Topic: New Taper: Part II: Set up for taping

[stevetoney]

I don't understand the need for special shirts and all these modified clothes for holding a recorder and BB.

For the most part, I agree with you.  My only comment is that I think more people are concerned with the mic end when it comes to special rigging ideas.  I also understand how a noob, by virtue of the fact that they're new to this, is just trying to cover his bases by asking some questions with some level of detail.  For a noob, there's probably a heightened intimidation factor at first that those that have been doing this for awhile have learned to deal with.

Having said this, I must say that there was more than once when I was caught stealthing back in the day when the only reason I was caught was that the bouncer saw me take my recorder out for a couple of seconds.  It might be only a couple of seconds, but it's the act of looking and the lights that are the giveaway.

[acidjack]

I don't understand the need for special shirts and all these modified clothes for holding a recorder and BB.

For the most part, I agree with you.  My only comment is that I think more people are concerned with the mic end when it comes to special rigging ideas.  I also understand how a noob, by virtue of the fact that they're new to this, is just trying to cover his bases by asking some questions with some level of detail.  For a noob, there's probably a heightened intimidation factor at first that those that have been doing this for awhile have learned to deal with.

Having said this, I must say that there was more than once when I was caught stealthing back in the day when the only reason I was caught was that the bouncer saw me take my recorder out for a couple of seconds.  It might be only a couple of seconds, but it's the act of looking and the lights that are the giveaway.

On the mic end, I completely agree that it's a different story. There is certainly one modified piece of clothing I can't live without for that.

As to the recorder, back when there weren't tons of flashing screens everywhere, and recorders were huge, I had to use the whole fanny pack thing. But now I just don't see the point.  The only time I ever got busted was actually the one time I tried to do a stupid modification to my clothes and thought that was a good excuse to check levels all the time...

[hieye]

Thanks all for the responses and input:

I've been practicing with the gear/settings.  I turned up the volume on a acoustic guitar CD.  Sorry I don't know how "high" it was turned up, but any higher and I would have woken up the neighbors and we live on 3 acres in the country:

1)  I needed to use the high mic sens setting or levels would not reach the -12 db level
2)  When using line input (CA-14s/battery box), levels would not reach the -12 db setting
3)  Hold button is great to keep the recording from accidentally stopping after starting the session!
4)  When mics were mounted in the hat (supposedly with no acoustic loss):  The Omnis sounded much better vs the cards.  Is that because of the low volume I was recording at?  The cards sounded only marginally better than the internal mics.
5)  When setting levels for around -12 db, should the peak level marker on average be hitting the -12 db level?  Is that the goal?

When I am finally recording live, what might I expect?  I'm thinking:  Mic sens low, line input, cardiod mics if I am in a crowded venue?  Is this reasonable? 

I'll probably do another experiment again; mid-day (so as not to bother anyone).  I'll put in some brass jazz band, really turn up the volume and see how the recording levels respond. 

Thanks for any responses.

[fmaderjr]

I don't understand the need for special shirts and all these modified clothes for holding a recorder and BB. The M10 is small and fits in a pants pocket.

Me neither. I can fit an M10 and one of the smaller 9 volt battery boxes in a large front pocket of a shirt (hole in pocket for cable to go out and up my back to mics in my hat).

I much prefer 9 volt battery boxes-they're pretty small now and you can go a lot longer before you need to worry about changing the battery.

[ilduclo]

I don't understand the need for special shirts and all these modified clothes for holding a recorder and BB. The M10 is small and fits in a pants pocket.

Me neither. I can fit an M10 and one of the smaller 9 volt battery boxes in a large front pocket of a shirt (hole in pocket for cable to go out and up my back to mics in my hat).

I much prefer 9 volt battery boxes-they're pretty small now and you can go a lot longer before you need to worry about changing the battery.

qft, plus if you are in doubt about the state of your battery in the box, it is easy to get a 9v replacement at any convenience store ..........12 v mini? not so much

[fmaderjr]

qft, plus if you are in doubt about the state of your battery in the box, it is easy to get a 9v replacement at any convenience store ..........12 v mini? not so much

Another good reason why I won't even consider anything but a 9 volt battery box.

[hieye]

Thanks to everyone who posted and PM'd me on this subject line.  I think I'm good to go for now.  There was no way I could have got to this point without the input of the forum members here.  Please comment on my recordings when I get back! 

[hieye]

Final comments (just got back from a bunch of taping in New Orleans):

1)  Need to use the mic-in jack with my set up (Sony PCM 10, CA-14s omnis) or it seems like I need to kick up the recording level too high which causes a "clicking" noise?

2)  Despite comments by other members, the shirt is awesome.  It has holes in all pockets which makes connections from recorder to BB to mics to hat very easy.  Also, it was very easy to access the recorder to check levels and not worry about hitting/moving the recorder level when putting the recorder back into the pocket.  Great for the newbie stealth person to easily access the recorder during the easiest time to be spotted. 

3)  Hold button is awesome to get everything ready for taping/recording.  I got everything ready before walking into the venue or in the restroom and started recording, then set "hold".  Then I just needed to check recording levels once the music started.

4)  CA-14s are NOT stealth mics.  I wish I had heard about the SP-CMC-8s before.  CA-14s can be hat mounted by are still rather large.  I can't see mounting the CA-14s any other way besides a hat.  The CMC-8s give you other options.

5)  Velcro strips/gaffers (electrician tape) are useful items to keep things organized and tidy.

6)  Got some ok and some GREAT recordings.  Best recording was in a small venue, we were situated about 30 ft from the stage front, my back was against a wall, the ceiling only in our location was about 10 ft (so we were kinda in a cave approx 10 ft x 15 ft).  I'm sure the venue soundboard person was awesome as well, but the recording came out great (in my opinion).  I wish I could replicate this everywhere! 

Please see my final subject line once I figure out what to use to edit/cut/paste the final recordings.  I'll post links to some of the uncompressed recording.  Thanks for the input!

[fmaderjr]

CA-14s are NOT stealth mics.  I wish I had heard about the SP-CMC-8s before.  CA-14s can be hat mounted by are still rather large.  I can't see mounting the CA-14s any other way besides a hat.  The CMC-8s give you other options.

To each his own. In this case, IMO you give up something in the sound by going smaller. The CA-14s (which are half the price) and the CMC-4's (which are cheaper and are based on AT853's instead of 943's) sound better. If I'm "wearing my mics" I'd never go back to any other mount than a hat, so the larger size doesn't bother me. If switchable caps are important, I'd recommend the CMC-4's instead.

For me, CA-14's definitely are stealth mics. People who have Schoeps or AKG actives don't seem to have a problem stealthing with them. It's all in the technique.

I don't get why so many people want all their equipment as small as possible, even though equipment that is a little larger would sound better and/or be easier to operate in a stealth situation and would still not be difficult to stealth with.

[hieye]

Thank you.  Nice post.  No one has mentioned that the CA-14s/CMC-4s sound significantly better than the CMC-8s.  I'll take that into consideration.  I appreciate the input.

CA-14s are NOT stealth mics.  I wish I had heard about the SP-CMC-8s before.  CA-14s can be hat mounted by are still rather large.  I can't see mounting the CA-14s any other way besides a hat.  The CMC-8s give you other options.

To each his own. In this case, IMO you give up something in the sound by going smaller. The CA-14s (which are half the price) and the CMC-4's (which are cheaper and are based on AT853's instead of 943's) sound better. If I'm "wearing my mics" I'd never go back to any other mount than a hat, so the larger size doesn't bother me. If switchable caps are important, I'd recommend the CMC-4's instead.

For me, CA-14's definitely are stealth mics. People who have Schoeps or AKG actives don't seem to have a problem stealthing with them. It's all in the technique.

I don't get why so many people want all their equipment as small as possible, even though equipment that is a little larger would sound better and/or be easier to operate in a stealth situation and would still not be difficult to stealth with.

[fmaderjr]

I've never used CM-8's myself but a number of tapers who's opinions I respect have said that CM-4's (AT853's) and CA-14's do sound better than CM-8's (AT943's). I do know the 853's and the CA-14 sound tremendous.

[acidjack]

I've never used CM-8's myself but a number of tapers who's opinions I respect have said that CM-4's (AT853's) and CA-14's do sound better than CM-8's (AT943's). I do know the 853's and the CA-14 sound tremendous.

I would clarify this only to say that the CMC-4 **cardiods** sound better than the CMC-8. The CMC-8 omnis IMHO are just as good as the CMC-4.  The hypers on both I find to be pretty weak.

You can achieve the best of both worlds by buying the CMC-8 bodies and then using adapters to add the CMC-4 caps, though that's not the cheapest option.

[taperwheeler]

And going with 943 bodies (smaller body), adapter and 853 caps you get a smaller setup than you would with 853 bodies.  Also agree that that the omni's are equally good in the 943/853 models.  The 853 cards, imo are much better than 943's.

I've never used CM-8's myself but a number of tapers who's opinions I respect have said that CM-4's (AT853's) and CA-14's do sound better than CM-8's (AT943's). I do know the 853's and the CA-14 sound tremendous.

I would clarify this only to say that the CMC-4 **cardiods** sound better than the CMC-8. The CMC-8 omnis IMHO are just as good as the CMC-4.  The hypers on both I find to be pretty weak.

You can achieve the best of both worlds by buying the CMC-8 bodies and then using adapters to add the CMC-4 caps, though that's not the cheapest option.

[hieye]

Great info on the CM-4s and CM-8s. 

What's the consensus when comparing the CA-14 cards and CM-4 cards?  I've never even used the CA-14 cards yet as I've heard that recording is much more difficult with cards (having to keep more still, pointed to the target, cannot cover vents ,etc).  In addition, when comparing the "sound" of the CA-14 cards and omnis at home, the omnis sounded much better.   

I like the CM-4 body + adapter + CM-8 caps (omnis) idea best.  I can anticipate a lot of situations where the hat mount will not work.

Thanks for the opinions!

[fmaderjr]

I would clarify this only to say that the CMC-4 **cardiods** sound better than the CMC-8. The CMC-8 omnis IMHO are just as good as the CMC-4.  The hypers on both I find to be pretty weak.

This makes sense, as it very hard to make tiny cardiods, especially with decent bass response.

I tend to forget about omnis because you have to be in a sweet spot without too much crowd noise around you to get a better recording than you would with cards. I've made a few great omni recordings, but screwed up a high enough percentage that I haven't tried them in a couple of years. I take it that many here make fabulous omni recordings, but I think it's a lot less idiot proof than recording with cards. I like to keep things real simple.

Many here agree with acidjack about the CMC-4 hypers, but I've been very happy with my recordings with them when I was seated pretty far back in a large indoor venue. I also love the subcardiods.