Topic: so i finally got my JB3 and now i want opinions....

[obeythekitten]

would using these mics (with the bass roll-off) be a wise decision?

http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/gs/gs-poweredbattery1.htm



they only run $90 for powered mics with bass roll-off so i figure that it'd be a good starting point for someone with no experience.....


would it be a bad idea to go and attach these to a homeade stand that simulated being placed on a human that was stealthing? (read: mannequin head or the like)

[jb3newbie]

Im not sure about the mics...I dont think you would  want to run them directly into the JB3.

I dont think hoisting up a mannequin head or anything to resemble a head would be a good idea.  It would be obtrusive to the aud unless you are in the back of the room...but the sound probably isnt good in the very back.  Why not get some Guitar Center Oktavas to start out with.  Unless you want to stealth alot

[obeythekitten]

It would be obtrusive to the aud unless you are in the back of the room

this i agree with....but why cant i run these into my jb3? i've read plenty of people saying not to use cheap unpowered binaural mics with a jb3 but unless im not understanding the problem then these ones *should* be fine.

can people fill me in on problems with this?

[mirth]

If you already had an A > D I'd suggest checking out some Superluxes. Alex on this board has some recordings he's done with them & even though he's moved onto greener pastures periodically pimps them as good starter mics.

[obeythekitten]

i dont understand why i *need* a converter....my understanding was that i could run the mics directly into the Jb3

[jb3newbie]

The "line in" just isnt a good thing on the JB3 from what I gather....although If it sounds good to your ears...then dont let no one tell you diff.  have fun....I predict that you will have the upgrade bug biting at you before long....

[jb3newbie]

I couldnt tell you why...but I know someone here can

[obeythekitten]

i want a minimalist setup as much as possible....running "stealth" mics off of a stand simply because i like the sound thats produced by a lot of stealth recordings ive heard (feeling of "being there") yet i dont want to have to physically wear the mics....therefore putting said stealth mics on a stand

[Brian Skalinder]

Yes, you can run the mics directly into the JB3 as they're powered by their own battery box.  You may find as others have that the mic-in analog stage of the JB3 - the bits inside that add gain to your mic signal before it's converted to digital - isn't the greatest.  You may also find the ADC isn't the greatest.  Or you may love it.  I say if you're on a budget, give it a go.

[jb3newbie]

So you want to stealth on a stand???  

Go mics > a/d (CO2, Hosa) > jb3  

THat is a minimalist setup

[obeythekitten]

We are all aiming for minimalism. It just takes some of us more minimums
Jack straight into the deck!
Watch out for the upgrade bug!

sorry for the n00b question but why were other people suggesting that i needed an A/D converter? do i actually need it for any plausible reason?

[jb3newbie]

These guys know what they are talking about listen to them...and T+ for getting started ( its a good thing)

[obeythekitten]

second question....they offer the exact same mics in both omni and Cardioid....which do i want?

[Kindguy]

Have you heard any tapes made with these mics? I haven't.

What other stealth mics do you like?

How much cash can you spend on new mics.

[obeythekitten]

Have you heard any tapes made with these mics? I haven't.

Robert Plant - Morning Dew

Survivor - Eye of the Tiger

Robert Plant - Season of the Witch

Avril Lavigne - skater boy

Robert Plant - I'm in the mood

All recordings were made with the mics clipped to the rims of eye glasses with bass roll off.  

No alterations were made to these recordings.  These are pure, untouched MD > coax digital soundcard > WAV > MP3 (320 kbps) transfers

[jb3newbie]

Id say cards if you are taping in small-med clubs.

[obeythekitten]

i just checked the specs on both....is this going to be an issue if i get the Cardioids?


Cardioid Powered Stereo Microphone Specifications

*  100 - 12,000 Hz frequency response.  Bass rolls off at 100 hz and treble at 12 khz.


Omni Powered Mic with Bass Rolloff    Specifications

*  20 - 20,000 Hz flat frequency response

[Brian Skalinder]

i just checked the specs on both....is this going to be an issue if i get the Cardioids?

Is what going to be an issue?  The frequency response?  Just need some clarification to address the question.

Cardioid Powered Stereo Microphone Specifications

*  100 - 12,000 Hz frequency response.  Bass rolls off at 100 hz and treble at 12 khz.

This is a pretty limited frequency response, and you'll find the recordings will suffer from lack of bass and diminished highs as a result.  Many of the mics we use for field recording offer frequency response of 20Hz - 20 kHz.  So you can see, relatively speaking, 100 Hz - 18 kHz is fairly limited.

To me, the bottom line is:  if you like the sample recordings, go for it.  If you find the sample recordings lacking in some fashion (e.g. not enough bass), seek out alternatives.

What's your budget?

[obeythekitten]

well i honestly want to keep this as cheap as possible as this is moreso a fun thing i can also use my JB3 for rather than the sole reason i bought a JB3.

i really liked what i heard with the omni mics (which is what the samples were) but are people saying its not a good idea to use them because of what else they will pick up?

[Brian Skalinder]

Omnidirectional mics are just that - they pick up sound from all directions.  Directional mics pick up sound from specific directions, though different patterns are wider and others are narrower.  From widest to narrowest:

subcardioid
cardioid
hypercardioid/supercardioid
shotgun

So, yeah, omnis will pick up more crowd noise around you than directional mics.  If you like the sound samples you posted, then go for it - if you don't do what *your* ears like, you'll never be happy with your recordings.

[mirth]

Omnidirectional microphones will pick up sounds from all directions, not just whatever direction they're pointed.

By all means, start off with whatever is in your budget.

Chances are one of three things will happen:
1) you hate the feeling of stressing over your gear at shows (includes sneaking in, if you're stealthig) & will eventually stop/sell the gear you've accumulated

2) love pulling the tapes and are satisfied with the sound quality you get from your current setup

3) love pulling the tapes and get bit by the upgrade bug. once that happens its only a matter of time before you begin to covet other setups & desire a pre/ad and mic upgrade.


No matter what anyone says, have a good time first and foremost.

[obeythekitten]

well they didnt provide samples of the cards in action only the omnis although i was pleased with the samples from the omni mics.......so the much smaller frequency range would be a big downer compared to the omnis? i'm THIS close to takin out the credit card and buying those omnis unless someone tells me otherwise.

my plan is to stealth sometimes but *most* of the time set them up ghetto-style to my jb3 on a stand.

[mirth]

If you like them, buy them. Just remember that the omnis will pick up sounds from every direction.... up, down, left, right, back. So the annoying guy right behind you whose talking loudly all night will for sure be heard on your recording.

I think the three possible scenarios above still apply. Keep in mind you're going to need extra power for the jb3.

[Sean Gallemore]

I case you aren't aware, the battery box isn't a preamp.  Somewhere you need to bring the mic level signal up to line level.  Personally, I would never let a consumer piece of gear do this process for me.  I have owned portable MD recorders and an M1 and I wouldn't use the mic-in jack on any of them.  Hence, I would never even consider the possibility of maybe thinking about pondering the fact that the JB3 HAS a mic-input and ESPECIALLY never consider the use of it.  More simply, get an outboard pre.  Or use the JB3, whatever you want.

As for the mics, the response on the cards sucks donkey balls.  If it's between those 2, go omnis.  ALso, check out the Dynamic Audio "Binaurals" if you are looking to go that route.  If you are willing to spend $200 on mics and power, I can give you much better advice in the stealthing realm.

good luck!
peace
~schwills

[Ed.]

www.dynamicaudio.cjb.net  <-- on occasion i use the dynamic audio "binaurals" with the fixed battery box (no bass rolloff) plugged directly into the njb3 line in.  I must say my tapes aren't as good as when i used all my handy dandy taper gear, but in a pinch and in situations where stealthing is the only option, these work great for what they are.  I should probably get better stealth mics, but i prefer to use my other equipment so i think its a waste of money.

you can run them directly into the njb3's line in when you use the battery box.  however, it'll sound better with a preamp and an analog > digital converter.  You'd also have better luck with a solid pair of condensors.  I use the superlux mics at the moment while i save up for bigger and better and i must say they're a great set of starter mics.  they came with windscreens, shockmounts, tbar, stand adapter, binaural caps, hyper caps, cardioid caps, and a case - all for $150.

start small and get bigger, and practice, practice, practice.  The easiest way to make a good tape is to know what you're doing, the only way to know what you're doing is buy experience.

ed

[obeythekitten]

I case you aren't aware, the battery box isn't a preamp.  Somewhere you need to bring the mic level signal up to line level.  Personally, I would never let a consumer piece of gear do this process for me.  

As for the mics, the response on the cards sucks donkey balls.  If it's between those 2, go omnis.  ALso, check out the Dynamic Audio "Binaurals" if you are looking to go that route.  If you are willing to spend $200 on mics and power, I can give you much better advice in the stealthing realm.

i am aware of the preamp issues, but this is something i can buy later once i get my feet wet with a little experience after going directly from mics >line in on my jb3

i don't even plan on stealthing close to a majority of the time, i just want to carry a small smount of equipment as possible for taping in smaller clubs, (attaching "stealth" style mics to a stand) from what i understand  Cardioid mics would serve me best here rather than blowing money on omnis?

i wanted to buy the giant squid mics as it seems like an ideal solution but the frequency range on their Cardioids are insufficient so i'm better off buying the omnis? is this correct?

[mirth]

my first 'rig' was a sealth omni on a stand setup > laptop and while it wasn't very good sound quality it did what I wanted it to do.

If you haven't checked it out yet, soundprofessionals.com has a large selection of miniature omni & directional microphones. It may be more what you're looking for....

[Kindguy]

Check out the used SP mics in the yard sale. I owned the 831's & the few times I used them they made good tapes.

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=13356

also

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=12881

[bush]

I would also suggest the Sound Professionals at853's, these mics have made really good tapes. Keep a good eye on the yard sale section, you can score a helluva good deal on nice stuff all the time.

AND dont be afraid to go mics>battbox>jb3.  It might not sound as pristine as you would like, but on a budget  there's only soo much one can do.

If you like what your doing and want to go further, sell whatever mics you get and buy some new ones, then worry about pre>ad, just keep it fun

bush

[Chapper]

AND dont be afraid to go mics>battbox>jb3.  It might not sound as pristine as you would like, but on a budget  there's only soo much one can do.

Exactly...go ahead with the Giant Squids....either the omni or card (I can't imagine there is that much difference in those small mics).  It will work fine with the JB3.  You aren't going to be pulling recordings that are anywhere near as good as a more expensive setup....but make the initial low investment and see if you are into it.
I haven't actually heard the Giant Squid mics...but I'd assume they are comparable to the low cost Core Sound Binuarals..which I've herad a few good recordings by a friend of mine who has them (loads and loads of mediocre recordins as well).  

Be warned....if you do get into it, you'll most likely want to upgrade in the near future.   But then again you might not be into it...$90 isn't much to put into finding out.

Chapper

[zhianosatch]

AND dont be afraid to go mics>battbox>jb3.  It might not sound as pristine as you would like, but on a budget  there's only soo much one can do.

Exactly...go ahead with the Giant Squids....either the omni or card (I can't imagine there is that much difference in those small mics).

There certainly is a difference... but I don't think obeythekitten really knows what he/she wants. Just because mics are "stealthy" doesn't mean that all stealthy mics have the same sound.
Buy the omnis with bass roll.

[dklein]

another vote for the GS omnis.  Giant Squid and Core sound both use panasonic capsules.  The more expensive CSBs are Linkwitz modified - more linear, sound better BUT it also drops the sensitivity and I would NOT recommend their use with a JB3.

The low end CSBs or Squids are unmodified panasonic capsules - don't sound quite as good have have a higher output level and you NEED that for the JB3 if you don't have a preamp.  Do not use mic-in because it severely rolls off the high frequencies.  Run line-in and use the 12dB of gain available to bring your levels up.

Haven't heard the squid cardiods but the core sound cards are nasty sounding.  And chances are, they're the same panasonic capsules again.

[obeythekitten]

There certainly is a difference... but I don't think obeythekitten really knows what he/she wants. Just because mics are "stealthy" doesn't mean that all stealthy mics have the same sound.
Buy the omnis with bass roll.

this is correct. i honestly don't know what i need or want, just something so that i can get my feet wet to see if taping is something i really enjoy before i go investing a shitload of money into it.

i purchased the squid omnis with bass roll off and they were shipped monday, i hope to attempt to tape my first show next wednesday (umphrey's mcgee @ the paradise in boston, ma)

[bush]

i purchased the squid omnis with bass roll off and they were shipped monday, i hope to attempt to tape my first show next wednesday (umphrey's mcgee @ the paradise in boston, ma)

Good deal...have fun with the new mics

+T for new toys

Umphrees puts on a good show, enjoy the tapes!!!

[BobW]

I read this thread before my first cup of coffee, so this may be a repeat:

Omnis on a stand = Monophonic Recording
Omnis need wide separation (a few feet or more) for Stereo
Or one of Moke's Jecklin Disker things, or a head between them.

Not that Mono is inherently bad, it's just not Stereo.
I'll take a full, well-balanced Mono over a thin or phasey Stereo recording anytime.

[recordista]

the mic-in analog stage of the JB3

There is no mic-in analog stage on an NJB3.  It's a fair-to-middlin' line input which requires about 0 dBu to hit FS.  Doesn't quite match to either consumer or pro gear but if you feed it the right signal level, it's not all that bad--especially when you consider the $180 (refurb) price of the box.   regularly use one for conference recording (frontended by a Sound Devices 302.)

[Sean Gallemore]

I take back what I said in this thread prviously.  You do what you can within your budget and if GSO > JB3 is the budget, then so be it.  If you feel taping is for you and you save up for better gear, more power to you.  We'll be here to answer those questions, too.