Topic: Newbiw to get new gear- what to get for a max of 300 euros?

[nicolaidenmark]

Hi all,

New to this forum and would appreciate some advice.

Over the years, I have done a couple of audience recordings using my Sony MZ710 (I believe it's called) MD and a sony ECM719 clip on mic.

I'm looking to do stealth recording and due to walking disability (caused by cerebral palsy) I need a new SIMPLE setup as my MD is starting to act weird.

Examples of a songs I have recorded with said equipment are these:

Bryan Adams- Live: (Everything I Do): http://www.filebox.com/ovztce4r90pg
Bryan Adams- Live: Hearts On Fire: http://www.filebox.com/yttw0izxt5j2

Closed indoor Arena that was sold out (6,000 in attendance).

Was sitting on BA's right hand side approximately 15 meters away is memory serves.

I should add that the recording you hear has had its volume increased and undergone a so-called "hard limiting" process.

Is my mic decent? (Stealth is required so the Clip-on feature of the 719 comes in handy when I clip it onto my jacket.

I hope to get at least equal but hopefully better quality with my new gear.

If, in any way, I have violated forum rules by uploading, I do apologize. Hoping someone will be able to help me out.

Ideally, I would like a recorder that records onto a removable media which I can store safely in a safe.

Thanks,

[bryonsos]

Pick up these:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160798.0

And this to power them:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160904.0

And a solid state recorder with both line and mic in. Here in the US, folks favor the Sony M10, but in Europe I believe one of the Olympus decks can be had more affordably.

[nicolaidenmark]

Forgot to add: I live in Denmark so links to UK/EU sites are preferred.

I prefer to buy new.

Here is some info on my current mic. It has been as "a good mic" by a guy working with sound recordings and sound editing:

http://reviews.cnet.com/microphones/sony-ecm-719-microphone/4505-6469_7-30548275.html

and

http://store.sony.com/p/ECM-719/en/p/ECM719



Concert is march 9th. So quick replies appreciated.

[nicolaidenmark]

Is there any way to get some decent mics (and what else is required) in a way that they would be in my hands (Denmark) by march five at the latest?

[nicolaidenmark]

OKM Soundman maybe . . .

Any good and which should I go for for recording live rock concerts?

[earmonger]

OKM mics are going to be way over the budget.

If you can still get those Church Audio mics from the Yard Sale, do it. They are excellent. It's two mics instead of one like your clipon Sony, but they are black (less visible against dark clothes than the Sony) and the sound will improve hugely. 

Buying new will not give you as good a mic at anywhere near the same price--and if you order them directly from Church Audio, it will be weeks before he can get around to building them. Really, grab them, you won't regret it.  People who sell here are generally dependable.

If those mics disappear, you should contact Soundprofessionals and see how quickly they can ship these little tiny mics (eraser-sized)
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2.  Smaller than Church and much stealthier,  a notch lower in sound quality, but still far  better than the ECM-719.

And get a 9v or 12v battery box (or get the one that's also in the Yard Sale) to give you more headroom for loud music.  You'd record mics-->battery box-->Line-in.  The battery box gives the mic extra power so it can handle louder sounds without overloading, and it  makes the mic sound better in general.

For a recorder, look into the Roland R-05, which is a lot cheaper in the EU than the beloved Sony PCM-M10. Or if you have a friend traveling through New York City, they could pick up the Sony PCM-M10 for about $200 (not Euros).

March 5 is a tough deadline. You could always track down a recorder now in Denmark, use your Sony mic and get new microphones after the gig. But if you can grab those Church Audio CA-14 mics, you're well on the way to much improved sound.

[nicolaidenmark]

Buying from Thomann, I can get the PCM-M10 for just 22 euros more then the R05. Which is better?

[achalsey]

Buying from Thomann, I can get the PCM-M10 for just 22 euros more then the R05. Which is better?

Both are quite good for the price.  Most people here will say the M10, but for stealth recording the R05 may have a better design.  Comes down personal preference.  The M10 has a gain wheel on the side that cannot be locked.  This is obviously potentially hazardous in your pocket.  With the R05 all setting can be locked and the record button is big and in the middle.  With the M10 all the buttons are the same size so you have to memorize which is the record button.

[eman]

M10 users haven't been reporting trouble with the gain wheel moving in pocket. It hasn't happened to me yet in a dozen stealth recordings. The battery life is pretty awesome, easily record an all day festival with a pair of rechargeable NiMH's. Also I don't think you are going to use for recording off a board but I believe the M10 will accommodate a pretty hot signal.

[F.O.Bean]

M10

[stevetoney]

get the m10 hands down.  The internal mics will even work well for you until your chutch audio mics arrive.    Believe the others.  So many people have used this same rig and they are all happy... you will be happy too.

[nicolaidenmark]

Can I get same audio quality or better with the M10's internal mics as the clips, I've uploaded?

Thing is: the 300 euro budget includes everything- also mics and so on.

Can someone link to a rock concert, they've recorded using the M10?

And will the internal mics of the M10 be better than my single ECM 719?

[earmonger]

A recording from the PCM-M10 will be as good as the mics going into it and the bitrate (how much computer information is recorded per second of music) of the recording. The PCM-M10 is capable of .wav recording and higher bitrates than your minidisc was. 

The PCM-M10 internals are quite good, and probably have less background noise than the external Sony mic, but the easiest way to find out if you think they are better is to make a recording with both the internals and the ECM-719 and decide which you like best.

Here are a zillion recordings made with the PCM-M10.

http://archive.org/search.php?query=PCM-M10%20AND%20collection%3Aetree

But what you are hearing, overwhelmingly, is the sound of the microphone (and to a much lesser extent the preamp or battery box)  and of the mix in the room.   The recorder itself reproduces what it gets through the input.   

You could also search for recordings made with your mic.

http://archive.org/search.php?query=ECM-719%20AND%20collection%3Aetree

Most dedicated live recordists use external mics, so I don't see an easy way to find good recordings from the built-ins on the PCM-M10--but try them when it arrives. Crank up your stereo and compare the ECM-719 to the built-ins.

[nicolaidenmark]

Regarding storage:

Recording in best possible quality, How many hours will the internal 4 GB be enough for? I worry about the fact that it only says "micro sd" and micro men. stick from sony. I would like it to take other storage media as well. Especially as I have heard that SD cards are unreliable.

Is the M10 very well built (buttons feel like quality etc.)

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

You'll get about 4 hours at 24/48. No need to record at a higher quality. I have a 8GB microSD card in mine, but never really use it. I have found the internal memory to be 100% reliable. The microSD card has a tendency to not seat correctly. The M10 will tell you if it isn't reading it and you'll have to reseat it. Once you have it in there seated correctly you shouldn't have any further issues. You can remove it to transfer data quicker but I leave mine in for peace of mind on the rare occasions I need to use it.

The M10 is pretty solid for a consumer level device. I haven't seen anything nicer except pro level equipment.

I don't think the unlockable gain knob is an issue. It's firm enough that I've never had it move in my pocket, and the ability to lock the buttons and still be able to adjust the levels is very handy for stealth use. I usually hit record 10 minutes or so before the act goes on, and have my levels set to where I'd normally have them. Once the music gets to it's normal loudness I give a quick check to the levels and then put the M10 back in my pocket for the rest of the show.