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Author Topic: Team classical recording  (Read 107065 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #150 on: March 29, 2011, 11:55:57 AM »
now someone over at gearslutz has named this setup the "boojum/jnorman array" (boojum (sandy noyes) is a friend of mine up in astoria, with whom i discussed this approach and who also uses a similar setup in his work).  there is a fun discussion of the approach here:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/592570-first-try-w-boojum-jnorman-array-2-pairs-1-bar.html

have any of you guys tried similar kinds of setups, and what have your experiences been?  if you are using 4 mics, what is the rest of your signal chain - preamps, power supplies, recorder, etc.  thanks.

Hi John, I also like the flexibility of spaced omnis plus center directional mics and have talked a good bit about it with Sandy.  I just got back from Springfest last night (lots of strings, though non classical except for a very talented fellow playing solo Bach violin pieces around a campfire) and while there I realized that the new array I rigged to bring there essentially takes that idea to something of a logical geometric extreme. I had the Tetramic at the center (coincident directional patterns) with four omnis on telescopic outriggers pointing left/right and front/back.  Three of those were 4060s forming a good sized Decca tree with a 2 meter base and the fourth was a single Countryman B3 off the back of the tree acting as a single spaced surround channel (Decca surround diamond?)

I recorded the Tetramic via it’s own phantom power adapters directly into the DR-680 to take advantage of its channel ganging feature allowing me to keep those four input gains matched at all times plus a SBD feed into channels 5&6.  I ran the four spaced omni outriggers into an Oade CM R-44 via Niant PFA phantom power adaptors.  I only used the preamp sections of the recorders themselves. The two recorders were not synced and I have that work to do if I want to combine tracks.  I considered bringing the V3, which with a digital output would have let me run 8 synced channels on the DR-680, but wanted to keep things portable and less complex since it was my virgin run with the 680.  Including the SBD, I ended up recording 10 channels, with 8 of those from mics flown on one lightweight stand.  I tech-flexed the cabling to the Tetramic and omnis into a single snake and arranged things so I only needed to plug in the SBD feed for setup. It runs off two 9V ‘DVD-style’ lithium batteries for 15+ hrs of record time and everything worked out very well.

I haven't been over to GS in a while so I'll have to poke my head in again over there.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #151 on: March 29, 2011, 12:07:43 PM »
That's one fine DMS rig, notlance.Thanks to everyone for sharing interesting rigs and gigs and keeping this thread alive. 

we ran 6 mics the other night for the local symphony, a pair of Audix somethings on stage far left and right, a pair of Rode NT5 XY on a short stand directly in front of the conductor, and a pair of KM184 DFC of the camera pit in the balcony. Ran everything to a digi 003 console + laptop. Sounded pretty good while monitoring. Anyone else running XY at the conductor?

Curious to hear how you end up mixing the 3 pairs if you are involved in that portion of your production.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline RichT

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #152 on: March 29, 2011, 12:44:03 PM »
I usually record chamber music and more experimental stuff.

Depending on the gig (and how much kit I want to/can carry)  I'll run:
C480 / CK62 A-B omni pair and/or
C480 / CK61 Coincident cardioid XY pair (I usually prefer this to ORTF, gets a more solid centre) CK63 in bad rooms
on a K&M fixed 4 point bar. The older AKG clips are higher than the new ones so you can use them quite easily to get 2 heights for XY or ORTF

+ spot mics on players (mainly AKG C480/460/blue line)

Most of the time the best result's just from the stereo pair, the rest is mainly for alternatives and redundancy

They're going to go into a Sonosax SX-M32 (yet to have an outing)- used to be a SX-M2
and an Edirol R-44 as a recorder

If I'm using more than 4 channels it'll go into an RME Multiface / Quadmic and laptop (with R-44 as backup)

I've also recently got a CK94 capsule so can start playing with some M/S (and double M/S)

Offline notlance

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #153 on: March 29, 2011, 03:29:37 PM »

Hi John, I also like the flexibility of spaced omnis plus center directional mics and have talked a good bit about it with Sandy.

Just the opposite, I will sometimes run spaced cardioids with an omni center mic, and by spaced I mean in a NOS configuration.  Even at 30 cm spacing, I sometimes hear a "hole-in-the-middle" that the center omni fills in nicely.  The omni also adds some low-end weight to the recording that often the spaced cards do not provide.  Usually I end up mixing in the center omni at about -5 to -8 dB relative to the LR cards.  Just last night (28 March) I recorded a small (55 piece) symphony orchestra with two Milab DC-196 in NOS with a center Sennheiser MKH-8020.  I ended up mixing in the omni at about -6 dB which stabilized the location of the woodwind solos and added some oomph to the bass drum, although the Milab mics do have a pretty good low end.  The only time I will use this NOS + omni configuration is if I have a good idea where to place the mics, otherwise I'll use DMS or MS.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 03:33:06 PM by notlance »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #154 on: March 29, 2011, 04:21:33 PM »
Yeah, most if it is simply learning what works and expanding on to that for flexibility/redundancy.  For instance, I'd previously arrived at a known good starting point of ~1 meter spacing for a stereo pair of spaced omnis at this venue/mic-position years ago simply by adjusting things extensively while monitoring.  This time I wanted to try a wider spacing in combination with the additional channels I'm running and purposefully decided on a 2 meter spacing for the L/R omni pair with a much shorter spacing to the Center mic.  I did that partially from consulting Micheal Williams' MMAD charts for good 'critical-linking' of the recording segments between the three front mics (Left-Center playing nice with Center-Right) for my recording angle when played back as 3 or 5 channel material, but I also chose that configuration because I can can listen to just the Left and Center omnis as a stereo pair (or the Center & Right omnis).  Those two mics are then at my known 1 meter spacing, with only a slight angular mis-alignment due to the center mic being ~7" forward of the Left one.

I haven't had a chance to listen extensively yet, but when I got home last night I did a quick multi-channel playback listen (no channel mixing) of just the omnis and played around with levels. Like your experience, I often end up using somewhat less of the center channel in support of the L/R pair to basically firm up the middle, but in this case with the additional base spacing and perhaps the Williams 'critical linking' array design, the entire front stage sounded solid and was best with all three front channels at the same playback gain. 
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #155 on: May 30, 2011, 10:51:34 PM »
If any of you do Netflix, 'Glass: A Portrait of Philip in Twelve Parts' is available via instant streaming until this Wednesday.  Excellent documentory.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #156 on: May 31, 2011, 08:31:22 AM »
and, Frith and Glennie--Touch the Sound!

Offline DigiGal

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #157 on: May 31, 2011, 01:30:23 PM »
Also "Genius Within: Glenn Gould"
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #158 on: May 31, 2011, 02:37:23 PM »
^^
All good ones!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline twatts (pants are so over-rated...)

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #159 on: June 08, 2011, 03:51:32 PM »
Looking for someone to help me identify a certain tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx-Hy3eDZ30

Terry


FIGURED IT OUT:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwwX8sPRyM0
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 05:03:50 PM by twatts and not wearing pants »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #160 on: June 30, 2011, 08:28:27 PM »
Don't think this video interview has been posted yet- Tony Faulkner talks about orchestral recording with George Shilling
http://www.recordproduction.com/tony-faulkner.htm

The most relevant part is the second half, interesting to hear that he has the same problem with audience being ~8dB louder than the strings, talk of mics, techniques, etc.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline notlance

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #161 on: July 01, 2011, 12:43:02 PM »
I found the Tony Faulkner interview interesting since I have followed a very similar path in recording as he, with the big exception being he is famous and I'm nobody.  While listening to the interview I kept smiling and thinking to myself "yes, yes".  He appears to be a really nice guy and not pretentious at all.  Thanks for the link.

Offline John Willett

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #162 on: July 02, 2011, 06:48:33 AM »
I found the Tony Faulkner interview interesting since I have followed a very similar path in recording as he, with the big exception being he is famous and I'm nobody.  While listening to the interview I kept smiling and thinking to myself "yes, yes".  He appears to be a really nice guy and not pretentious at all.  Thanks for the link.

Yes, recorded in Tony's kitchen, I recognise it well.

Offline rastasean

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #163 on: July 03, 2011, 11:55:49 AM »
Don't think this video interview has been posted yet- Tony Faulkner talks about orchestral recording with George Shilling
http://www.recordproduction.com/tony-faulkner.htm

The most relevant part is the second half, interesting to hear that he has the same problem with audience being ~8dB louder than the strings, talk of mics, techniques, etc.

I liked this a lot but I don't understand why the sound quality of the video isn't good. couple minutes, some humming noise would start and shutoff. You figure they would go the extra mile to make the sound good for recording an interview.
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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #164 on: July 04, 2011, 11:47:23 AM »
Don't think this video interview has been posted yet- Tony Faulkner talks about orchestral recording with George Shilling
http://www.recordproduction.com/tony-faulkner.htm

The most relevant part is the second half, interesting to hear that he has the same problem with audience being ~8dB louder than the strings, talk of mics, techniques, etc.

I liked this a lot but I don't understand why the sound quality of the video isn't good. couple minutes, some humming noise would start and shutoff. You figure they would go the extra mile to make the sound good for recording an interview.

Probably the fridge or something - it was recorded in the kitchen of Tony's house.

I guess it was just a static camera with the on-board mic. only.

 

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