Topic: M-Audio MicroTrack I/II as Bit-Bucket Survey

[Brian Skalinder]

Please only respond if you have DIRECT, FIRST-HAND experience with the M-Audio MicroTrack I and II.

[Jhurlbs81]

Good Poll Brian!

I'd also add just to be clear for everyone voting.  A bit bucket means you're only recoding through the SPDIF input on the deck.  I've seen the term misused, and while I'm sure everyone knows that let's just make sure  ...I'm interested in the results others have with this deck.

I was just having a friendly debate about this in another thread.  I have owned both the MT1 and MT2.  I've had very good luck with both decks when running SPDIF out from either an AD2K or V3 at both 16 and 24 bits at various resolutions.  The only known bug I've experienced is it cannot continue to record if the bit stream is interrupted.  My V3 is pretty reliable at providing a stable bit stream so this hasn't been an issue for me.

I run mine off the 5v USB on a tekkeon 3450.  I use a 16GB card and record at 24/44.1 usually. The deck splits seamlessly at 2GB. 

For me it does just what I need to. 

[StuStu]

I used MT 1 for a short while. Not impressed with its freezing up. What it did record sounded fine. I was using its spdif input.

[willndmb]

I used MT 1 for a short while. Not impressed with its freezing up. What it did record sounded fine. I was using its spdif input.

this is where you will get flawed stats (at least from some users)
after the new firmware there were little to no issues buyt by then many people stopped using the device so they are not going to say it works good because they never experienced it

[Todd R]

I got a MTI when it first came out and used it for quite some time.  I voted reliable but problematic.  Not really that it wasn't reliable once I understood its idiosynchraties, but its quirks and difficulties led me to replace it.

I did go thru several firmware updates, so enough I think that it was fixed/stable.  But it still had things like if I kept it in record pause for too long, it would shut off.  But if at the same time I had the external battery connected, it wouldn't really shut off, it would go into charging mode, and it couldn't be woken up properly, so I'd have to remove the external battery to get it up and running again, and then get it back into record mode.  (At least that's how I remember it, I could have it bungled up.)  At any rate, I'd never want to have the external battery connected until the recording got going and the set was started.  And sometimes I'd forget to plug it in right away and would always agonize over whether I should plug in the external battery mid-set or avoid it.

IIRC, I only lost one recording to the MT's quirks (and had a 16bit backup from my iRiver, so nothing was lost).  And that was out of many, many successful recordings.  Still, I want something that is more reliable (or gives me the impression of being more reliable), so I got rid of it.  And went the to the opposite end of the spectrum and got a 722, though I've now settled more in the middle part of the spectrum with an R44 and D50.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I voted for Not Reliable... But any component that isn't reliable is effectively worthless for recording live events.  I keep it for doing comps, where I never depend on it.

The jb3 was a far more reliable, and better engineered, device.

[greenone]

My experience is sort of between options 2 and 3 - I find it mostly reliable, but problematic at times. However, my upgrade path will likely be from MTI to MTII. The problems that I've had with it have ranged from a bad S/PDIF connection (which I think was on my V3 rather than on the MT) to failure to recognize a CF card it's used before (I carry multiple cards now for just such an occasion) to poor battery life, to just plain shutting down in mid-concert.

However, I'm happy enough with it, and there are zero other options at that price point for recorders with S/PDIF in (which baffles me, frankly). Yeah, I'm bummed when something goes wrong, but this isn't life or death for me. I think very few of my issues have been due to the MT itself - mostly human error or bad media.

[Chuck]

I voted:  Very reliable once I understood its idiosyncrasies.

[kirk97132]

I use a MTI at times and only as a secondary unit.  I find it to be ok when it works but sometimes a pain in the ass to get working.  And I have on CF card that it does not like to read which takes multiple boots to get it to see it.  If it wasn't free I'd be pissed but since it was given to me I am probably more likely to shrug my shoulders and let it go.  I would never buy one. 

[jlykos]

Had an original MT.  Not at all reliable.  Used it 15 times and lost two recordings.  That's not a good ratio.

Edit to add that the A/D in it is pure shit.  Like an ADC-20 but at 24 bits to amplify its awfulness.  Thin and tinny.  This is definitely a consideration if you want to record off a soundboard.

[Brian Skalinder]

I'm curious:  For those of you reporting Not at all reliable or Worthless POS...

• Were you an early adopter?
• Do you recall which firmware version you were using?

Just trying to get a sense for how many of the respondees' issues are potentially linked to early adoption and therefore crappy early firmware.

[barrettphisher]

Bought mine used a few months back.  Use it strictly as a bit bucket and have had zero issues.  I'd buy one to use only in a bit bucket application. 
Barrett

[JGuitar02]

I got an MT II to use as a bit bucket fed via SPDIF from an Apogee Mini-Me. It's worked quite well for this purpose.

I agree that the A/D on the MT II sounds bad, but I never use it for that purpose, so it's not an issue for me...

[jlykos]

I was not an early adopter and was using the latest firmware (forget which number) that supposedly fixed all of the issues.  Not so, I found.

[willndmb]

i got mine in the middle of people saying it was good and others saying it sucked
upgraded to the latest firmware when it came out (1.4 maybe ??)
never had any issues on the firmware that came with it or the latest
i have gone digi in and 1/4 in
1/4 i have gone line out of a satellite radio as was as mics > bb >
everything sounded fine to me
i will say it gets hot if you use a microdrive for hrs on end though, not so hot it burns or i ever got worried but hot enough you notice it

[Chris K]

I bought the MT 1 when it first came out using that guitar center receipt that was floating around so my local gc would match the price. I have used it line in (from nbox, jklabs box, and various venue soundboards) and as a bit bucket (from V3 and Yamaha 01V digital mixer). It is a bit finicky, but you can get quality results. IMO the most important things to remember are:

1) be patient with it...what I mean is...it takes a while to boot up and it takes a while to "react" after pushing record, play etc.
2) reformat the card before a new recording session, but only after transferring your audio files of the MT and onto your computer, and after making a backup copy (dvd/cd etc)
3) when going DIGI IN make sure your preamp is on and feeding a spdif signal PRIOR to turning on your MT
4) if you need to change the bit rate on the device (from 16 to 24) then you should reboot the MT
5) do not keep presing the record button...it takes about 3 to 5 secods for it to start recording (again be patient)...soon you will see the timer ticking up and you know you will be good. Again be patient.
6) make sure you have a quality external battery pack

My pet peaves...non replaceable internal batteries. Slow reaction time, not a good music player. I have lost some sets but mainly user error, although battery life and full non-reformatted cards have also been culprits.

I voted that it was reliable, but I would get a new device to use as a bit bucket once it comes out and I can afford it.

[popskull]

I use my Microtrack II for archiving tons of DAT and Cassette as well as live music, being fed by a SBM1 and Apogee Mini Me.

I have recently noticed something in regards to DMA

If I am using the MTII as a 16 bit bitbucket, I need to turn DMA on to avoid an occasional spdif not detected message.

If I am going 24bit 96 or 44 with the apogee, I need to turn DMA off, as the MTII will lock up.

Any one else notice similar experiences??

cheers- Mike

[jsfrank]

I just updated my firmware on my MT 2496. I was still using 1.2.3.

 

[chrisdavis]

"Very reliable once I understood its idiosyncrasies"

- describes my experience with the jb3 & MT-II.  i just started experiencing issues with the mt2, mostly its been very consistent.

after a year of flawless service, the mt2 burned me good...
http://www.archive.org/details/furthur2010-02-10.ca11-partial.colGeorge-davis.106030.flac16

[chrisdavis]

I just updated my firmware on my MT 2496. I was still using 1.2.3.

 

thanks jeff, i hadnt thought about updating the firmware      just did it  :fingerscrossed:

[jsfrank]

Anyone have any experience running 32 gig Kingston elite pro 133x cards in the MT2496? I got one before 10K Lakes last year and after recording Gomez it wouldn't start the next set correctly. I pulled it out and haven't touched it until yesterday when I transferred that set and reformatted it. I am hoping the update from 1.2.3 to 1.4.5 will solve the problem. I also had a problem with it stopping during the Tea Leaf Green set using an 8 gig Sandisk Ultra II card and haven't used that since. I went back to using my trusty 4 gig Kingston elite pro 45x that I got in Fall of 2005 when I got my MT2496. I have been toying with the idea of getting a new recorder, but I want to give this one last chance.

[piperedworm]

Still have the original and never had a problem with it.  Today I use it mainly as a Digi in to patch from others to get a different recording, but in the past I used it Direct in TRS in with PH power on. no issues.  From what I hear, I may be very lucky.

I have seen many people have troubles with this unit and the Battery.  When I bought the MT originally I also bought a Beacon 5 Lith-ion battery that runs it for almost a day straight. 

Jeff

[Gil]

I'll let yinz know after tonight 

[gratefulphish]

My poor experiences were with an MT I.  I bought it in the Yard Sale, and it never worked properly.  Error messages, no file, etc.  It is a paperweight.  I am looking for another small digi-in bit bucket, so I was hoping that this thread would be full of positive reviews of the MT II.  While it does seem to be a little better, that is "damnation by faint praise."  Anyone have any other small decks with digi-in, preferably coax or AES, as opposed to optical?

[Todd R]

If you want to stay away from a MT and want to go coax in, the Marantz PMD661 seems like the best/smallest/cheapest option.  If you have an opti-modded V3 though, I'd really recommend the Sony D50.  I've had nothing but great experiences with mine, and I used it successfully quite a bit with my opti-modded V3 when I had it.  You can probably pick up a used D50 for $300-350.

[gratefulphish]

If you want to stay away from a MT and want to go coax in, the Marantz PMD661 seems like the best/smallest/cheapest option.  If you have an opti-modded V3 though, I'd really recommend the Sony D50.  I've had nothing but great experiences with mine, and I used it successfully quite a bit with my opti-modded V3 when I had it.  You can probably pick up a used D50 for $300-350.

Is there such a thing as an opti-mod, but still word clock enabled V3?  I actually use the word clock to sync the timing of the output of the V3, to the recording on the 722, so I intentionally did not buy an opti-mod.  Do you know whether Grace can put in the optical port, without disabling the word clock function, as the D50 is a lot smaller (and thus preferable) as the end bit bucket.  Thanks for your response.

[Todd R]

The grace opti-mod does get rid of the word clock out, I don't think there is any way around it.

That said, you don't need an actual word clock out to sync the 722 to a V3>D50 rig -- I did it all the time using the regular coax/spdif out of the V3.  V3 optical out to the D50 with what you want to record on those channels, then V3 coax out (or AES out) to the digital input of the 722/702.  Set the 722 to take analog input (I think the choices are digi-in, analog-in, or auto-select which selects the digital input if it is present or analog otherwise).  Something like that anyway, it's been awhile since I owned the 722 or 702 (owned both). You can't use the auto select option, but if you put a regular coax/spdif output attached to the digital in and select analog input on the 722, the 722 will strip the clock info from the incoming spdif signal and use it as it's clock, so the V3>D50 channels will be synced to the channels you're recording on the 722.  If you do this, an "L" or something like that shows up on the 722 LCD.

I don't know if this works to clock sync with a 744, but it works with both the 722 and 702.

[Gutbucket]

Never knew that was possible, cool feature.

+T

[willndmb]

The grace opti-mod does get rid of the word clock out, I don't think there is any way around it.

That said, you don't need an actual word clock out to sync the 722 to a V3>D50 rig -- I did it all the time using the regular coax/spdif out of the V3.  V3 optical out to the D50 with what you want to record on those channels, then V3 coax out (or AES out) to the digital input of the 722/702.  Set the 722 to take analog input (I think the choices are digi-in, analog-in, or auto-select which selects the digital input if it is present or analog otherwise).  Something like that anyway, it's been awhile since I owned the 722 or 702 (owned both). You can't use the auto select option, but if you put a regular coax/spdif output attached to the digital in and select analog input on the 722, the 722 will strip the clock info from the incoming spdif signal and use it as it's clock, so the V3>D50 channels will be synced to the channels you're recording on the 722.  If you do this, an "L" or something like that shows up on the 722 LCD.

I don't know if this works to clock sync with a 744, but it works with both the 722 and 702.

a similar thing can be done with the tascam unit (model hdp2??)

[goodcooker]

I bought ToddR's MT a few years ago and ran it with a V3. I saw a lot of similar rigs during that time.

If I kept myself to a routine...fully charging internal before show, establishing digi signal before powering on, etc I never really had any probs out of it. It locked up on me when I was recording Daniel Johnson (which I had to get special permission to do) and I  lost that one....if he had not been ill and put on a kinda rough show I would have been pissed.

The spdif connector being so close to that other port (usb port IIRC) was a MAJOR design flaw but an Apogee Wyde Eye spdif cable fits perfectly.

[gratefulphish]

The grace opti-mod does get rid of the word clock out, I don't think there is any way around it.

That said, you don't need an actual word clock out to sync the 722 to a V3>D50 rig -- I did it all the time using the regular coax/spdif out of the V3.  V3 optical out to the D50 with what you want to record on those channels, then V3 coax out (or AES out) to the digital input of the 722/702.  Set the 722 to take analog input (I think the choices are digi-in, analog-in, or auto-select which selects the digital input if it is present or analog otherwise).  Something like that anyway, it's been awhile since I owned the 722 or 702 (owned both). You can't use the auto select option, but if you put a regular coax/spdif output attached to the digital in and select analog input on the 722, the 722 will strip the clock info from the incoming spdif signal and use it as it's clock, so the V3>D50 channels will be synced to the channels you're recording on the 722.  If you do this, an "L" or something like that shows up on the 722 LCD.

I don't know if this works to clock sync with a 744, but it works with both the 722 and 702.

Thanks for this info Todd.  I will have to set up the gear, and see whether it takes the clock from the V3, if I run a coax into the digi-in on the 722, even though the 722 is set to analog.  If that works, then I need to find an opti-mod V3 owner who wanted to swap.

[jsfrank]

The latest firmware seems to have made a big difference. I also think I forgot to format the 32 gig card before I used it at 10K Lakes last year. It is working fine now. I am running it every night for 5-6 hours to make sure I can 100% count on it when I head out for my mini Furthur tour and Allgood. I love the idea of having 48 hours of recording time at 16/44.1 after having been restricted to 6 on my trusty old 4 gig card.

[dallman]

I love using my MT2496, and I have had it since it was first released. I have not had any issues in years. I own and Olympus LS-10 and a Tascam DR-07 for low pro situations, but the truth is that when I do not want to worry about anything I take the MT. I have it down to a science and it is the most versaitile of all the above mentioned decks. It has it's quirks, but what deck does not.

[jsfrank]

Since the MT II was just over $150 on Amazon I upgraded to one. It does feel a lot more solid. 

[Rockinman59]

After a few issues over the past year, I think I have it working fine at 24/96 with digital in.  The DMA setting to OFF coupled with using ONLY the brand RiData CF cards have rendered the past 15 or so recordings successful.    It has not shut off instead of switching to the next file nor has it cut out on one channel part of the way through a recording.  Kingston CF cards suck period and are not compatable with the MTII nor is the Lexor brand.  San Disk and RiData have had zero problems. 

Is the latest firmware 1.0.7 ?  That's what I have currently with no problems.



Tom

[ghibliss]

I have owned both the MT I and MT II recorders since the MT I was released as I was an early adopter.  The MT I had firmware issues which did not affect my usage aside from 24 bit 96 recording initially.  I always used an external spdif signal so the poor internal mic preamplifiers were avoided and the sound quality was excellent.  The new MT II that I use with a Transcend Digital 400X 16 GB card works very well and I have never had any issues recording with it.  I use the same spdif source signal which is always 24/96 with a pair of dpa 4061 microphones for taping in small venue clubs.

I feel that the MT recorders got off to a bit of a rocky start with their firmware which was a poor experience for several early adopters.  Rightfully so they decided to ditch the recorder for something else which seemed more reliable as loosing a recording is always a really traumatic experience for several of us!  I have to say that the MT II is a very stable machine and have yet to stumble on any shortcomings (knock on wood)!  I need to have a stealth rig at the venues which I frequent in New York City as recording is highly frowned upon in most of these clubs.  The Microtrack is the smallest recorder that I know of which provides an spdif input and 24/96 for me to connect my mic preamplifier a/d converter to.  All other recorders are considerably more expensive and significantly larger in size making it far less convenient to be able to get in without being noticed if they are checking at the venue.