Topic: Zoom R16: 8-tr portable rig (2ch P48) MRSP $400

[sunjan]

Don't know if anyone posted this yet?
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/06/15/samson-launches-zoom-r16-16-track-recorder/

------
    Samson Debuts Zoom R16 Revolutionary Portable
    16-Track Recorder, Audio Interface and Controller

    State-of-the-art professional USB and battery powered recording device with simultaneous 8
    track recording, 16 track playback and 100+ built-in mastering effects

    Hauppauge, NY – June 16, 2009 – Zoom once again revolutionizes digital recording with the
    first digital recorder with 16-track playback and 8-track simultaneous recording utilizing Secure
    Digital (SD) memory. The R16 is three production tools in one device: a multi-track recorder, an
    audio interface and a control surface, providing all the tools necessary to create studio-quality
    recordings. Additionally, the R16 runs on only 6 AA batteries for the ultimate in multi-track
    portability.

    With the R16, recording artists, songwriters, sound engineers and film sound professionals alike can
    record up to 32 GBs on an SD card. The SD recording, while incredibly convenient for file
    transferring, also makes the R16 significantly lighter. SD recording also avoids the pitfalls of a
    potential crashing hard drive and allows for up to 100 track hours of recording using all 16 tracks.

    “We have learned a great deal from the success of our H2 and H4n as well as HD8 and HD16, our past
    multi-track recorders,” says Masa Iijima, CEO of Zoom Corporation. “With the R16 we have brought the most important capabilities from each of these product lines into our design to make a unique and versatile music production solution.”
    Connect the R16 to your laptop or desktop computer via USB, launch your favorite DAW or use
    the included Cubase LE; and, immediately start laying down your production tracks. In addition,
    USB operation means you can control each function of your favorite DAW software from the
    R16 for easy mixing with fine-tuned control.
    “The R16 is the all-in-one solution for all kinds of challenges that musicians face,” says Mark
    Wilder, Samson Director of Marketing. “Its versatility and portability along with the power to
    record so many tracks simultaneously, makes the R16 another indispensible product from
    Zoom,” added Wilder.
    With the R16, versatility, control and portability come together in one recorder that lets you
    produce professional results everywhere you go.

    Complete product specifications are below:

    • Digital recorder with 16-track playback and 8-track simultaneous recording utilizing
    Secure Digital (SD) memory
    • 16/24-bit/44.1kHz linear PCM recording in WAV format
    • Built-in stereo condenser microphones
    • Included 1GB SD card and with support for up to 32GB SDHC
    • Allows simultaneous recording on up to 8 tracks
    • Battery operation for remote recording
    • USB power for audio interface and control surface operation
    • 8 mic inputs / 2 outputs (8 x 2)
    • 8 combination XLR-1/4-inch inputs
    • High-definition 24-bit/96kHz recording capability using digital audio software
    • 100+ built-in studio effects coming from advanced DSP which can additionally be used
    as outboard effects
    • Hi-Z input for direct connection of guitar or bass
    • Included preamp with phantom power on two channels
    • Mackie control emulation via USB for popular DAW software including Cubase, Logic,
    Digital Performer and more
    • Amazing guitar amp and effects models
    • Professional quality mastering effects including multi-band compressor, normalizer and
    more
    • Operates as USB storage device for quick data transfer
    • Connect two R16s via USB for synchronized operation and 16 tracks of simultaneous
    recording
    • Undo/Redo functions
    • Comes with Steinberg Cubase LE 4
    • Supports Windows XP/Vista, Mac operating systems

[stantheman1976]

So with this you could record 8 separate, synchronized tracks that can be mixed in post?

[yltfan]

That looks like a lot of stuff for $400. Is there any possibility this will compete with the R-44?

[boojum]

Uh-oh, " Includes preamp with phantom power on two channels"  Gonna need eight channels, not two, of pre-amps and P48.  Otherwise it looks cool.

[atleast6characters]

Does this mean what I think it does?

EIGHT VIBRATORS CAN BE RECORDED AT THE SAME TIME? W000T!

[notlance]

It appears to have 8 mic pres, but only two with phantom power.  That seems strange to me.  If they are going to have phantom power for two mics, how hard is it to make it available for all 8?  I wonder how good 8 mic pres can be for 400 bucks.

[yltfan]

I could be happy with phantom on just two channels. Board feed on two more, and if I was running another set of mics, use something battery powered.

I look forward to reading the first TS reviews, although I suspect it will disappoint.

[heyitsmejess]

saw this at sam ash this past weekend.  didnt get to run it (obviously), but it appeared to be a well built unit

[Nick's Picks]

I'm likely going to pick one of these up for my band.  Looks like a lot of fun for $400

[vegas06]

Is it just me or does it say that you can only record at 
• 16/24-bit/44.1kHz linear PCM recording in WAV format without a computer interface and at,   
• High-definition 24-bit/96kHz recording capability using digital audio software

If this is the case, it's a downer in my book.
Great options, but lacking a little.
Still great for the price though.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

• High-definition 24-bit/96kHz recording capability using digital audio software

And what "digital audio software" would that be?

Is it something that can be changed in firmware later on?

[heyitsmejess]

i t hink it means you can do 24/96 if you just use it as an interface for your computer

[Will_S]

I can't see any reason to want to use use 96kHz if the preamps and line inputs are of usual Zoom quality (if ever).  No big deal that it's limited to 44.1kHz.

Phantom power on only two channels is a little unfortunate, but if the FOH is up for it there's awesome potential for a 2 mix ambient matrix plus several individual instruments/voices to mix in later.  Besides, battery life would be just about zero if supplying P48 to all 8 channels!

[Carlos E. Martinez]

I can't see any reason to want to use use 96kHz if the preamps and line inputs are of usual Zoom quality (if ever).  No big deal that it's limited to 44.1kHz.

Not having at least 48KHz limits it a lot for film/TV location use.

[vegas06]

I can't see any reason to want to use use 96kHz if the preamps and line inputs are of usual Zoom quality (if ever).  No big deal that it's limited to 44.1kHz.

Not having at least 48KHz limits it a lot for film/TV location use.

I agree, as a video producer that was my main concern as well.  I don;t really ahve need for 96kHz. but do have a great need for 48kHz., which matches the audio being recorded to video.

[sanaka]

It appears to have 8 mic pres, but only two with phantom power.  That seems strange to me.  If they are going to have phantom power for two mics, how hard is it to make it available for all 8?  I wonder how good 8 mic pres can be for 400 bucks.

Not so strange if you're using a pile of SM57's, which I think is likely for the target market. And I'd be surprised if the pre's would do justice to much beyond a SM57 either. Other than being able to be battery powered, this unit seems right in the line of your pared-down all-in-one 'Portastudio' type thing that lots of beginner bands use. Which is not to say it's lame, and for all I know it may be best in that class, but I think that is its class. So, utility for high quality remote recording may be quite limited. Would be cool if I'm wrong though...

Peace,
Sanaka

[Carlos E. Martinez]

I agree, as a video producer that was my main concern as well.  I don;t really ahve need for 96kHz. but do have a great need for 48kHz., which matches the audio being recorded to video.

I think they should cut "film sound professionals" from their pre-release ad or even from further ads, because that may mislead many people that are not familiar with the standards or are starting in the business. Particularly students.

[oleg]

48 is not Holly grail for any  video production , you can record 44.1 and convert the audio to 48 .
there still allot of sfx librerias who use 44.1 and convert it to 48 in editing , for voice recording there is no much difference between 44.1 and 48 . in 90s when most of the editing was made  on avid which  could only support 44.1 that was the main recording . the 48 become popular only after dv cams came to the market .
the main problem i see to use it in normal way  is no tc channel  so you need to record it on one of the tracks  what might bleed to other channels and i dont see any pfl to check individual channels  what quit crucial if you do mix  your stuff and need to check the inputs .
phantom power  on 2 channels is also not abig problem  as these who will use that one probably will go to proper preamp first and then line level , all the wireless gear  ( at least professional grade ) have line out capabilities not to go tru zoom preamp .
so its allot for 400 and make sense  for any mixer have one at least as spare board .

[Carlos E. Martinez]

48 is not Holly grail for any  video production , you can record 44.1 and convert the audio to 48 .
there still allot of sfx librerias who use 44.1 and convert it to 48 in editing , for voice recording there is no much difference between 44.1 and 48 . in 90s when most of the editing was made  on avid which  could only support 44.1 that was the main recording . the 48 become popular only after dv cams came to the market .

A good point. But it adds one more job to be done when capturing double system audio for an Avid Media Composer or Xpress Pro editing. In my case I would be shooting audio for DV/HDV video, so I think it better to sitck to 48.

the main problem i see to use it in normal way  is no tc channel  so you need to record it on one of the tracks  what might bleed to other channels and i dont see any pfl to check individual channels  what quit crucial if you do mix  your stuff and need to check the inputs .

In DAT times people used my TC generator to record the signal in channel 2, properly attenuated. It worked fine and did not bleed into channel 1. The question is how would you capture that TC track when you go into the Avid or any other editing program.

so its allot for 400 and make sense  for any mixer have one at least as spare board .

It looks like a great deal indeed. I am considering it or the H4n. But I don't think you can go in from the outside for 4 tracks in the H4n.

[flintstone]

"I don't think you can go in from the outside for 4 tracks in the H4n."

I'm not sure I understand what is meant by "go in from the outside."
The H4n absolutely can record from four external mics.  Two mics are
connected to the XLR ports, and two are connected to the 1/8-inch
TRS jack on the back side of the recorder.  Of course, you don't get
48V phantom power from the 1/8-inch jack.

Flintstone

[Carlos E. Martinez]

"I don't think you can go in from the outside for 4 tracks in the H4n."

I'm not sure I understand what is meant by "go in from the outside."
The H4n absolutely can record from four external mics.  Two mics are
connected to the XLR ports, and two are connected to the 1/8-inch
TRS jack on the back side of the recorder.  Of course, you don't get
48V phantom power from the 1/8-inch jack.

Well, I meant what you answered. So you can go in with four sources, be it mic or mixer outputs. Thanks.

[oleg]

48 is not Holly grail for any  video production , you can record 44.1 and convert the audio to 48 .
there still allot of sfx librerias who use 44.1 and convert it to 48 in editing , for voice recording there is no much difference between 44.1 and 48 . in 90s when most of the editing was made  on avid which  could only support 44.1 that was the main recording . the 48 become popular only after dv cams came to the market .

A good point. But it adds one more job to be done when capturing double system audio for an Avid Media Composer or Xpress Pro editing. In my case I would be shooting audio for DV/HDV video, so I think it better to sitck to 48.

the main problem i see to use it in normal way  is no tc channel  so you need to record it on one of the tracks  what might bleed to other channels and i dont see any pfl to check individual channels  what quit crucial if you do mix  your stuff and need to check the inputs .

In DAT times people used my TC generator to record the signal in channel 2, properly attenuated. It worked fine and did not bleed into channel 1. The question is how would you capture that TC track when you go into the Avid or any other editing program.

so its allot for 400 and make sense  for any mixer have one at least as spare board .

It looks like a great deal indeed. I am considering it or the H4n. But I don't think you can go in from the outside for 4 tracks in the H4n.

if your main audio is zoom , it doesnt add anything
very simple with avid , 300usd more with fcp as you need to convert the files  and need 3rd party sofwear .

[Carlos E. Martinez]

if your main audio is zoom , it doesnt add anything
very simple with avid , 300usd more with fcp as you need to convert the files  and need 3rd party sofwear .

I am looking for a cheap way to record high quality location audio, and for that you need an external recorder. 4-Track if possible.

How do you capture and synchronize double-system audio for DV/HDV using a Z1 or similar camera?  Taping TC on one track, of course.

[George2]

Use non-TC recorder... it's been done for years.

[oleg]

if your main audio is zoom , it doesnt add anything
very simple with avid , 300usd more with fcp as you need to convert the files  and need 3rd party sofwear .

I am looking for a cheap way to record high quality location audio, and for that you need an external recorder. 4-Track if possible.

How do you capture and synchronize double-system audio for DV/HDV using a Z1 or similar camera?  Taping TC on one track, of course.

dumb slate is good
or - to record tc on one of the camera audio  channels with external tc generator ( denecke /ambient) and another to zoom  audio channels
or use one on zoom , split the  tc out and go to both devices , or make the camera get the split tc thru wierless .
 denecke sb-3 sync box  or 2 , g-2 sennheiser wierless , 500-1000 usd , depends on your setup ,
 or change camera for something that has tc out  and go to zoom audio channel .
the only problem i see with zoom , you cant monitoring indevidual channels , other wise  very good device for what it worth .

[Carlos E. Martinez]

dumb slate is good
or - to record tc on one of the camera audio  channels with external tc generator ( denecke /ambient) and another to zoom  audio channels
or use one on zoom , split the  tc out and go to both devices , or make the camera get the split tc thru wierless .
 denecke sb-3 sync box  or 2 , g-2 sennheiser wierless , 500-1000 usd , depends on your setup ,
 or change camera for something that has tc out  and go to zoom audio channel .
the only problem i see with zoom , you cant monitoring indevidual channels , other wise  very good device for what it worth .

What method to use to record TC on camera and Zoom I am quite familiar with. I already have TC generators and Lectrosonics wireless, so that wouldn't be any problem.

The problem is to go in in the Avid MC or Xpress Pro with TC track, then make the program to recognize it as such and sync the audio accordingly. How do you do that? 

[oleg]

ask any aditor how to convert audio channel tc to  time line tc .

[Carlos E. Martinez]

ask any aditor how to convert audio channel tc to  time line tc .

I thought you did know that. I have asked this question many times to editors, and they do not know how to do it.

I know that can be done in Xpress Pro, since version 5.7 or so, but I haven't seen instructions on how to do it.

It should be possible in Media Composer too.

[oleg]

ask on dvxuser.com . or dvinfo.net

[Nerve113]

Does anybody know how to set up Sonar 5 to respond to the faders on the Zoom R16? I'm kind of new to recording and I had read that the recording program would respond to the faders on the console, I'm just not sure how. HELP! 

[Teen Age Riot]

Bump.

Has anyone tried this thing yet?
I met a fellow local taper a few days ago who actually has one, but didn't get to use it yet.

[sunjan]

Plenty of reports over at Gearslutz, and more:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/366508-zoom-r16-any-experience-opinions.html

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R16/reviews
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep09/articles/zoomr16.htm

[Walstib62]

I was looking at the Gear Sluts posts and there are a lot of positive reviews. However, there are also 2 posts that report the unit suddenly dying and not powering up. This may or may not be a larger issue with this unit. FYI in case anyone is looking at one of these. There should be some follow up on these failures on GS soon.

[Ozpeter]

See also http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewforum.php?f=17

[kirk97132]

Bump.

Has anyone tried this thing yet?
I met a fellow local taper a few days ago who actually has one, but didn't get to use it yet.

I am wondering the same thing.  I read all of GS stuff and seems like the DOA units were all newer model #'s.  Just wondering what the reports from the field for our uses?

[Teen Age Riot]

I finally got to try my buddy's R16. Recorded a local flamenco group, six channels from the board (three guitars, three vocals) through direct outs, plus my MBHOs as ambiant mics. Came out great.

The preamps are quiet and clean sounding. They may be a little bit on the thin side, which would be consistent with what the folks on gearslutz are saying. However, it can be easily fixed in post.
I'm buying on of these in the near future for sure.   

[kirk97132]

I gotta say, since Tascam has brought out an 8 track unit for a grand, I've stopped looking at this.  But the price point is still great for what you get.   

[cybergaloot]

I bought one for occasional use (use my R-44 most of the time) but it hasn't arrived yet.

[kirk97132]

I bought one for occasional use (use my R-44 most of the time) but it hasn't arrived yet.

Keep us posted.  I know I'd still like to hear how it works and how it sounds.  I'm wondering if external preamps will change that"thin" sound?

[cybergaloot]

I bought one for occasional use (use my R-44 most of the time) but it hasn't arrived yet.

Keep us posted.  I know I'd still like to hear how it works and how it sounds.  I'm wondering if external preamps will change that"thin" sound?

Will do. I plan to use my R-44 as the phantom power/preamp for four of the channels. We'll see how that works.

[kirk97132]

Any chance you will be running any other external preamps?

[cybergaloot]

I don't have anything better right now. I wish!

[rastasean]

I know cybergaloot and I talked but I was wondering if anyone else has got one of these. I'm tempted to pick up Nick's that he's selling. I know its not ideal for tapers but it seems like a good way to start mixing and playing in DAW.

[kirk97132]

The Tascam DR-680 knocked this out of contention for me.   

[rastasean]

The Tascam DR-680 knocked this out of contention for me.

no doubt but thats $867 and this is $400. you can get two of these and have 16 channels...at 44.1/16.

[cybergaloot]

The Tascam DR-680 knocked this out of contention for me.

no doubt but thats $867 and this is $400. you can get two of these and have 16 channels...at 44.1/16.

Actually I paid $338 for mine new off eBay. The R-44 is still my main recorder, the R16 is for certain projects that need more channels, for backup and for grins and giggles.

[kirk97132]

The Tascam DR-680 knocked this out of contention for me.

no doubt but thats $867 and this is $400. you can get two of these and have 16 channels...at 44.1/16.

OK but then lets add in four channels of preamps that supply phantom since only two channels have phantom on the R-16.  Or even just some good phantom units and that $400 starts climbing quickly.  And there is no wordclock sync on the R-16 either so the units will run different. 

[rastasean]

Actually I paid $338 for mine new off eBay. The R-44 is still my main recorder, the R16 is for certain projects that need more channels, for backup and for grins and giggles.

That's a good price and i can understand why this wouldn't be useful for a taper but for certain activities, I think it would do well for the price.

[rastasean]

OK but then lets add in four channels of preamps that supply phantom since only two channels have phantom on the R-16.  Or even just some good phantom units and that $400 starts climbing quickly.  And there is no wordclock sync on the R-16 either so the units will run different.

oh just get some sm57s and hold them up in the air with your friends.   

[cybergaloot]

OK but then lets add in four channels of preamps that supply phantom since only two channels have phantom on the R-16.  Or even just some good phantom units and that $400 starts climbing quickly.  And there is no wordclock sync on the R-16 either so the units will run different.

oh just get some sm57s and hold them up in the air with your friends.   

In my case I can use my R-44 to phantom power four more channels if needed. I have a small local festival coming up in a few weeks and I'll probably run the R16 at one stage, the R-44 at another and my old CA-11>CA-9000>H2 rig at the third

[rastasean]

In my case I can use my R-44 to phantom power four more channels if needed. I have a small local festival coming up in a few weeks and I'll probably run the R16 at one stage, the R-44 at another and my old CA-11>CA-9000>H2 rig at the third

Please be sure and let us know how it turns out with the r16! what mics would you be using?

I found out that the max record time, for one consecutive recording, is four hours.

Q:      What is the longest available recording time?
A:    Regardless of the number of tracks, the maximum continuous recording time is 4 hours.

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/support/faq/r16.php
second question

[cybergaloot]

Since a stereo recording usually runs about 1GB an hour, then a mono recording would run 0.5GB per hour. The file size limit for FAT32 (most SD cards are formatted FAT32) is 2GB, 2GB/.5=4hours. That's MAX!

If you record all eight channels into eight mono files, you can go 4 hours. If you link the channels in pairs into four stereo files the limit would be 2 hours. And that's what I hit running it once. It just stops, it does not start a new file like the H2 or many other recorders. That may be fixable with a firmware update.

[rastasean]

those times are accurate when recording at 16/44.1

i'm confident zoom will update the firmware to bypass the recording limit and make the recorder start a new recording.

[Nick's Picks]

I use a 16 gig card in mine.  at band practice, I use all 8 chan and we usually play for 2.5-3 hours.  at 16/44, it typically comes out in the 7gb range for the entire project.  I have yet to have file limit issues at this moment, but they are all under 1gb individually.

[kirk97132]

OK but then lets add in four channels of preamps that supply phantom since only two channels have phantom on the R-16.  Or even just some good phantom units and that $400 starts climbing quickly.  And there is no wordclock sync on the R-16 either so the units will run different.

oh just get some sm57s and hold them up in the air with your friends.   

In my case I can use my R-44 to phantom power four more channels if needed. I have a small local festival coming up in a few weeks and I'll probably run the R16 at one stage, the R-44 at another and my old CA-11>CA-9000>H2 rig at the third

And using the R-16 as a mic & line input would work great for the festy set up to do matrix.  But if you wanted to add any other mics to that rig they have to be dynamics not 48v condensers.  .  But isn't using the R-44 as a 4 channel pre kinds of a hard way to go just to be able to get 6 mic inputs?  Not to be  pot stirring  or a nay sayer.  Believe me I looked at the R-16 for a long time but could never get off the fence on it.  Then poof the tascam unit showed up.  And that price point was what drew me to it at first.  But then again I already had three preamps to use with it. 

[cybergaloot]

OK but then lets add in four channels of preamps that supply phantom since only two channels have phantom on the R-16.  Or even just some good phantom units and that $400 starts climbing quickly.  And there is no wordclock sync on the R-16 either so the units will run different.

oh just get some sm57s and hold them up in the air with your friends.   

In my case I can use my R-44 to phantom power four more channels if needed. I have a small local festival coming up in a few weeks and I'll probably run the R16 at one stage, the R-44 at another and my old CA-11>CA-9000>H2 rig at the third

And using the R-16 as a mic & line input would work great for the festy set up to do matrix.  But if you wanted to add any other mics to that rig they have to be dynamics not 48v condensers.  .  But isn't using the R-44 as a 4 channel pre kinds of a hard way to go just to be able to get 6 mic inputs?  Not to be  pot stirring  or a nay sayer.  Believe me I looked at the R-16 for a long time but could never get off the fence on it.  Then poof the tascam unit showed up.  And that price point was what drew me to it at first.  But then again I already had three preamps to use with it.

The only reason I'd use the R-44 to power four more more mics is because I already own the gear. Otherwise I'd be looking at a different recorder or one of those Rolls boxes for phantom power. Its something I can do with what I have, not something I'd do all the time.

I bought the R16 for occasional use, not as my primary recorder. For me, it was a cheap way to get more channels for those occasional times I might need them and it gives me a back-up/second recorder.