Author Topic: JB3 or wait for Hi-MD ? (Read 9601 times)

skua · « **on:** February 19, 2004, 05:05:10 PM »

Been looking to replace my dead (but formerly trusty) WM-D3 and jump into the digital world.

Thinking JB3 or wait for the new Hi-MD units...
once the recording unit is selected then add SP-SPSB1S and a set of SP-CMC2's.

The JB3 seems a little large for Stealth-ability... I want to record shows at small to medium sized venues... mostly hard-rock and metal type stuff.

Would these suggested setups make for decent (although fairly low-budget) recording rigs?

How hard is the JB3 to operate under 'stealth' conditions? Is the remote unit worth the extra $50.00 ? Been reading the forums here and at nomadness but can't tell how hard the JB3 is to operate under live fire conditions!

And can someone clarify the new 'seamless' track feature? Is that just to get around the 3GB file size limitation of the JB3?

Thanks for your input. You folks have been real helpful on my other questions!

cpclark · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2004, 05:37:20 PM »

cant answer all your questions, but here goes. the hi-md recorders when they first come out will be a lot more expensive and you will have very expensive media taboot, 8 dollars a piece. althlough the jb3 is about the size of a discman, it can be stealthed and at the price for a refurbed one, 179, i would see if it is feasible to stealth with. the seamless track feature(which has a thread in one of the forums) would give you a very short gap between creating a new track on the fly. i have run md and really dont think it is a very good platform for live recordings, it is small, but atrac is messy, but with hi-md you will be able to record wav, but it will be very expensive and you still have to do a tape flip, just have a little more time than just 80min. i'd read around in the forums and use the search feature to get a lot more info before you decide to go MD.

Karl · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2004, 07:04:51 PM »

Though Hi-MD is tempting, I wouldn't do it. With the JB3, you never have a tape flip, and you never have to pay for blank media. Batteries (with 2 of 'em) will last you 4+ hrs. Stealthability really isn't an issue-though it's not as small as MD, it's really easy to pass it off as a discman, and no one is going to confiscate a discman.

Though, JB3 doesn't provide plug-in power for mics, and that might be an issue if you are used to the way MD works, and even the WM-D3 (I used to run one of those). Though I would still recommend running the JB3 and running a batt box (you should be doing that anyway) and/or a preamp.

zowie · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2004, 07:57:34 PM »

JB3 - because after the next big thing comes out for recording, you'll still have a fanstastic MP3 player to use.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2004, 09:34:06 AM »

plus, these jb3's(if run behind the right stuff), proves to be bit accurate, and on top of that, is like having nothing but 90 meter tapes around ;)which isnt a bad thing, plus, if running out of a pre/ad, like i am outta the v3, its about saving money on blank media, plus quick transfers, and many other pro's, and for the money, cant go wrong(i spent about 400 bux once i was done(jb3, extra batt, hosa aes>coax(optical) converter, aes cable, and batt charger for the hosa, is about 400 dollars, which youll end up saving more in not buying media)

so those are a few reasons why ill be running a jb3 instead of a d-8, which i will fix one of these days, but for never buying media again, to me, its worth it for that alone ;)think im happy about not buying media anymore

BC · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2004, 07:16:41 PM »

Quote from: bean on February 20, 2004, 09:34:06 AM

plus, these jb3's(if run behind the right stuff), proves to be bit accurate, and on top of that, is like having nothing but 90 meter tapes around ;)which isnt a bad thing, plus, if running out of a pre/ad, like i am outta the v3, its about saving money on blank media, plus quick transfers, and many other pro's, and for the money, cant go wrong(i spent about 400 bux once i was done(jb3, extra batt, hosa aes>coax(optical) converter, aes cable, and batt charger for the hosa, is about 400 dollars, which youll end up saving more in not buying media)

so those are a few reasons why ill be running a jb3 instead of a d-8, which i will fix one of these days, but for never buying media again, to me, its worth it for that alone ;)think im happy about not buying media anymore

Agreed, some things I love about recording to hard drive are

1) No more worrying about running out of tape during the show (how many times at the 1:45 mark have you guys started saying, "shit, maybe I should have put in that damn 3 hour tape!"). You can start recording way before the show starts and go take a leak near showtime with no worries.

2) no more buying expensive blank media (optical disc archiving is pretty cheap these days)

Oh yeah,

3) I have never had a dropout since I started recording to HD, with my D8 I was always worrying about drops and digi-noise. They were pretty rare, but I can't say that it never happened.

Take care,
Ben

PS: I will say that the bad side is that archiving stuff from HD can be a pain, not simply label-and-throw-it-in-the-rack like with removable media. But to me the above benefits make it worth it. Although I suppose if I was really lazy and had the money I could just dump everything via firewire to a big-ass HD and store the HD's, this would make archiving really painless.

porphyry · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2004, 12:38:23 AM »

i'm also faced with a JB3 vs. Hi-MD dilemma.

probably the only reason for why i haven't definitely decided on JB3 is that people have said on this forum that it has a lousy AD converter, and if you are stealthing shows (like me) and an external converter isn't practical, then this is a problem. i've never had a problem with the AD converter on my Sony MZ-N10 because i think my recordings sound great considering the cheap equipment (SP batt box and mics) used so presumably the new Hi-MDs will also have good AD converters.

still have no scientific way of tasting these converters.

anyway that's my AU$0.03

Chapper · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2004, 05:41:22 AM »

I'd venture to say that the AD in the JB3 is as good as any of the AD's in the MD recorders. I've been running mine as a backup, analog in from my MP2, and wouldn't say the A/D is horrible.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2004, 05:10:45 PM »

Quote from: porphyry on February 21, 2004, 12:38:23 AM

and if you are stealthing shows (like me) and an external converter isn't practical, then this is a problem.

I'll be the prick that disagrees. There are 2 easy solutions

1) get a recorder with a good a/d (M1, D100, etc.)
2) get an external adc like you mentioned which IS very practical. Many a tapir use the denecke AD-20 and the sony sbm-1 for this with great results.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2004, 05:19:12 PM »

a setup i really like after only hearing one recording is the audix-hc>ps-2>ad/20>jb3 recording, its pretty damn impressive, to say the least(hint, hint, schwill)

porphyry · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2004, 09:31:36 PM »

AD-20? nah too big.

actually the really fucked up thing about Hi-MD is that it won't let you upload digital recordings to your PC (only those made via analogue). so for anyone with an external AD then Hi-MD is out of the question and JB3 wins this battle.

plus: since the JB3 is about 2-3 times the size of what the top-of-the-range Hi-MD recorder will be just makes the added size of the AD-20 even less reasonable.

i restrict myself to what i can fit down my pants (and no, before someone else says it, there isn't lots of spare room down there).

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2004, 10:57:23 PM »

Quote from: porphyry on February 21, 2004, 09:31:36 PM

AD-20? nah too big.

actually the really fucked up thing about Hi-MD is that it won't let you upload digital recordings to your PC (only those made via analogue). so for anyone with an external AD then Hi-MD is out of the question and JB3 wins this battle.

plus: since the JB3 is about 2-3 times the size of what the top-of-the-range Hi-MD recorder will be just makes the added size of the AD-20 even less reasonable.

i restrict myself to what i can fit down my pants (and no, before someone else says it, there isn't lots of spare room down there).

HJKHJKHJKHjksdfhgjk;hdzfkj;nhadk;fjklo;kftoj;trj

I'm speechless and don't care anymore so I'll shut up

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2004, 12:30:14 AM »

go jb3

skua · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2004, 02:41:33 PM »

Thanks to all for their input. I still haven't made my decision... but your advice is greatly appreciated. My biggest problem with the JB3 is that it's too damn big... why the hell did they have to make it look like a CD player!? ... but I'm still considering it.

I'm also looking at the Archos Gmini 120 as a possible solution. While it seems to have some digital input recording problems... I really want it to record analog input from a mic. The unit is a little smaller than my old cassette rig and looks to be easy to hide.

Hi-MD only looks appealing in that the recorders are extremely small and would be easy to get in to nearly any venue I normally go to.

Damn... looks like I'm going to miss the chance to record Opeth this coming Thursday. ;-)

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2004, 05:02:16 PM »

why miss?

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2004, 05:29:57 PM »

Quote from: skua on February 22, 2004, 02:41:33 PM

why the hell did they have to make it look like a CD player!?

Yeah, no doubt it's a completely dufus form-factor.

But FWIW - as others have already mentioned, I think - there are people stealthing out there with gear like Sonosax SX-M2 > SBM-1 > Sony portable DAT. IMO stealthing AD-20 > JB3 isn't all that impractical. The JB3 isn't much bigger than a D7/D8. Whatever you decide, let us know and have fun!

jpschust · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2004, 06:38:57 PM »

also the jb3 looks like a cd player, no one is gonna suspect it really for a recording device

zhianosatch · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2004, 05:46:43 AM »

Quote from: porphyry on February 21, 2004, 09:31:36 PM

AD-20? nah too big.

actually the really fucked up thing about Hi-MD is that it won't let you upload digital recordings to your PC (only those made via analogue). so for anyone with an external AD then Hi-MD is out of the question and JB3 wins this battle.

plus: since the JB3 is about 2-3 times the size of what the top-of-the-range Hi-MD recorder will be just makes the added size of the AD-20 even less reasonable.

i restrict myself to what i can fit down my pants (and no, before someone else says it, there isn't lots of spare room down there).

there are so many things wrong with this post that i don't know where to start. i'll work on it tomorrow. good golly.

thacount1 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:00:31 PM »

I'm new to njb3 and this board. I just recieved my jb3 on friday and couldn't be happier with it. I used minidisc for 4 years and am so glad to be done with it. I own two minidisc recorders in that time and had so many problems with dropouts skipping, setting levels, disc capacity. Who knows if the new Hi-D minidiscs will have these problems.

The big argument against the njb3 is the lack of mic in. So you need to use either a battery box/preamp or an external A/D converter.

Some people have been saying that the onboard A/D converter on the line in stinks on the JB3. After reading this:

http://audio.rightmark.org/test/creative-jukebox3-rec.html

and hearing it myself I disagree. While I'm sure it's nothing like having an external A/D converter, I suspect it's every bit as good as the ones found in a minidisc recorder. Let's face it, your external preamp is going to be better than the mic pre in the minidisc, and I just don't believe that sony is breaking the bank on the converters in their portable minidiscs.

Also if you get a refurbished njb3 on ebay your going to spend MUCH less than on a minidisc reorder.

My $.06

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:23:35 PM »

Quote from: thacount1 on February 23, 2004, 01:00:31 PM

The big argument against the njb3 is the lack of mic in.

Well, it has mic-in, but David Klein and I'm sure others have done some testing and identified it's pretty darn poor. Line-in sounds much better. I'd be curious to hear some JB3 recordings line-in with an external preamp. I've been considering doing a V3 analog > JB3/D100 field test to compare the ADCs but just haven't been motivated. Maybe I'll do a test at home instead of in the field, it'll at least give some idea how they compare even if it's not a real field test.

Quote from: thacount1 on February 23, 2004, 01:00:31 PM

http://audio.rightmark.org/test/creative-jukebox3-rec.html

The numbers are nice and all, but they won't tell us how it *sounds*.

Quote from: thacount1 on February 23, 2004, 01:00:31 PM

and hearing it myself I disagree. While I'm sure it's nothing like having an external A/D converter, I suspect it's every bit as good as the ones found in a minidisc recorder.

Ahhhh...I jumped the gun above - good to hear it compares to MD ADCs to your ears. Have you done any direct comparisons? Just curious. It may be a better stealth option than some realize as long as stealthers can run line-in to the JB3.

Sharky · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2004, 02:16:27 PM »

has anyone taken their jb3 apart to see if it would be possible to reassemble it into a smaller package? Would be a good backyard project.

i would like to see a nomad jb3 taken apart. Any pictures out there?

zhianosatch · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2004, 02:19:11 PM »

Quote from: Sharky on February 23, 2004, 02:16:27 PM

has anyone taken their jb3 apart

Daryan Lenz did, then sold it on eBay!

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2004, 02:19:57 PM »

Quote from: Sharky on February 23, 2004, 02:16:27 PM

has anyone taken their jb3 apart to see if it would be possible to reassemble it into a smaller package? Would be a good backyard project.

i would like to see a nomad jb3 taken apart. Any pictures out there?

smaller??? campared to a full size dat deck(dap1, d10, portadat, etc) this thing is VERY small, i am quite comfortable and happy w/ its shape thus far

Sharky · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2004, 02:36:29 PM »

http://www.hardware-one.com/print_review.asp?reviews=249
doesnt look like it could be. lots of scary chips and wire inside.

VA_TAPER · « **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2004, 10:07:20 PM »

Quote from: Brian Skalinder on February 23, 2004, 01:23:35 PM

I'd be curious to hear some JB3 recordings line-in with an external preamp. I've been considering doing a V3 analog > JB3/D100 field test to compare the ADCs but just haven't been motivated. Maybe I'll do a test at home instead of in the field, it'll at least give some idea how they compare even if it's not a real field test.

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=5350
Source: MXL1006BP + CAD E-100 (Center Blend) > Behringer MXB1002 > Nomad JB3 @44.1

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=4881
Source: MXL1006BP + EV RE-20 + ECM8000 + CAD E-100 > Behringer MXB1002 > Nomad JB3 @44.1k (Live Studio Recording)

peace, chris

Ed. · « **Reply #25 on:** February 24, 2004, 01:03:55 AM »

keep in mind that the njb3 uses a normal laptop hdd and holds 2 rather large batteries, its gonna be hard to get that thing in a smaller package. and to all of you who say it can't be stealthed, you're wrong - cuz it can very easily be stealthed. also, to be completely honest, i've gotten nothing but compliments when i run stealth with just DAB > Bat box > line in on it. No it doesn't sound as good as running a pre/adc out front, but its still hands down better than an md. and the quality is noticeable upon first listen.

ed

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #26 on:** February 29, 2004, 09:33:38 PM »

Quote from: porphyry on February 21, 2004, 12:38:23 AM

probably the only reason for why i haven't definitely decided on JB3 is that people have said on this forum that it has a lousy AD converter, and if you are stealthing shows (like me) and an external converter isn't practical, then this is a problem.

If you haven't already - decide for yourself, here's an NJB3 / D100 ADC comp. Too bad more people didn't listen and post their thoughts. FWIW, results here and at STG are about 50% prefering source 1, and 50% preferring source 2. DON'T read the whole thread if you want to wait til after you listen to the comp to find out which source is which.

BobW · « **Reply #27 on:** February 29, 2004, 10:12:00 PM »

Will a NJ 20GB record ? Or must it be a JB3 ?

Is there firmware support on the JB models ? How 'bout the hacks ?

Chad817 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 06, 2004, 12:07:15 PM »

Quote from: Chapper on February 21, 2004, 05:41:22 AM

I'd venture to say that the AD in the JB3 is as good as any of the AD's in the MD recorders. I've been running mine as a backup, analog in from my MP2, and wouldn't say the A/D is horrible.

The A/D on my jb3 sounds worlds better than my sharp 722 MD

porphyry · « **Reply #29 on:** March 08, 2004, 03:09:41 AM »

Quote

Quote from: porphyry on February 21, 2004, 01:31:36 PM
AD-20? nah too big.

actually the really fucked up thing about Hi-MD is that it won't let you upload digital recordings to your PC (only those made via analogue). so for anyone with an external AD then Hi-MD is out of the question and JB3 wins this battle.

plus: since the JB3 is about 2-3 times the size of what the top-of-the-range Hi-MD recorder will be just makes the added size of the AD-20 even less reasonable.

i restrict myself to what i can fit down my pants (and no, before someone else says it, there isn't lots of spare room down there).

there are so many things wrong with this post that i don't know where to start. i'll work on it tomorrow. good golly.

well... come on then, let's hear it.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #30 on:** March 08, 2004, 03:35:52 AM »

i think you got called out, dihd!

skua · « **Reply #31 on:** May 08, 2004, 12:05:40 AM »

Well... I ended up not trying the JB3 or waiting for HiMD...
I picked up an Archos Gmini 120 and a set of SP-CMC-2's with a SP battery box. The Archos is very small and is easily Stealthed. Only made it to one show so far... but I'm happy with the results.

Yngwie Malmsteen 2004.04.06 Allentown, PA (FLAC)
I've posted the show on STG ... link here: http://tinyurl.com/38r8v

Thanks
-skua-

Author Topic: JB3 or wait for Hi-MD ? (Read 9601 times)

cpclark

zowie

jpschust

BobW