seem like a battery issue, where you'd think the unit would simply shut off/power down.
Charlie - any JB3 problems running the next night at the "drunks on the pole" show?
If it was heat, it would appear his unit is overly sensitive to heat. I only had mine shut down during a summer festival where it was over 100. However if that unit is really sensitive to heat, it would should be easy to reproduce.
Maybe your unit kept running because of the cooling from the beer spilled. ::)
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Again, I really don't think it was an overheat. My experience with overheat is the same as yours, Cliff - 100+ degrees in the sun, outdoors. Yikes!
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you could try reformatting the hardrive, i guess.
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you could try reformatting the hardrive, i guess.
This is a good habit to get into after you transfer and store a show. I have carried on this habit even w/ my R4 and it seems to make a huge difference.
Peace