Topic: Weird Dat Technical Issue

[Boedi-taper]

Hello!
For all that still tape dat or use to,here's a weird issue I had last night which I never experienced before: I taped Gov't Mule last night.When I got back from the show I listened to a few minutes here and there of the 2nd set on my home Sony PCM R-300 home deck.2nd set sounded great and from what I can tell,no problems.When I rewinded the tape to the first set,upon playback there's all types of errors,digi-noise,etc.I also played the tape back on the deck I recorded the show on(Sony D7).Same thing from what I just descibed.However,when I played the tape back on my other home dat deck(Fostex D-5),there were no errors/noise,etc whatsoever! Was just wondering what that is all about and what it could be.Any help appreciated! Thanks! 

[sparkey]

That is weird, usually it plays on the deck it was recorded on (which may have the heads out of alignment) and then has trouble playing on the home deck (with the heads in alignment, or vice versa).  Might be bad media too.  Just transfer it off ASAP.

[Since85]

I do not know if the Fostex specifically has the capability, but see if you can get an "error count" mode on the deck. If you see higher error counts during the times of "noise" on the consumer decks, that could be your answer. The smaller head consumer DAT decks could be getting more errors/having issues handling them than the playback deck.

Good luck.

[H₂O]

Sounds like alignment issue to me.  From what I have read some types of Sony decks are more sensitive then others.
 
Sound like you ran a 90m tape so this may have caused issues as well with the D7 - have you had your D7 serviced lately?
 
I ran 90m's in my D8 all the time but I would have issues with certain brands of tapes as well.  My D8 hated Maxell 90's but did not mind Sony's.  What brand of 90's where you running?
 
 

[meatballs]

My shitty opinion --

 1. a bad tape -- did you f/f to the end end then r/r to the beginning - before recording- sometimes the tapes are packed tight. How old is the tape and if possible do you know where / how it was stored i.e. warehouse, bedroom,attic, other factors -- stored flat or upright -- rooms with temperature flucuations.

2. deck alignment and or cleaning needed -- this may sound anal but when I ran my Sony PCM-D100 I obsessively cleaned the heads like once every five shows -- and for what it's worth my Sony home Dat DCE TZ700? required excessive cleaning once every 3 shows. No worries -- it was all I had back then, but both machines told me when maitenance neede to be done and I did it obsessively they both still are apart of my antique collection.

3. could possible be a bad connection with you r cabes somewhere i.e. from the mic to the pre or from the pre to the deck.

4. last bot not least you may have a problem internally in one of your mics -- both mics at the same time having problems would be shitty luck but hey I wouldn't rule that out either . A long time ago I taped with a set of Beyers and it took a a long time for me to locate the problem which ended being in one of the mics -- Note > do not tkae you mics apart by yourseflf as I tried this and was never able to do it right -- didn't have the right tolls and made a hack job out of a mic that worked for me for several years i.e. locate the problem and send it to somone who can fix it -- why because micophones aren't like changing pistons if you fuck up it's fucked.

just my opinion but any time your dealing with electric problems it can be interesting so don't take anything fo granted -- if you know someone who knows how to work on Lucas motororcyle parts he is your man  to my knowledge ans experience they are they most possessed electronics ever developed . ie. an Lucas electrician has seen it done it you name it and chances are he might not even tape or ride motorcycles point beeing if you know lucas electrics you know electronics with their own mind -- electroics that have little or no reason for their behavior and always carry a pack of gum and some aluminum foil

Hop e this helped -- I still love DAT an feel it is even today the most archiveable method -- discs skip, coputers crash DAT is archievable -- however, still waiting for the next thing --LASERor shit Tattoo

[live2496]

I am thinking that your D7 needs servicing. Tape tensioning or alignment could cause the problems you have heard on playback. The problems were encountered when recording and so the R-300 is having a problem with it too.

DAT decks have the ability to adjust their alignment to the ATF tracking signal on the tape. According to Ken Pohlmann's book on digital audio these are short bursts of data which help the tape transport make adjustments while playing back. My guess is that the Fostex D5 is just a bit better at doing that.

Is this the same type of tape that you always use in the D7? Is there anything different about the tape?

[DSatz]

With linear recording (e.g. old-fashioned analog audio tape) you might well get the best results by playing a tape back on the same deck that it was made on. But DAT recordings are helical and segmented, with a whole servo tracking and alignment system that is strictly a playback-only phenomenon. So DAT playback on one individual deck can have special problems that don't occur on another individual deck, regardless of which machine a particular tape was recorded on. Sometimes, in other words, it is better NOT to use the original recorder for playback. And that occurs most often with miniaturized, single-head decks like the D7 and D8, or the D100 and its quasi-professional counterpart the M1.

Some decks have two playback heads embedded in the drum, some have only one. And as the saying goes, two heads are better than one. They scan alternating segments, and the material read by one head can sometimes get the deck successfully through a patch of read errors from the other head (e.g. if the one head is partly clogged by oxide particles).

The D7 with its miniature head drum definitely uses only one playback head, and the tape has to wrap around it with more of a curvature than with a standard-size head drum. If the one head is clogged or if the tape isn't making good enough contact with the drum, a deck like the D7 will have audible dropouts that another deck, with better tension control and a standard-size, two-head drum, might not.

I still use a D8 occasionally for recording, but I play the tapes back (for transfer to a WAV file) on a full-size deck with a better transport and two playback heads. Also, such things as DAT head cleaning tapes do exist, though they shouldn't be overused.

--best regards

[Boedi-taper]

To all that responded-thanks! I just had the D7 totally refurbished so I don't think its that.I also forwarded and rewinded the 90m tape on the D7 before the start of the show.Don't know if that might be a factor or not.The errors only occured during the first set and not the 2nd set,so I have a feeling it is the tape.I also used another tape for the Jackie Greene opener-no errors,problems,etc.I always record a minute or so of the tape(I always let the first minute be blank,I always was told to do that) during setup,to make sure I'm getting levels,a signal,etc,so maybe that is the reason I got errors.nayway,thanks again to all of your help!!