Topic: Iriver 120 with plenty of space shuts off due to "disk full"

[divamum]

any ideas?  I'm really beginning ot wonder if this unit is considering checkin' out on me (sob).  I had actually CHECKED it for space last night (and deleted some stuff) just to be SURE it had room.   It rec'd 55 minutes and switched off   When I tested it after I realised this, it kept flashing up a "disk full" error message.

I've now scandisked it, rebooted and am recording a test to see if it shuts down again, but...

I'm running Rockbox.

Oh, maybe another clue: since I swithced to RB (and ONLY since then) sometimes it hangs when it boots.

Any ideas? 

[Sanjay]

both myself and Dgodwin had this problem friday at teh same time.  You cannot simply delete files, you must reformat each time you empty the 120.  Your problems will go away.

[dgodwin]

To further clarify, I think that if you delete the files while the player is connected to the computer, you might run into problems.  If you use the player itself to delete a file or folder, you'll be ok.  Thats my guess though. 

[divamum]

AHA!  Ok, that makes sense... presumably also why post-scandisk it works.

Do you know if you have to do a FULL format each time? I will if necessary but boy... it's a pain!! I have deleted files from the unit via the computer before and not faced this problem, but since others are having exactly similar issues, it seems clear there's something going on... Does it only happen when moving rockbox files from teh recordings directory? I still record mp3s for non-performance stuff, and thus use iriver firmware for those - have never had a problem when moving/deleting.

All further info welcomed

In the meantime... anything I need to know about formatting? Have never actually done one (yikes!) - presumably it wipes everything so I need to move all data files to somehwere else. And then do I have to reinstall iriver and rockbox firmware? Are there instructions on this somewhere somebody can point me to (is it in the handy-dandy iriver faq that's being developed?)

[Sanjay]

No you don't have to do a full format each time, however you should only delete files through the iriver, not through the computer.  When you delete them through the computer they stay there but are hidden.  This is probably why you haven't had problems so far since there was still room each time.  Formatting isn't that much of a pain. 

Copy all folders from the rockbox (except your "recordings" folder)

paste them somewhere safe

right click on the iriver in "my computer"

do a quick format.

paste it all the files you copied back into the iriver

start it up, all your settings will be like they were before but with lots of space.

To check your disk space go to the rockbox info section on in your menu, it will tell you.

[china_rider]

I just thought I would mention that I have filled up the HD several times and always have used the computer to move the files.  I have not formated the drive since I got the iRiver.  Maybe the version of Rockbox you guys are using?  I'm using the latest build that has the recording enhancement pack.  If this is a widespread problem I am not seeing it.

EDIT: Maybe it is because I choose to move and not copy/delete the files.

[Sanjay]

I am not using the latest build, i was using a pre-optical one

dgodwin was using the optical one, but i dont know if its the latest.

I know his saved the file when it ran out of space, mine did not though i did a checkdisk /f or whatever and got it back

[divamum]

Really stoopid question:  how do you delete them directly from the iriver? I've always done it when it's connected to the puter...

(I SAID it was a really dumb question!!! lol)

[divamum]

I am not using the latest build, i was using a pre-optical one

dgodwin was using the optical one, but i dont know if its the latest.

I know his saved the file when it ran out of space, mine did not though i did a checkdisk /f or whatever and got it back

Mine saved what was there, it just shut down at 55 minutes (despite having nearly 6g of space)

Also, how much space does it need to run? In other words, I assume like a computer hard drive it needs "turnaround room" so will never actually record to its full capacity, right? How much does one HAVE to leave empty?

[Sanjay]

Really stoopid question:  how do you delete them directly from the iriver? I've always done it when it's connected to the puter...

(I SAID it was a really dumb question!!! lol)

good question!  I didn;t know but i just experimented

when your browsing the recordings directory, highlight what you want to delete then press the center joystick down and the A/B button on the bottom right at the same time, this will bring you to a menu where the option to delete is.

[Sanjay]

it only needs a little space, now did the 6 gigs show when looking at it on the computer or looking at it through the rockbox info selection...

[china_rider]

The following link will always take to to the most recent stable verion of Rockbox with the recording enhancement pack.  It is the build with the REP that the author of the REP is running.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/martin.scarratt/Rockbox/rockbox.zip

Even if you don't run the REP I would suggest upgrading... There have been alot of improvements/fixes since pre optical builds.

[cgrooves]

Really stoopid question:  how do you delete them directly from the iriver? I've always done it when it's connected to the puter...

(I SAID it was a really dumb question!!! lol)

good question!  I didn;t know but i just experimented

when your browsing the recordings directory, highlight what you want to delete then press the center joystick down and the A/B button on the bottom right at the same time, this will bring you to a menu where the option to delete is.

Or, just highlight the track and push down the joystick for a couple of seconds and the menu will come up.

Also, I like to format my h140 using the iRiver firmware instead of windows.  Get the most recent iRiver firmware (1.66) and go to menu>general> format>yes.  iRiver added the format option to their firmware due to problems when trying to format h140's via windows.  (May not even be an issue with the h120's)

[divamum]

it only needs a little space, now did the 6 gigs show when looking at it on the computer or looking at it through the rockbox info selection...

Through explorer...

Am now putting eveything into a folder on the desktop and will run the quick format as y ou suggested.  It's never had one, so probably a good idea just as far as "housekeeping". Sure hope it stabilisis it - I LOVE being able to use the iriver for all my recording (to the point I'm considering selling my jb3).

[divamum]

Also, I like to format my h140 using the iRiver firmware instead of windows.  Get the most recent iRiver firmware (1.66) and go to menu>general> format>yes.  iRiver added the format option to their firmware due to problems when trying to format h140's via windows.  (May not even be an issue with the h120's)

Can you restore everything the way Sanjay described - ie copy it all to a safe place, then just copy it all back without having to reflash or reload RB?

[cgrooves]

Also, I like to format my h140 using the iRiver firmware instead of windows.  Get the most recent iRiver firmware (1.66) and go to menu>general> format>yes.  iRiver added the format option to their firmware due to problems when trying to format h140's via windows.  (May not even be an issue with the h120's)

Can you restore everything the way Sanjay described - ie copy it all to a safe place, then just copy it all back without having to reflash or reload RB?

Yes.  Bootloader stays on.  Just copy the daily build (2 files) your using to a safe place and put them back into the root directory after the format.

[petur]

hold your horses! No formatting needed!

The problem you're seeing is that when deleting files through the usb connection (windows/linux/mac/...), rockbox doesn't know about the freed space.
For speed reasons the disk isn't scanned on bootup, and rockbox thinks the clusters are still occupied. We're still looking for a way to get round this, maybe do a scan in the background or set a flag somewhere when we suspect a scan is needed.

To make rockbox rescan the drive:

go to Menu -> Info ->Rockbox Info and tap the play button.
You should see a Scanning disk message.

Sorry for the inconvenience this quirck causes

[George]

hold your horses! No formatting needed!

The problem you're seeing is that when deleting files through the usb connection (windows/linux/mac/...), rockbox doesn't know about the freed space.
For speed reasons the disk isn't scanned on bootup, and rockbox thinks the clusters are still occupied. We're still looking for a way to get round this, maybe do a scan in the background or set a flag somewhere when we suspect a scan is needed.

To make rockbox rescan the drive:

go to Menu -> Info ->Rockbox Info and tap the play button.
You should see a Scanning disk message.

Sorry for the inconvenience this quirck causes

I didn't see a scanning disk message, but my battery life shot up a bit.  I'm using an older rockbox, dated early April.

[Javier Cinakowski]

Are the I-Rivers prone to overheating like the JB3's.  Could I leave a I-river in a camera bag with the lid shut for a whole show without overheating?  How is the ADC in the I-River?  Good enough?

[petur]

Are the I-Rivers prone to overheating like the JB3's.  Could I leave a I-river in a camera bag with the lid shut for a whole show without overheating?  How is the ADC in the I-River?  Good enough?

I'd be surprised if the iriver would heat up. Not with the (low) levels of battery consumption anyway.
I always leave my h340 in a closed bag.

[petur]

I didn't see a scanning disk message, but my battery life shot up a bit.  I'm using an older rockbox, dated early April.

You need to press play once you're in the rockbox info screen. At least it's play on my h340, should be the same on an h1x0

[whatboutbob]

Are the I-Rivers prone to overheating like the JB3's.  Could I leave a I-river in a camera bag with the lid shut for a whole show without overheating?  How is the ADC in the I-River?  Good enough?

No.

Yes.

Reasonable, but not brilliant (see shaggy's adc comparison here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=67816.0).

I think so.

As to the question that started this thread...I really should add it to the faq.  It has caught out quite a few people now (myself included). Edit: Added.

Petur's answer above nails it.

gloco: For older builds I think its still in the debug menu - drive info, free space, click joystick...but my memory might just be making that up.

[divamum]

Wow - I feel like I asked a reasonable question now!!       Thanks for adding to the FAQ (and thanks for doing the FAQ in the first place! +t)

As to the overheating question:  now that I'm using it as my "set and go" recorder, it's sometimes running for 3hrs at a stretch in a closed bag (handbag I use as a gear bag) and as yet hasn't heated up enough to shut down. In fact, yesterday was the only recording issue I've had with it since some teething problems when I first installed rockbox.  I'd say that the heating/long run time issue is far less a problem than with the JB3, at least in my experience so far.

Agree with the assessment on the pre - it's entirely serviceable, if not brilliant. Warmer than the Reactive I use with the JB3.   Sorry - you said ADC rather than pre. (need more coffee).  Didn't I read somewhere once that the iRiver and JB3 actually use the same ADC circuitry?

HTH.

And thanks again to all who have responded in this thread - I record full length shows (eg operas) and then have to delete them to make space for hte next one - I do this a lot,  so this is very very HELPFUL! 

[whatboutbob]

I challenge ppl to overheat the iriver without an open flame (or a MT charging next to it).  I've run it in my pocket at an all day festival in >100 degree temps without a worry.

Didn't I read somewhere once that the iRiver and JB3 actually use the same ADC circuitry?

Yup, they do...but to my ears the JB3 sounds marginally better in the ADC comparison I mentioned above.  I guess there's more that goes into the ADC than just the chip...or I could just be hearing things.

[divamum]

hold your horses! No formatting needed!

The problem you're seeing is that when deleting files through the usb connection (windows/linux/mac/...), rockbox doesn't know about the freed space.
For speed reasons the disk isn't scanned on bootup, and rockbox thinks the clusters are still occupied. We're still looking for a way to get round this, maybe do a scan in the background or set a flag somewhere when we suspect a scan is needed.

To make rockbox rescan the drive:

go to Menu -> Info ->Rockbox Info and tap the play button.
You should see a Scanning disk message.

Sorry for the inconvenience this quirck causes

Hmm.... nothing happened - no "disk scanning" msg. However, I am in an older build (I think it's from March - 060323-2116) so maybe it's time to switch it. THAT SAID, when I first loaded RB, I had problems with some of hte other allegedly "stable" builds - this seemed to be the only one I tried that didn't cauase me problems.  Which is a recommended build out there currently?  (Btw, the one I have has the REP I believe)

[Scooter]

is the H120 REP build ready for prime time??  a few posts on the forum speak of drop-outs??

[petur]

Hmm.... nothing happened - no "disk scanning" msg. However, I am in an older build (I think it's from March - 060323-2116) so maybe it's time to switch it. THAT SAID, when I first loaded RB, I had problems with some of hte other allegedly "stable" builds - this seemed to be the only one I tried that didn't cauase me problems.  Which is a recommended build out there currently?  (Btw, the one I have has the REP I believe)

There's a relativly recent REP version available in the rockbox forum
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=2513.0

The current versions are quite stable now, recording analog will give you more battery life than the version you have now.

[George]

The message still didn't pop up for me petur.  But its ok, I think it's about time i upgrade the firmware to a newer rockbox version. 

[dgodwin]

What exactly is in the REP that's beneficial to a taper going line-in from a mic preamp?

[petur]

What exactly is in the REP that's beneficial to a taper going line-in from a mic preamp?

It's explained on the first page of the thread I linked to. In short it's:
- bigger fonts
- AGC (multi-mode, I use it as safety net to lower gain if the signal gets too hot)
- extra button mappings to reach the recording screen quicker
- more filesplitting options and buttonmappings
(the list gets smaller as more stuff makes it into the official build)

[dgodwin]

What exactly is in the REP that's beneficial to a taper going line-in from a mic preamp?

It's explained on the first page of the thread I linked to. In short it's:
- bigger fonts
- AGC (multi-mode, I use it as safety net to lower gain if the signal gets too hot)
- extra button mappings to reach the recording screen quicker
- more filesplitting options and buttonmappings
(the list gets smaller as more stuff makes it into the official build)

+T for you, -t for me being lazy