Topic: Please tapers read this.. Dont need long answer!

[fandelive]

You will also need a battery box, which will give your mics enough juice to prevent THEM from overloading.

I don't think a battery-box will be usefull when plugging the mics into the "mic-in".

[SparkE!]

The battery box is so that the mic elements themselves will not overload in environments with high sound pressure level.  When biased by the 1.5 or so Volts that is provided by the camera's mic port, the mic element's output signal cannot swing far enough without clipping against ground or 1.5 V.  If you increase the power supply voltage to 9 V by using a battery box, its output can swing farther without clipping. So, it can handle the higher sound pressure levels that produce those larger signal voltages.

[greenone]

Hm. So you can use a battery box even on mic in? I have to admit I've never tried it...

[SparkE!]

Hm. So you can use a battery box even on mic in? I have to admit I've never tried it...

Yes, ***BUT*** electret mics generally produce more signal level than your Mic input will like, so you'll probably have to use a 30 dB attenuator to knock your line level signal down to mic level.

So, the battery box keeps you from clipping the mic signal in your mics and the attenuator keeps you from clipping the mic signal in the input to your camera.

[greenone]

Ok, that makes loads of sense. Thanks!!

Now, can you take about six more paragraphs to explain the same thing? Gotta keep your average answer length up, man!

[Roving Sign]

Part of the problem is everybody says "Battery Box" - but this can mean about 5 different things/devices...all of which do similar tasks...some just power the mics...some add gain...some have level pads...some have fixed gain settings...some have all...

Some were designed to feed line level inputs...some just power the mics...hence a lot of confusion...

[SparkE!]

Most "battery boxes" simply provide a bias voltage for the electret element used in the mics and then AC couples the audio signal to whatever device is to receive the mic signal, but you're right that some of them have bass rolloff, adjustable attenuation or even adjustable gain.

[mmedley.]

(Mini-DV's audio is a compressed, MPEG2 format with AGC on the front end.)

Say what? Not that I have ever seen...DV-AVI files use uncompressed wav. You don't compress shit until you render for DVD...and even then you can render with PCM audio instead of mpeg audio.

[SparkE!]

(Mini-DV's audio is a compressed, MPEG2 format with AGC on the front end.)

Say what? Not that I have ever seen...DV-AVI files use uncompressed wav. You don't compress shit until you render for DVD...and even then you can render with PCM audio instead of mpeg audio.

DOH! Yup, you're right.  I was confusing mini-DV and DVD formats and you are also correct that it is possible to render DVD with PCM audio (which is the way I normally do it).  However, the mic audio is AGC'd on most mini-DV cameras.  Even when you get the levels right and don't clip your mic signals, the audio is not as good as other 16 bit PCM recorders, mainly because of the AGC. (There's less dynamic range.)  On my DCR-TRV38, the audio is also noticeably noisier than the audio that I record with a UA-5 and NJB3.

Still... you get better audio on your mini-DV when you use an external, powered mic and an attenuator.  It sounds WAAAYYY better than just using the internal mic on the camera.

[mmedley.]

I've never run a side by side comparison, but I know alot of Panic shows from the summer were vtaped with external audio "on-the-fly." I 100% believe you that something screwy goes on using a mic or line-in on the camera. It will be interesting to see if there is a big difference. I don't even own a mini-DV camera, but do they all have mic in or do some have a line-in as well? I use the tried and true way...all editing and mastering done in post...

[SparkE!]

Line in on a camera only works when you are recording from an external video source.  If you are recording through the lens, then you only have a mic input, if one exists.  A lot of the mini-DV cameras have no mic input.  That's one of the things that I was careful to look for when I was looking for cameras.  Only a handful of the Digital-8 cameras have mic inputs too.

If you are only recording audio on a video tape, then I think you can run line in and just play like you have an external video source.  I don't know if the camera would get upset about never getting video synch, though.  I wonder if it would shut down after awhile if it was not getting video synch?

[fandelive]

Hm. So you can use a battery box even on mic in? I have to admit I've never tried it...

Yes, ***BUT*** electret mics generally produce more signal level than your Mic input will like, so you'll probably have to use a 30 dB attenuator to knock your line level signal down to mic level.

So, the battery box keeps you from clipping the mic signal in your mics and the attenuator keeps you from clipping the mic signal in the input to your camera.

I already tried it on a Sony MD (we all know the quality of Sony's MDs and DATs "mic-in" preamps...) and got brickwalling.
I don't have an attenuator cable, but it might work.

[Sindre]

I think I will buy that mic I showed you on the last page.. Aslong as the audio becomes better, Im happy

[firmdragon]

in my experience, the AGC isn't thaaat bad.  i've plugged sonics and okms straight in and haven't had a distorto yet.  sure the dynamic range sucks, but if you cared that much about audio (relative to video) you'd have an external audio source.

if you're going to low ball on mics.  scour ebay for a realistic electret 33-1065.  that is the absolute cheapie mic that i would recommend.  i'd look toward sound pros before giant squid.  but hey it's not my $$ to waste.