Topic: Examples of Shotgun Mics sounding good

[runonce]

I know (and agree) that shotguns are not the best choice in most circumstances.
But the fact is - a lot of tapers ran this way.
Plenty of times - I've patched into guns - and just didn't "get it", but the guy a few stands over did - seems like a huge amount of luck involved.

So how about some examples of shotguns sounding good?

Here's one of SirMicks recordings that has been getting a some steady play at my place...

Grateful Dead Live at Glen Helen Regional Park on 1982-09-05
http://archive.org/details/gd1982-09-05.nak300.sirmick.87210.sbeok.flac16

This has that nice low, pumpy bass - and no shortage of clarity in the instruments - and still plenty of crowd feedback.

You can hear the guns shaping the mids and highs a bit - but I think my ears get used to it pretty quick.

I wonder if there was anything about PA/Speaker tech of this era that may have made guns not such a bad choice?

[ts]

I have a fine example of guns doing a great job. First problem is it's not my master. I have a first gen copy of the master. Second problem is there are some excellent sources of these shows already up. 10/9 and 10/10/82. The taper was FOB/DFC and quite close pointing at the inside edge of the stacks. Quite frankly it's one of the best recordings I've ever heard. Nak CM304's>D5. If I can get at the masters I will seed it someday.

[rocksuitcase]

I wonder if there was anything about PA/Speaker tech of this era that may have made guns not such a bad choice?

I do think there were some PA changes in summer 1982 which led to Don Pearson's Ultrasound becoming the sound company of choice, which then brought the wonderful Meyer Sound Speakers (and later amps, later integrated amps with Meyers SENSE technology) to the show. IIRC, summer 1982 was with The old sound company (can't remember their name at the moment) did all shows except the three Red Rocks shows in that summer run where Healy introduced the Meyer PA system. after that, they went with the other company until Fall 1982, then they went full time with Ultrasound. The old sound company used Crest Amplifiers and I believe the 1982-1983 Ultrasound setups also used Crest, then started using Meyer amplifiers with speakersense TM after that.

[Patrick]

This tape sourced from Nakamichi cp4's sounds pretty good.  Not a realistic sound by any means; the bass is intense but controlled and there is a big mid peak that is always attributed to the sound of these mics.  Still a pleasing recording to listen to.

http://archive.org/details/toubab2005-08-26

[page]

I think the modern dpa 4017s sound pretty good. They are still basically shotguns, but it's not bad. There is someone in NC who has a pair and the best sample to listen to on the archive is a Ratdog show in Atlanta.

[datbrad]

One big difference was the use of point source PA speakers in clusters, opposed to line arrays typically used today. Not sure if that helped the guns sound quality though. I was not fully satisfied when I ran a pair of NAK guns, but when I changed to running the CP4s with a card in the center indoors, and omni in the center outside, into an MX100 mixer, I loved the sound. Compromise is a constant for taping to get the best sound under whatever limits are faced, never more so than taping the Grateful Dead. On a side note, when I started taping Phish in '92, I did not like the way guns sounded for them at all, and only ran them a few times before switching to cards and hypers only by '94.

[darby]

same venue and day...

http://archive.org/details/phil2008-07-05.akg451.shotguns
http://archive.org/details/um2008-07-05.451

I typically only use them for quiet shows now

EDIT:
2 more

http://archive.org/details/thedead2009-05-07.akg468.flac16
http://archive.org/details/um2008-07-12.451

[PG]

I have a fine example of guns doing a great job. First problem is it's not my master. I have a first gen copy of the master. Second problem is there are some excellent sources of these shows already up. 10/9 and 10/10/82. The taper was FOB/DFC and quite close pointing at the inside edge of the stacks. Quite frankly it's one of the best recordings I've ever heard. Nak CM304's>D5. If I can get at the masters I will seed it someday.

Is that the FOB where you can hear someone yell "Thank God for the harvest!"? rangos?

[Hypnocracy]

Nak Guns pointed just inside of the middle of the stack...stand at about 7-8ft high in the average hockey arena ran into a Sony D5 in the OTS...That is what I thought the Grateful Dead sounded like when I got home or was riding down the road to the next venue...I was always happy and satisfied with the result...then again I wasn't in teh cool crowd down front...so I didn't screw it up for them I guess

[ts]

I have a fine example of guns doing a great job. First problem is it's not my master. I have a first gen copy of the master. Second problem is there are some excellent sources of these shows already up. 10/9 and 10/10/82. The taper was FOB/DFC and quite close pointing at the inside edge of the stacks. Quite frankly it's one of the best recordings I've ever heard. Nak CM304's>D5. If I can get at the masters I will seed it someday.

Is that the FOB where you can hear someone yell "Thank God for the harvest!"? rangos?

I'm pretty sure you're refering to Rango's FOB with Sony ECM 220T's. The recording I'm talking about is not in circulation. The guy who owns the master has never transfered any of his stuff. He was big in the midwest and Cali from '82 to about '89. 99% of his recordings are CM304. He has over 300 masters. Near the end he started getting lazy and would often end up all the way in the back just kinda winging it, but his early stuff is very nice. I have quite a few 1st gen copies of his stuff but the only way I would ever seed them is if his masters were gone. I lost touch with him about ten years ago.

[SmokinJoe]

Jumping forward to the modern era...
Here is one I'm fairly proud of, considering the OTS was in the last row under the balcony, and off to one side. http://archive.org/details/phil2007-10-10.nak300.flac16f
Here's another good one.  http://archive.org/details/um2008-08-09.nak300_guns  I'd take this gun source over the other sources.

When I had Nak guns I found them hit or miss.  As others have described, where you point them is critical, and they have the potential for enormous bass.  Lately I'm preferring the shorter guns like ME66's and CK8's.

[kindms]

The AKG ck8 shotgun cap is a very nice shotgun. We have pulled many fine tapes with those.

I was actually looking for my ryan montbleau from the egg in albany on 2008-10-04 (opened for Martin Sexton) but it appears I never bothered to upload it to the LMA.

[eric.B]

http://archive.org/details/gd1985-03-28.nak300.bmandel.78436.sbeok.shnf

[Red Boink]

Akg568

[mhlsr]

I recorded these shows with AT 897's short guns with pretty good results.
http://archive.org/details/Furthur2012-04-07.Furthur2012-04-07.AT897s
http://archive.org/details/furthur2011-07-22.at897.laurentus.114706.flac16
http://archive.org/details/furthur2010-07-30.at897.laurentus.109128.flac16
http://archive.org/details/furthur2010-06-26.at897.laurentus.108501.flac16
I had the DR100 but upgraded to the Dr100MKII, Doug Oade told me these Mics are
a nice match for the DR100. IMO I think the DR100MKII sounds a little cleaner on the 4/7 show
except for the whistler.