Author Topic: SONY PCM D-50 quick defective and a Flaw in design? (Read 11214 times)

headroom · « **on:** March 14, 2008, 10:11:31 AM »

I was on job for 4 weeks in the Phillipines where my Sony died exactly after 80 days of use. One mike channel is dead and it eats up the bat in 15 minutes, the other channel has a strong high frequency noise. Only coping over the USB Connection worked. Was lucky to bring the old Microtack I as backup with me and the Art Phantom Supply.

Any other problems like this arround?

I was taking photographs 2 Weeks and recording at the same time in the philippines and missed so many good recordings becaus things damned thing was not triggering. The other 2 Weeks for Filmsound, with the Microtrack I never missed anyting.

The D-50 machine is good exept:

When you press Record on your Audio or Video recording Machinche, it should behave to do "recording", and not to stay in Standby mode!

What a Flaw SONY!

mrsoul · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2008, 10:30:45 AM »

I would be sending that monkey back to get replaced since it should still be under Sony warranty. While I have not put my PCM-D50 through the same trials, it has showed no problems since getting it last November. I have recorded Christmas Jam, New Year's Eve and 3 other shows since. I guess Wanee will be the main trial for me...
But, hope you get it back to Sony asap and get it replaced.

mrsoulMark

headroom · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2008, 11:03:09 AM »

Yes I trying to do. But the included PCM D-50 Sony Warranty Paper is complitely missinformational www.sony.com/service is not responable for this machine. I am from switzerland and its only US warranty ist short 90 days, whe have here one year.

So I recieved mail from SO NEVER ( transleted in our nativ swiss )

Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

We are really sorry, but you have reached Sony's consumer electronics and computer support center. Unfortunately we do not have access to the resources required to assist with Sony's Business & Professional products or systems. Please contact our Business & Professional support team for all assistance:

Phone: (866)-SONY-BPC
Mon - Fri 9:30am - 6:30pm (EST)

TIP: Detailed product and support information for Sony's
business products is also available online at:
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness

Your Sony Email Response Team
C651
Sophia

headroom · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2008, 11:19:34 AM »

Just came back from abroad. Exactly today is my 90 days warranty over and I am still wating for an response from Sony's business products.
I have informtion here in Switzerland Sony Pro Broadcast is only interested to sell expensive Pro Videocams, Audio Pro is starving " to less Profit " When the big brother PCM 1 came out, there was only a stock of 25 units in holland for whole Europe! A complaint from a swiss reseller make the difference to Chicken little 25 stock because, otherwise ZERO ZERO UNITS.

INSALATA MISTA BABY

goofy says thanks for moving it to recording gear "harhar"

dogmusic · « **Reply #4 on:** March 15, 2008, 08:43:53 AM »

Quote from: headroom on March 14, 2008, 11:47:59 AM

When you press Record on your Audio or Video recording Machinche, it should behave to do "recording", and not to stay in Standby mode!

The Zoom H4 acts the same way: The first push on the RECORD button puts it in standby, so you can check recording levels, and you need a second push to start recording.

I lost a really good cello performance on my very first use of the H4 when I forgot this!

mrsoul · « **Reply #5 on:** March 15, 2008, 08:51:59 AM »

All the Sony Hi-MDs do the same as well.

flintstone · « **Reply #6 on:** March 15, 2008, 01:20:06 PM »

Headroom,

You wrote, "...One mike channel is dead and it eats up the bat in 15 minutes, the other channel has a strong high frequency noise..."

Tell us more about these failures in your D50's electronics. Are you talking about the built-in mics, or the external mic input jack?

A dusty, humid climate like the Philippines can be tough on equipment. Did the D50 get wet? Were you recording where moisture from the ocean (mist, spray from waves) could have affected the D50? When you traveled, was the D50 packed in a case that might have been dropped?

Thanks.
Flintstone

headroom · « **Reply #7 on:** March 15, 2008, 02:27:51 PM »

My infos: one Micamp is dead internal + external. After working alone for 2 Weeks my Director Camerman and friend came over from switzerland and we wanted to do some filming and record the sound on the Sony. Tuesday morning before Videotaping I wanted do the setup. I was linking my brand new ART Phantombox in the Hotel with my AT 3031`s where the problem startet even with the internal Powersupply. There was no rain when i used the machine. I was in the citys Tabuk and Bagiou, in the Mountains not at the sea. Was Sunshine its beginning summertime now, Monsun is August September.
On location I had the recorder on my neck in a case. Packed within clothes while travelling inside a big bag. No dropping as far I now. We are travelling in privat Van and I loaded the bags myself.

Here you can see my taking photographs in Bagiou Cit, Kalinga on Luzon Illand
( after 2 Minutes with red shirt in the left corner)

Recorder was working at time on a Post behind the crowd with a friend watching over it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qwJwiXkb_I&NR=1

Here my red Bag and windprotection for the SONY: Rode SVM Dead Kitten

headroom · « **Reply #8 on:** March 15, 2008, 04:12:09 PM »

Filming on the roof with the Kalingas headhunters

headroom · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2008, 01:32:21 PM »

Really stupid only US warranty and SONY US say`s are not responsible.

Kafka is back?

here the answer from Sony broadcast:

This location is in the United States.

Please follow up with this customer in Switzerland.

From: Werner [mailto:fotog@vtxmail]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:27 AM
To: KC-WRPC BP Research
Subject: defective SONY warranty how to?

Hello I am trying since last weeek to get an correct information what to do for get Warranty for my defective PCM D 50 : I only have wrong nformation on the Warranty packed with the device. I am from switzerland an 800 numbers does not work I mailed Friday 03.14.08 uit get no response.

Greetings Werner

BayTaynt3d · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2008, 12:12:43 AM »

If you need production field gear, then use production field gear...

The sony ain't even close, heh...

headroom · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2008, 06:14:43 AM »

Why do you thinks so? Is this a mantra you read somewhere? Do you have a bit of Damage joy?
As far as I know I am the only one here with a problem.

Filming tis second time "every ounce counted" we hade so much overweight . I had 12 Kilo on my Backpack, smuggled in another 10 Kilos second Handbagage. Still payed 900$ Overweight. On the Flight back we counted 24 Kilos overweight but for Free this time. And we 3 smuggled 60 Kg Handbagage.

In general the SONY has a superp elegant size, design, is generation 2, with excellent sonic Quality.

The cold electronic design (non Class A ) has a lot do do with the quality of the sound. And Line in its hard to beat. Even the Miks are great. Why spend spend so much money ( Apogge SD Sonosax Catanar etc.) in gear? I was stupid not to by 2 of them because the are so cheap.
I have also a setup with Apogee Mini MP and Mini MP SPDIF out to Mictrotrack. Wich I use on location in Switzerland.

BayTaynt3d · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2008, 10:28:20 AM »

Quote from: headroom on March 18, 2008, 06:14:43 AM

I was stupid not to by 2 of them because the are so cheap.

All I'm saying is most folks around here are recording for a hobby. When it's more than that, when you absolutely can't afford failure in the field, that requires different planning. Bombproof pro gear can handle A LOT more abuse, but if size/weight is of that much concern, I think your comment above holds a lot of water. It all depends on how bad a failure in the field is going to play out for you. That's all I'm saying. Would I be surprised to see any of these small units fail in the field on occasion (R9, PMD660, D50, etc.)? No.

headroom · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2008, 11:24:39 AM »

My cheap Microtrack never let me down on the Philippine Job 2007/2008. Bevore I was working with Edirol R4 for 2 years. Used it for an other cinema movie* but it eats Battery like crazy. And the sound was dull.
The cheap devices are not always bad.

* Johle und Werche = Jodeling and Working a film about swiss traditon: singing an the living of the farmers in the swiss mountains

http://www.johleundwerche.ch/johlendwerche/Index.html

chucky · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2008, 11:53:10 AM »

That's strange, cause my MT is a piece of shit.
I would NEVER try to run it on a paying gig even if it was reliable.
Let's me down all the time, but for me it's just a hobby (as is for most here).

And I swear my Sony M1's/D8's all went into standby mode after just pushing record once.
I think that's quite common for Sony products, and not a problem at all once you know how to work the gear. It's actually quite useful as you can check levels without wasting precious CF space, especially
with the 2g split, although that's prolly not a problem with you.

I'm not really sure I understand this post at all, are you just trying to ask for advice on what to do with the defective D50 ? (I'm also not surprised to see it fail in the field ie. all around the world, doing location sound). Or are are you here to argue what gear is worthy to be ran as "production field gear"?... What's the problem again?

Also, a decent rig isn't going to be very noticable when your $900 over anyway.

headroom · « **Reply #15 on:** March 18, 2008, 01:11:02 PM »

No Support from SONY US and the device is still defective.
My MT only hung once ( drain the batt and loading again) and I taped over 20 GB 24 bit 48 KHz with no problems.

BayTaynt3d · « **Reply #16 on:** March 18, 2008, 09:45:26 PM »

Never said anything was "bad," but what I did say is I wouldn't trust a pro/paying gig/production with a single unit unless it was a seriously badass piece of gear -- and the sony, the R9, the 620, nor the microcrapper fit that description, LOL!

flintstone · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2008, 02:26:35 PM »

Headroom wrote: "I was linking my brand new ART Phantombox in the Hotel with my AT 3031`s where the problem startet even with the internal Powersupply."

This is just a guess, but I'm thinking that somehow the 48V DC from the ART was routed to the recorder and damaged it. Where (what country) did you purchase the PCM-D50? The Sony repair people for that region should take a look at your recorder without charge. You may need your receipt to prove where you purchased it.

Sony in USA will repair gear for a flat rate, fixing anything that is wrong. I'm guessing that the charge for electronics like the PCM-D50 would be around $250. If you can't get the problem fixed under warranty, I'd look for this sort of service.

I was quoted $200 to fix a Sony digital camera in USA. I had it fixed for $8 in Manila by the local Sony repair station. Maybe you should check with the local Sony authorized repair facility if you're still in the Philippines.

Flintstone

headroom · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2008, 01:29:41 PM »

...and maybe the moon is made of cheese. Harhar...
First thing I wa checking that morning in the hotel with my digital Multmeter if there is the Voltage or a cable break.
Its not possible that Phantom Power goes to the output stage. There are blocking caps by design hardwired. Even in the D-50 are they in the Signal Path, otherways we could not have "Plug in Power" ( aka Phantom Power 4 the poor ) Blocking caps allow only AC coming trough and not DC.
And the XLR Plugs are coded you cannot plug Out to IN Male Female system.

The defective intenal mics come alive when I shake hit the device. But only for a half second with lot of poops an cracking sound to.

Still wating from a serious response from Sony. I cannot phone them from my country only 800 numbers and nowhere another normal adress or faxnumber. They realy like to be coverd. Keep your profil Low. I cannot fill the form with my origin Switzerland, I have to fill in I am from "New York". So for 4 times they asked : are you from Switzerland and bought the device in the States. Uff I dont now if I have contact with a person wich cannot read my english??))(/&%çççZ%&/&/

I bought it from B&H and maybe I have to do the warranty with help from them.

headroom · « **Reply #19 on:** March 27, 2008, 10:36:13 AM »

Yesterday I sent a mail to Sony Broadcast with all infos + I get a response. Today a phone call from Sony Broadcast Switzerland, they will check my deviceand maybe

they give me Warranty. Its at Sony Switzerland now for checkup. I have to wait a long time now ....

Still nothing from SONY Broadcast US. A real pain in the a....

headroom · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2008, 06:31:13 AM »

There must me more D-50 with problems arround:

http://www.bradlinder.net/2007/10/comparing-sony-pcm-d50-fostex-fr2-le_06.html
scrool down to:

Graham Riches said...
Brad, I must first apologize to you and the readers who were interested in Sony pcm d50. I must have have caused a lot of unnecessary confusion and frustration around the Sony pcm d50 - Please don't panic!!. I was still not convinced that Sony would sound so bad with external mics and therefore contacted few dealers but they reported back they had used external mics and was equal to or same quality as fostex fr2 le.

So I decided to order another one on trial basis only. This new one looked and felt identical to mine but the sound quality was totally different. With internal mics its the same as before. But with external mics (mics used: Rode NTG2, NT4, NT1A, Shure SM58/SM57, AKG CS1000s, and AT882) it is actually the same quality as Fostex fr2 le but louder and also glad to announce that it is equal to pcm d1. So why does this one sound different to mine? I believe they had been a few faulty batches which were been shipped out ( this was not deliberate but was a mistake. As they gone into production various phase checks were done and few batches missed couple of phases which led to this). Anyhow I have sent mine for replacement and once again I am deeply sorry about this Brad and the readers within this Blog.

Any how the new results are as follows:

Internal Mics:

8.5/10

External MICs:

Shure sm58/sm57 10/10
Rode NTG2 9/10
Rode NT4 10/10
AkG CS1000 9/10
AT882 10/10
Rode NT1A 10/10

The quality is very very good with external mics!!, it is infact unbelievable. The sound quality can be described as very detailed and attacking. The noise levels are equal to fostex fr2 le but better than marantz 620 which is also good. The real beauty about this product is its mic pre-amps - it can be taken very loud so it works very well with dynamic mics too!. Both Marantz 620 and Sony d50 are good but Sony this time is a clear winner!!

headroom · « **Reply #21 on:** May 06, 2008, 03:18:58 AM »

Today I can pick up my PCM 50-D, Sertronic Switzerland fixed it for free. SONY US let me down with the warranty. This toy was long time off...

mrsoul · « **Reply #22 on:** May 06, 2008, 07:01:20 AM »

Sorry for your troubles. I have enjoyed my PCM-D50 since November in various conditions (not tropical remote yet) and have had no problems whatsoever that were not user error related

.

This is a great piece of equipment that I am very glad to have purchased. Some of my best recordings so far on this little gem. I have heard no other complaints of problems with the hardware.

I'm glad you got the repair for free. Too bad about Sony US. Blame it on Bush/Cheney's xenophobic view of the world infesting corporate USA too.

Best Regards,
mrsoulMark

headroom · « **Reply #23 on:** May 07, 2008, 09:46:48 AM »

Hi thanks for your kind writing.

They repaired the internal Microphone the Audio Board and another PC board. And it works again like new.

headroom · « **Reply #24 on:** May 30, 2008, 08:38:14 AM »

I was a working now with the Sony an I am very happy. The Micamp is very good and working with 2 DPA 4060, 1 Sanken CS3e and Audio Technica`s 3x 3031 6x 3032 modified by myself. Changed all Caps to Polypropylen and the Lytics to Rubicon Z/ZL. s

For now no problems with External 48 V+ Phantom devices like ART or Rolls anymore.
I bought a second unit from "the bay". Was a bit damaged outside, description from the seller: almost like new condition, a good joke! Oh I was making a long face when I opended the box.

I decided to open it. Was surprised how stabile and thick the metal case is. The internal design is abslouty very nice clean professional, not like the Microtrack.

Deal:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150242637574
Description
Used sparingly, I have since misplaced the power supply and all other accessories, I'm only selling the unit but has been fully tested using a universal ac adapter and I can guarantee that this is in 100% working condition and the cosmetic condition is also excellent in almost like new condition.

headroom · « **Reply #25 on:** September 03, 2008, 01:49:11 AM »

Hi all just bought the Remote from SONY its without PLAY Function again what a Flaw!
Only Record ( is on hold ) press Pause and it will record, stupid !

illconditioned · « **Reply #26 on:** September 03, 2008, 02:06:09 AM »

Dear Werner,

If you get a chance, please post some larger pictures of the guts. I'm particularly interested in how to disassemble, and also what the internal mics look like.

Yes, I believe this is a very well built unit. I don't trust Edirol, Microtrack, etc for low-noise build, but I do trust Sony. For design, maybe there are some mistakes, but build-wise it looks really good.

I've ordered one of these, and my goal is to run Countryman B3 with plug-in-power. I'll report back with my results.

Richard

nolonemo · « **Reply #27 on:** September 03, 2008, 11:49:38 AM »

Quote from: headroom on September 03, 2008, 01:49:11 AM

Hi all just bought the Remote from SONY its without PLAY Function again what a Flaw!
Only Record ( is on hold ) press Pause and it will record, stupid !

Since the remote has no play button, I would think it is apparent that there is no play function. Did you do any research before you bought?

headroom · « **Reply #28 on:** September 03, 2008, 12:08:40 PM »

Yes I always search the web. But the Swiss dealer could not help. And the pic with the remote was so small so I did not see it

flintstone · « **Reply #29 on:** September 03, 2008, 12:14:17 PM »

Just for the record, the Sony RM-PCM1 remote control
has four buttons: Record, Pause, Stop, and Divide. There
also is an indicator light that shows when you're recording.

The Divide function works only during playback of recorded
files. So I guess you have to start playback on the recorder
itself, then divide or stop using the remote.

Here's a big photo of the RM-PCM1
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/0/7/5/556075.jpg

Price of the RM-PCM1 is around $50.

markr041 · « **Reply #30 on:** September 03, 2008, 06:29:40 PM »

I am sorry, it is not true that the divide function only works for splitting already recorded files. The divide function works while recording to start instantaneously a new track. The remote is for remote recording, after having picked the appropriate settings. Then one can start the recording, pause it, restart, or start new tracks while continuing to record and then stop.

nolonemo · « **Reply #31 on:** September 03, 2008, 07:45:43 PM »

However, be aware that the divide is not completely clean, so you should only divide in a place where you don't mind a slight gap.

(about 5/8 down the page): http://transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200803_sony_pcmd50/

flintstone · « **Reply #32 on:** September 04, 2008, 12:31:42 AM »

Thanks for the correction. On page 25 of the manual (in the PDF file), it describes how to use the Divide button to start a new file while recording. On page 35, it says to use Divide during playback to split an existing file. Nice to have both uses of Divide.

Flintstone