Topic: Noob question, choice of a recorder : Roland R-05, Tascam Dr-2D or Zoom H2 ?

[Trangsene]

LOL I think I will never make it !
In order to avoid using a pre-amp, the Marantz PMD620 was sounding interesting, but after a quick research I've seen several times it's not a recorder for music, more for the voice.

Back to square 1. It's very difficult to choose because I can't hear the difference between 2 recorders in the same conditions otherwise I could take the decision by myself 
The Zoom seemed good for a beginner like me but I must admit it's hard for me to invest money in something that seems so "plastic" 
Is there some other recorders good for music which avoid having to use pre-amp like the Marantz? I imagine it's far more expensive.

And I have another question for experienced tapers, maybe it will help me to choose, how do you adjust the level of recording if there isn't a first part ?
I've understood it's better to avoid auto-level. If you have to adjust level isn't it more pratictal to have buttons instead of menus for quick corrections?
The Tascam DR-2D records 2 files, one at a lower level to avoid clipping, I thought maybe it was a good thing for a beginner.

[nl]

In order to avoid using a pre-amp, the Marantz PMD620 was sounding interesting, but after a quick research I've seen several times it's not a recorder for music, more for the voice.

What?? The pre in the PMD620 isn't great but it is just fine for amplified shows. The internal mics do suck, that is true but if you run some Church Audio or Sound Professional mics straight into mic in, it sound just fine to me. If you tape acoustic or unamplified music, definitely get a separate pre like Church Audio CA-9100 or 9200.

That said, the PMD620 has been out for a long time and it still is quite expensive so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it now, unless you get a good deal on a used one. In Europe, I think your best bet is the R-05, unless you need the 4 track functionality of the Tascam.

[Trangsene]

Me again.

I'm still very puzzled adn not knowing which recorder to buy.

I've noticed you have sounds sample on thomann.de website ! Just what I wanted, to be able to compare recorders on the same basis.

I've decided to focus on the funk music sample and to compare how their internal mics sound for a start (I'll see for an external mic later), I hope it's relliable. The Tascam DR 2D and the OLYMPUS LS-11 sounds very metallic to me, the Edirol - R-09HR on the contrary sounds very muddy.

Finally, I think this ones have the best sound :

• MARANTZ PMD 620, sounds the best to me, on this particular sample, don't you think ?
• Zoom H4n
• SONY PCM-M10

The Zoom h4n seems to be a little bigger than the others, so less discreet to record a concert.
The Sony, acclaimed everywhere, sounds a little flat to me, but the button to adjust the record level seems very handy (you just have to turn it, not to press on +/- buttons).
If i've well understood you can adjust level recording on the Marantz only while recording ? Nl please can you confirm that ?

Finally  I'll maybe do my choice between the Marantz and the Sony that are both over my initial budget 

[nl]

If i've well understood you can adjust level recording on the Marantz only while recording ?

You can adjust the gain on the PMD620 in REC PAUSE and REC modes.

FYI, I think there is a PMD620 located in the Netherlands in the yard sale if you don't mind buying used. Will probably save you a bunch if you go that way.

[a_doubt]

Me again.

I'm still very puzzled adn not knowing which recorder to buy.

I've noticed you have sounds sample on thomann.de website ! Just what I wanted, to be able to compare recorders on the same basis.
(...)

Currently I'm looking for a new recorder to replace my MZ-RH 1 and I'd like to thank you for the link, those sound samples are a very good way to compare. Though I intend to use external mics, it's a comfortable way of experiencing what the internal mics of the different recorders are capable of.

What recorder did you buy in the end?

[Trangsene]

Finally I've found several recent good live recordings made by someone with a Roland R-05 and SP-CMC-8 with no-preamp.
So I've thrown all my theoretical researches away and decided to go for it, based on practical examples.
The R-05 is more in my budget (but not the mics !) and frankly the preamp stuff was painful for me.
I've just received the recorder, and I'm going to order the mics at Sound Professionals.
I hope I'll not be disappointed.

[a_doubt]

That's good to know, sometimes the practical examples are more convincing than reading specifications. I also lean towards buying the Roland R-05, it's also a budget question and it looks like the price/performance ratio is good.

And I also bought the SP-CMC-8 a few month ago, so it looks like we might use the same rig Though I also use a CA-9100 pre-amp, but also recorded mic-in in the past, but that was with my HiMD recorder, so I'm curious if it would work with the Roland R-05 as well. So please let us know how it worked, once you have taped with this combination.

[Trangsene]

By the way SP-CMC-8 can only be ordered at Sound Professionals I suppose ?
Somewhere in Europe would be easier for me 

[a_doubt]

I worried about that, too (I live in Germany), but ordering at Sound Professionals was easy, you can pay via PayPal and it took not long (I think about 2 weeks) until I got the parcel. I had to pay customs (but I already knew that) and had to pick up the package at the customs office, but other than that, very comfortable purchase.

You may check the Yard Sale here at TS, and maybe find someone in Europe selling their used SP-CMC-8, but I think most users are U.S. based.

[adrianf74]

By the way SP-CMC-8 can only be ordered at Sound Professionals I suppose ?
Somewhere in Europe would be easier for me 

Be cautious with the SP-CMC-8's -- I don't know if it's standard on the AT-943's but you'll want to make sure they're good at high SPLs.  I had the older SP-CMC-8 (AT-933/c which is a better sounding capsule to my ears) and it could overload (and did from time to time). 

For the money, you could easily get a package from Chris Church (Church Audio) with a CA-14 omni and a CA-14 card mic with battery box (if not a preamp) for the price of the SP-CMC-8's alone.  I'd sooner go that route (I've owned both mics and I much prefer the sound of the CA's to the SP's and I'm not alone in that regard).    I'll likely be selling my CA-14 omnis soon and maybe the preamp but that's another story.

[F.O.Bean]

I think the CA14S[CARDS/OMNIS] smoke the SP mics, but thats just IMO I cant wait for next summer so I can run a 2-3ft split for my newly acquired ca14 omnis

[vegeta_ban]

i don't understand the hate on the h2 here, i've used it as a backup for my "main gear", an oade concert mod r44, and have gotten good recordings from it. I just stick it on the t bar between my other mics and it works well. I've also used binaural mics with it and gotten good recordings.

[dallman]

i don't understand the hate on the h2 here, i've used it as a backup for my "main gear", an oade concert mod r44, and have gotten good recordings from it. I just stick it on the t bar between my other mics and it works well. I've also used binaural mics with it and gotten good recordings.

I wouldn't worry too much. If you like it, it is because it is a recorder capable of making excellent recordings. Similarly, there is a whole legion of people with MT2496's that love them, but no one talks about it as that is the recorder of choice for bashing (ok maybe a small legion, but still... ). So much of the differences we discuss and/or strive for are just nuances past the actual recording. That is part of the draw of the hobby. Get a good spot, don't dramatically screw up your settings, and you will get a great recording. Likewise, I have heard terrible recordings made with great gear.

[acidjack]

i don't understand the hate on the h2 here, i've used it as a backup for my "main gear", an oade concert mod r44, and have gotten good recordings from it. I just stick it on the t bar between my other mics and it works well. I've also used binaural mics with it and gotten good recordings.

I wouldn't worry too much. If you like it, it is because it is a recorder capable of making excellent recordings. Similarly, there is a whole legion of people with MT2496's that love them, but no one talks about it as that is the recorder of choice for bashing (ok maybe a small legion, but still... ). So much of the differences we discuss and/or strive for are just nuances past the actual recording. That is part of the draw of the hobby. Get a good spot, don't dramatically screw up your settings, and you will get a great recording. Likewise, I have heard terrible recordings made with great gear.

Also, the build quality of Zoom gear is crap.  Does it mean every single one breaks?  No.  Just like Tascam aka Trashcan, some percentage of the manufactured items work as intended (hey, not EVERY Chrysler made in the mid-80s-90s was a lemon).  But their reputation for reliability and quality is, er, not good, and their products aren't really cheaper than others that ARE reliable.

But the fact remains that some products have reputations for reliability and quality, and others don't.  Zooms are excellent for the casual person who wants an easy all-in-one thing to muck around with - like video guys who don't really care that much about audio and just want something easy.  But they're not made well, and not totally reliable - therefore, people who care about audio (i.e., tapers) avoid them for the most part.  The discussed use of having it as a backup... sure, why?  But I'd never use it for more than that.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Speaking of video and bashing Zoom, I have an anecdote about my last run-in with Zoom gear from a few weeks ago.  I was recording a band, getting a board feed and flying mics, and there was a woman there shooting video who I offered a patch out of my deck to.  She had a Zoom H4n which we initially had no problem setting up and getting levels on.  She goes off to shoot video and I stay busy with the audio.  With fresh batteries, the Zoom shut itself off within 20 minutes.  I turned it back on, hit record and it shut down again a few minutes later.  A half-hour later she came by to check on her recorder and I told her what happened.  Perplexed, she put another fresh set of batteries in the device, started it up, hit record and, sure enough, it burned through another set of batteries in less than 20 minutes.  Phantom wasn't on and we couldn't figure out why it was draining power so quickly.  Suffice to say, she was very happy that someone else had a good audio source and it strengthened my resolve not to buy gear that has a reputation for un-reliability.