Topic: Excessive hiss/poor recordings with Tascam DR-03 + Olympus T-mic

[jj69]

I’m not sure if this should be in the "Microphones" section or in the "Recording Gear" section, so I’ll post it here…

I recently replaced my trusty MicroTrack II with a new Tascam DR-03.  Although I was happy with the recordings I made with the MTII, the battery was getting a bit flaky and I like the smaller size and updated interface of the DR-03.  Unfortunately, my first recordings made with the Tascam and the same mic have been disappointing. 

The mic is a simple Olympus ME-51S “T-mic” that I bought for no other reason than the fact that I don’t like being bothered with wires.  Here’s a link to some details about the mic:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/496651-REG/Olympus_145037_ME_51S_Stereo_Microphone.html

The quality of my recordings with this mic into the MTII was always fine for me.  However, recordings made with the same mic into the DR-03 have a more “closed in,” less open sound, and there is significantly more background hiss.  I’m not sure if the problem is that the internal mic preamp in the DR-03 is inferior to the preamp in the MTII, or if the Olympus mic just made a good synergistic match with the MTII and not so much with the DR-03. 

One thing I noticed is that the DR-03 is far more sensitive.  The DR-03 input level can be adjusted on a scale from 0 to 35.  When recording a loud rock show, I cannot set the input level above 0 or maybe 1, or else the recording will overload.  Only if I set the input level to 0 or 1 can I prevent the levels from clipping.  I assume this has to do with the internal mic preamp.  I’m really not sure. 

Is the DR-03’s preamp known to be noisy? 

Would it be possible for me to set the DR-03 to “Line In” with this same mic without using an external preamp? 

Does anyone have any other ideas as to what's going on and how I could improve this? 

I’m obviously pretty clueless, so any insight or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

[anr]

I think you've pretty well worked it out.  Give it a try with Line In. 

And you are quite right asserting the mic is right for what you want.  I used to use something  similar (a Sony that came with my first Walkman Pro) as a backup and very often it produced the better recording (to my ears, which is what counts).  Still have it and it will never let me down if used with a MD, but is awful with an H2 or RO-9. 

[jj69]

Thanks Anr.  I guess I was apprehensive about using the Line In because I wasn't sure how a mic pre works.  I was afraid it worked like a phono preamplifier, with some kind of standardized EQ curve built into it. 

I'm not sure if this will be of any help, but below I've pasted all the specs I could find for the inputs of both units.  I'm not sure how the "Input Level" spec given for the MTII compares to the "Nominal" and "Maximum" input level specs given for the DR-03.  I'm just wondering if the DR-03 input set to LINE will compare favorably to the mic input of the MTII? 

SPECS:

Input Impedence: 200 kO (both units)

Input Level: -14dB (MTII)

Nominal Input Level LOW: -45dBV (DR-03 set to MIC)
Nominal Input Level  HIGH: -61dBV   (DR-03 set to MIC)
Maximum Input Level LOW: -29dBV   (DR-03 set to MIC)
Maximum Input Level HIGH: -45dBV (DR-03 set to MIC)

Nominal Input Level LOW: -19dBV (DR-03 set to LINE)
Nominal Input Level HIGH: -31dBV (DR-03 set to LINE)
Maximum Input Level LOW: - 3dBV (DR-03 set to LINE)
Maximum Input Level HIGH: - 3dBV (DR-03 set to LINE)

Pre-amp Gain:          >34dB (MTII)
Frequency Response:       20 to 20 kHz +/- 0.5 dB (MTII)
Dynamic Range:          98 dBA (MTII)
Crosstalk:          <100dB (MTII)
THD + Noise:          .003% (-90 dB) @ -1 dBFS/1 kHz (MTII)

[jj69]

I just tried making a test recording using the Olympus mic and the DR-03 set to LINE IN.  Unfortunately, it looks like there is nowhere near enough gain without using any mic pre.  I can't even get the record meters to register anything with the gain set all the way up. 

Looks like the internal mic pre may be the Achilles heel of the DR-03. 

I guess I'm back to square one.  Any other suggestions? 

[runonce]

I just tried making a test recording using the Olympus mic and the DR-03 set to LINE IN.  Unfortunately, it looks like there is nowhere near enough gain without using any mic pre.  I can't even get the record meters to register anything with the gain set all the way up. 

Looks like the internal mic pre may be the Achilles heel of the DR-03. 

I guess I'm back to square one.  Any other suggestions?

Source? I wouldnt rely on a home stereo to simulate a PA.

Have a loud guitar amp or something?

[jj69]

You're right.  I just turned up the radio really loud.  I just assumed that would be enough to at least register something on the input levels...

[jj69]

I'm still not getting any audio at all with the input set to LINE.  I think what's happening is that the DR-03 probably supplies no power to the mic when it's set to LINE, and even this small Olympus mic requires some kind of external power to function. 

At least that's the only explanation that makes sense to me. 

I guess I've either got to use an external mike pre, or give up on the DR-03. 

[F.O.Bean]

I'm still not getting any audio at all with the input set to LINE.  I think what's happening is that the DR-03 probably supplies no power to the mic when it's set to LINE, and even this small Olympus mic requires some kind of external power to function. 

At least that's the only explanation that makes sense to me. 

I guess I've either got to use an external mike pre, or give up on the DR-03. 

I would take a serious look at the Sony PCM-M10. ALOT of us tapers have them, and for good reason I dont know how well the internal pres are, but you could get a Church Audio preamp and run that LINE-IN to a Sony M10

[jj69]

If I were to use an external pre like the Church Audio, then wouldn't the DR-03 be just as good as the Sony?  The only difference would be the ADC. 

I would consider picking up the Sony if I knew for sure that the internal mic pre is at least as good as the MicroTrack. 

I was thinking I could probably use my Olympus mic through the DR-03's LINE input if I get a mic battery box like the 9 volt Church Audio.  However, my goal was to stick with a one box solution, and that would defeat the purpose. 

[F.O.Bean]

If I were to use an external pre like the Church Audio, then wouldn't the DR-03 be just as good as the Sony?  The only difference would be the ADC. 

I would consider picking up the Sony if I knew for sure that the internal mic pre is at least as good as the MicroTrack. 

I was thinking I could probably use my Olympus mic through the DR-03's LINE input if I get a mic battery box like the 9 volt Church Audio.  However, my goal was to stick with a one box solution, and that would defeat the purpose. 

Yes, just keep the DR-03 and get a CA preamp. The only difference between the DR-03 vs. the M10 would be the ADC, which I doubt is very different

[aaronji]

I'm still not getting any audio at all with the input set to LINE.  I think what's happening is that the DR-03 probably supplies no power to the mic when it's set to LINE, and even this small Olympus mic requires some kind of external power to function. 

At least that's the only explanation that makes sense to me. 

I guess I've either got to use an external mike pre, or give up on the DR-03. 

It looks like that Olympus mic runs only on plug-in power, so you are right: you'll need an external battery box or pre to run it line-in...

Yes, just keep the DR-03 and get a CA preamp. The only difference between the DR-03 vs. the M10 would be the ADC, which I doubt is very different

Another difference is how hot a signal they can handle...The DR-03 will overload way before the M10.

[M]

Looks to me like you have five options.

1 - battery box - cheapest upgrade
2 - church preamp
3 - sony m10
4 - new mics <---this is what I recommend
5- keep using the microtrack but with external power

[jj69]

Thanks for the tips guys. 

I really don't want new mics.  I've been very happy with this one combined with the MTII. 

If I'm using the LINE in, then I don't think I would have to worry that the signal into the DR-03 would be too hot?  It's obviously a problem when using the MIC in, but the LINE in shouldn't matter. 

The advantage of the Sony, assuming the mic pre works for me, would be that it's a one-box solution.  The down side is the cost and the larger size of the unit. 

A battery box like the Church Bat 2B would be cheaper (although at $49.99 it costs almost as much as the DR-03), but it's an extra box and wire I really don't want to be bothered with. 

I placed an ISO post for a Church bat box in the Yard Sale section in case someone has an extra. 

[aaronji]

If I'm using the LINE in, then I don't think I would have to worry that the signal into the DR-03 would be too hot?  It's obviously a problem when using the MIC in, but the LINE in shouldn't matter. 

Maybe, maybe not.  Depends on the mics, the SPL at your taping location, and maybe the pre as well.  Given the spec you quoted above (max. line input of -3 dBV), the DR-03 wouldn't be too hard to overload at a loud rock show with decently sensitive mics, especially if you're using a pre with a fixed minimum gain...

[sunjan]

Just checked the specs of your mics:
Frequency Response    100Hz - 15kHz

if you want to invest more in your hobby, the best spent money would be to get better mics. You lose out on both highs and low end if you stick to this mic.
Talk to Chris about a starters combo...

[F.O.Bean]

Just checked the specs of your mics:
Frequency Response    100Hz - 15kHz

if you want to invest more in your hobby, the best spent money would be to get better mics. You lose out on both highs and low end if you stick to this mic.
Talk to Chris about a starters combo...

Yea I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND Church Audio or AT mini-mics, and a CA Preamp You will get MUCH better results, w/ out spending alot of money I would sell the Tascam, buy CA-14 Cards or Omnis or both, a CA Preamp[9000/9100/9200], and a Sony PCM-M10 and you will have a HQ rig that you can be happy w/ for many years to come

[Church-Audio]

Thanks for the tips guys. 

I really don't want new mics.  I've been very happy with this one combined with the MTII. 

If I'm using the LINE in, then I don't think I would have to worry that the signal into the DR-03 would be too hot?  It's obviously a problem when using the MIC in, but the LINE in shouldn't matter. 

The advantage of the Sony, assuming the mic pre works for me, would be that it's a one-box solution.  The down side is the cost and the larger size of the unit. 

A battery box like the Church Bat 2B would be cheaper (although at $49.99 it costs almost as much as the DR-03), but it's an extra box and wire I really don't want to be bothered with. 

I placed an ISO post for a Church bat box in the Yard Sale section in case someone has an extra.

The mics are crap in the end you will figure that out when you listen to other recordings made with other gear. I would do two things

Sell your recorder buy an Edirol r09hr or Sony buy a battery box and a pair of my mics to start. Then come back and tell us how much better your recordings sound. Not to blow my own horn but you simply cant compare that T mic to anything I make. Its a great mic for recording lectures and speeches but not for recording bands.